[Opinion] How does the spirit world work?

[Jk666]

Hi all,

hope you’re having a good day/night.

I think that magic/sorcery/spirits work similarly, but some people distinguish between them.

1 theory I like is the hardware/software analogy to spirit/matter.

what do you say and why?

Why do some workings succeed while others fail?

what are the essentials in magic?

Cheers,
John.

 

[Jk666]

. They're not stupid, they're trying to stay out of trouble.

They have their lives & I have mine, just as in a streak of bad luck you can get shot walking near a person being mugged.

If you wish to stop doing magic, go right ahead. I won’t it’s my life. if the shit hits the fan so be it.

from personal experience the worst kind of ppl are god’s folk self righteous gossiping ’einsteins’

 

[Konsciencia]

@Konsciencia
"As for myself, I have direct access to my Spiritual Guides, and I don't need to summon them."
I am happy to hear that it sounds very bracing, when I was little I was trained by my spirit guides from time to time also. When I got older and after I verified my spirit lineage, it turned out to be not such a happy story, because, the mage side of my ilk had all but been exterminated or driven crazy by the RC and so with no one left to teach me, the spirits of my ancestors, had chipped in to help me out.

That's wonderful! Merlinscloak!! I am very happy for you!

 

[OrdinaryTourist]

They have their lives & I have mine, just as in a streak of bad luck you can get shot walking near a person being mugged.

If you wish to stop doing magic, go right ahead. I won’t it’s my life. if the shit hits the fan so be it.

from personal experience the worst kind of ppl are god’s folk self righteous gossiping ’einsteins’

They've been pretty nice to me, but that's just anecdotal. I have no problem with practicing magic, but the expectation that everyone should be alright with and should personally adapt to such a demonstrably chaotic and dangerous lifestyle strikes me as conceited. You've chosen this, we all have. There are consequences. You'd do well to remember those Christians are sorcerers as well, though they'd bristle at the implication. The old women who loyally attends her local church at the predetermined time every week, clutching a rosary and sincerely praying to her God as she sits alone in the pew is likely a much more potent magic user than many pentagram sketching eternal adolescents could ever hope to be, whether either are aware of it or not.

 

[Jk666]

They've been pretty nice to me, but that's just anecdotal. I have no problem with practicing magic, but the expectation that everyone should be alright with and should personally adapt to such a demonstrably chaotic and dangerous lifestyle strikes me as conceited. You've chosen this, we all have. There are consequences. You'd do well to remember those Christians are sorcerers as well, though they'd bristle at the implication. The old women who loyally attends her local church at the predetermined time every week, clutching a rosary and sincerely praying to her God as she sits alone in the pew is likely a much more potent magic user than many pentagram sketching eternal adolescents could ever hope to be, whether either are aware of it or not.

lets Agree to disagree

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Hi all,

hope you’re having a good day/night.

I think that magic/sorcery/spirits work similarly, but some people distinguish between them.

1 theory I like is the hardware/software analogy to spirit/matter.

what do you say and why?

Why do some workings succeed while others fail?

what are the essentials in magic?

Cheers,
John.

People have to distinguish between them, because, one they are not all the same, and two, there are actual subclasses of the umbrella term magic from an anthropological viewpoint (you can verify this with any textbook of Cultural Anthropology or Anthropology of Religion - both of which were course I took among many when going for Anthro before stupidly switching to Computer Sci. I digress.
Sympathetic Magic - Essentially low magick using correspondences, what stands for is. Example - colored candles with or without scented oils on an altar.
Contagion Magic - DNA directly from a person used mainly for cursing - an example is taking feces of a target, wrapping in a banana tree leaf and performing a curse, then hangin it in a target area. Yes, this actually occurs In some indigenous and mainstream religions.
Imitative Magic - Imitating the real deal before facing it to ensure victory. Mainly tribal peoples. Example are Native American Rain dances.

Thats magic.

Sorcery - This is where Im fuzzy on a good definition that distinguishes it from a combination of magic and witchcraft to me.

Spirits, there is a good section on the spirit world in Dion Fortunes Spiritsm book, as well as Millenial Theory books.

Success, Failure, and Essentials.
This is really the meat of the questions, but we are working within the context of the Spirit world.
First of all, substantial contact must occur on a repetitive basis. Or, in contact of low magick, ritual must be done often, generally in a a single accord of intent.
Second, you must have a measurable goal in mind, or something that should never have actually occurred in your life, such as something manifesting contrary to a synastry chart.
Third, it has to be maintained, and turns into a relationship.

Failure, well, browse my journals, and see my lack of efforts of concentration.

