no not really im just asking for an argument against the annoying christians who say "but what if all the spirits and angels you talk to are just demons in disguise"I used to cast spells that seemed too effective when I had spirit companions and it always made me feel that they were involved, probably were. to know for sure is to give license to depart, perform a banishing ritual so nothing can interfere and try out the spell/ritual.
I'm not sure if I fully understood properly so apologies in advance.
It may not work for you, but my reply would probably be what Spock said to McCoy in Star Trek IV when McCoy asked him what it was like to be dead: "We lack a common frame of reference."no not really im just asking for an argument against the annoying christians who say "but what if all the spirits and angels you talk to are just demons in disguise"
But what if all the spirits you talk to are just in your head and you're actually talking to yourself?no not really im just asking for an argument against the annoying christians who say "but what if all the spirits and angels you talk to are just demons in disguise"
Yes, and to the Greeks (as to many folk) daimones came in many different types, from sublime to malicious.But what if all the spirits you talk to are just in your head and you're actually talking to yourself?
The All is the mind, so I guess technically they are all in your head, from a certain point of view anyways.
Honestly people always forget the source of the word demon is rooted in Greek, transliterated as daemon.
How do they know their god is not just demons in disguise? Maybe the real Creator is someone else entirely, and their god is deceiving them into worshipping himself under false pretenses?no not really im just asking for an argument against the annoying christians who say "but what if all the spirits and angels you talk to are just demons in disguise"
How do you know that anything is real? Once you question your beliefs to the point where you can't even discern what is real about them, said beliefs collapse and all that is left is emptiness and self-doubt. It is good to question things, but only so far as you are able to maintain your sense of self.How do they know their god is not just demons in disguise? Maybe the real Creator is someone else entirely, and their god is deceiving them into worshipping himself under false pretenses?
Gregorious asked for an argument against hostile christians, I gave him one. I don't see how Zhuang Zhou and butterflies are relevant.How do you know that anything is real? Once you question your beliefs to the point where you can't even discern what is real about them, said beliefs collapse and all that is left is emptiness and self-doubt. It is good to question things, but only so far as you are able to maintain your sense of self.
Once, Zhuang Zhou dreamed he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering about, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know that he was Zhuang Zhou. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuang Zhou. But he didn't know if he was Zhuang Zhou who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming that he was Zhuang Zhou.
I reckon he just meant there's no reliable criterion for deciding the question at hand. At which point one can either file the question and get on with life & magick, or one can plunk down by the roadside and work on his philosophy PhD.Gregorious asked for an argument against hostile christians, I gave him one. I don't see how Zhuang Zhou and butterflies are relevant.
All good points. Your pastor there reminds of me of an anecdote Philip Kapleau cites about a 19th century Englishman in Japan. Seeing Zen monks at meditation, he declared "They do nothing all day except sit eyes closed and thinking lewd thoughts." A highly revealing answer about the speaker, I aver. Something similar might well be afoot with the guy whose emptied mind immediately houses demons.Such people come from a worldview where demons lurk everywhere to confound unwary true believers. I remember reading once about a Christian fundie whose pastor preached against empty-mind meditation because he firmly believed that all sorts of demons would inevitalby creep in to fill that mental void. This is in stark contrast to our shared conviction that you need to conjure a spirit first before it comes calling (I don't know what to make of cases of unwelcome possession à la "The Exorcist" though… are those parasites of a sort?), which is a knack that has to be learned first and which many find rather difficult.
A glib retort would be "How do you know it's not just all angels?", but that would fail to take into account the Christian fundie instinct that they are constantly beset by evil spirits at every turn, most likely a refusal to see temptations, character flaws, 'sinful' impulses arising from their own sex drive, etc. as internal forces and externalise them as independent malevolent beings instead - "Demons are to blame, nothing to do with me!"- come to think of it, this is also not an altogether correct assumption because they most likely think of themselves as sinners, too, with eternal damnation always hovering over their head. Their belief in ominipresent evil, therefore, has them coming and going so they always feel threatened both from the outside and the inside.
This is probably especially true when such people are Protestant and didn't grow up in a strong tradition of angel worship as practices by Roman Catholicism or Orthodox Churches, so demons are most likely the only spirits they know and believe in.
Also the Spitting Image sketch with The Archbishop of Canterbury and Mary Whitehouse (a notorious anti-filth campaigner)All good points. Your pastor there reminds of me of an anecdote Philip Kapleau cites about a 19th century Englishman in Japan. Seeing Zen monks at meditation, he declared "They do nothing all day except sit eyes closed and thinking lewd thoughts." A highly revealing answer about the speaker, I aver. Something similar might well be afoot with the guy whose emptied mind immediately houses demons.
Zen monks in meditation thinking nothing but lewd thoughts!!All good points. Your pastor there reminds of me of an anecdote Philip Kapleau cites about a 19th century Englishman in Japan. Seeing Zen monks at meditation, he declared "They do nothing all day except sit eyes closed and thinking lewd thoughts." A highly revealing answer about the speaker, I aver. Something similar might well be afoot with the guy whose emptied mind immediately houses demons.
Rather more elegantly, Jonathan Swift noted, "It is impossible to reason a man out of a position he never reasoned his way into."Also the Spitting Image sketch with The Archbishop of Canterbury and Mary Whitehouse (a notorious anti-filth campaigner)
Arch: "But Mary, you're seeing filth that isn't even there!"
Mary (slaps him): "How dare you imply that I have nice breasts!"
As for arguing against these people; as Frank Zappa said: "The only way you're gonna get someone to agree with you, is if they agree with you already"