Expectations/Essentials - See Benjamin Rowe Basick Magic or A Complete Course in Magic by Kuriakos. Short and to the point.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

They've been pretty nice to me, but that's just anecdotal. I have no problem with practicing magic, but the expectation that everyone should be alright with and should personally adapt to such a demonstrably chaotic and dangerous lifestyle strikes me as conceited. You've chosen this, we all have. There are consequences. You'd do well to remember those Christians are sorcerers as well, though they'd bristle at the implication. The old women who loyally attends her local church at the predetermined time every week, clutching a rosary and sincerely praying to her God as she sits alone in the pew is likely a much more potent magic user than many pentagram sketching eternal adolescents could ever hope to be, whether either are aware of it or not.

I agree with this, I know some Christians so into the Spirit of God and following the written will, without being legalistic, are the most potent prayer warriors Ive ever witnessed. Then there is a the subgroup that uses slight folk magic as well.

A chaotic life is fine for some, not for me.

In terms of death and the afterlife, its possible in one book that only 144k people will be saved, and the rest swim eternally in the Lake of Fire, despite other sales pitches about the world of Gehenna.

That is the Christian viewpoint of worst case scenario.

Now, what I try is to see the values inherent in the system, and if I mesh with those, then I try to live those values. It just so happens I have no conflict of the values that Christ taught. Who would and why? Love, compassion, humility, service, devotion, truth.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I dunno when I was just starting out I felt I’d not enough authority/willpower/magical ability to make rituals work & most of them failed.

basically from my experience you need to get down in the trenches & summon.

dirty and quick and objectively seeing if your life changes you get fast reliable results

I have and will keep doing so. There are several barriers to authentic contact in my opinion. My goal is working Planetary and Angelic magic, and trying to create positive change in the world, rather than a world of violence and decay.

 

[Mider2009]

lets Agree to disagree

Both of you are correct, the ritual and belief they place in the church gives them power but I have also met many hypocrites IMO it lessons the power

in Judaism there is something called a Minyan 10 righteous men (woman are not unfit sept by tradition) and these ten individuals join together to pray

I think a Rabbi once described it as a miniature hive mind, yet how many of them are actually concentrating on the prayer etc to give it power the same goes for these fundamentalist churches where they likely have very little true faith in God

But for the little lady with the rosary, Jesus and or the Virgin Mary can become a powerful archetype they all focus on and empower

 

[OrdinaryTourist]

Both of you are correct, the ritual and belief they place in the church gives them power but I have also met many hypocrites IMO it lessons the power

in Judaism there is something called a Minyan 10 righteous men (woman are not unfit sept by tradition) and these ten individuals join together to pray

I think a Rabbi once described it as a miniature hive mind, yet how many of them are actually concentrating on the prayer etc to give it power the same goes for these fundamentalist churches where they likely have very little true faith in God

But for the little lady with the rosary, Jesus and or the Virgin Mary can become a powerful archetype they all focus on and empower

I get what you're saying but I still don't think it's hypocritical for people like Christians, who practice a relatively safe form of magic that, at worst, can give you delusions, to hate and fear practices that are obviously substantially more volatile. It's basic self preservation for them. Of course they'd dislike people who willingly welcome potentially negative forces into their lives for the sake of power. And even beyond that, practitioners of the darker side of magic have a habit of purposely making themselves unappealing, whether personality wise or visually. It is not the responsibility of other people to like you unconditionally. I constantly see this behavior, especially with younger occultists. It's either the result of low self awareness or pure spite and the desire to get a rise out of others. Really, they don't do themselves any favors.

 

[Mider2009]

I get what you're saying but I still don't think it's hypocritical for people like Christians, who practice a relatively safe form of magic that, at worst, can give you delusions, to hate and fear practices that are obviously substantially more volatile. It's basic self preservation for them. Of course they'd dislike people who willingly welcome potentially negative forces into their lives for the sake of power. And even beyond that, practitioners of the darker side of magic have a habit of purposely making themselves unappealing, whether personality wise or visually. It is not the responsibility of other people to like you unconditionally. I constantly see this behavior, especially with younger occultists. It's either the result of low self awareness or pure spite and the desire to get a rise out of others. Really, they don't do themselves any favors.

thats true but not my point, my point is that both use magic

 

[OrdinaryTourist]

thats true but not my point, my point is that both use magic

Right. I agree.

 

[Mider2009]

I get what you're saying but I still don't think it's hypocritical for people like Christians, who practice a relatively safe form of magic that, at worst, can give you delusions, to hate and fear practices that are obviously substantially more volatile. It's basic self preservation for them. Of course they'd dislike people who willingly welcome potentially negative forces into their lives for the sake of power. And even beyond that, practitioners of the darker side of magic have a habit of purposely making themselves unappealing, whether personality wise or visually. It is not the responsibility of other people to like you unconditionally. I constantly see this behavior, especially with younger occultists. It's either the result of low self awareness or pure spite and the desire to get a rise out of others. Really, they don't do themselves any favors.

But to your point yes I agree

too many edge lords, and nothing wrong with staying safe, not every spirit is for everyone even the angelic type. I’ve seen people get hurt messing with Saints