[Help] How many demons to work with and how many times should I invoke?

[Shaman]

I have finally gotten over my fear of invoking goetia demons and am much more comfortable with invoking them. I was previously only comfortable invoking and working with my succubus but I realize there's nothing to be afraid of. So I am ready to take this occult seriously and dedicate a lot of time to it.

So my questions summarized are:

1. How many demons to work with?

2. How many times should I invoke them over a time period?

 

[Viktor]

How many times should I invoke them over a time period?

I know the answer but was not sure how to lay it out so went on to google out my terms and found this:

The perception of time in the spiritual realm is often described as being non-linear or outside of our human understanding of time. Spirit guides, angels, and ascended masters are believed to exist in a state where time does not function in the same way as it does in the physical realm. Rather than being a matter of time moving faster or slower, it's more about an experience of timelessness or being beyond the constraints of time as we understand it. Different spiritual traditions and beliefs may have their own interpretations of this concept, but the general idea is that the spiritual realm operates outside of our conventional understanding of time.

It's so nicely told and so true, our physical sense of time is so unrelated to time in spiritual world because there is no time in spiritual world.
Therefore invocation interval entirely depends on you.

But regardless I would refrain from invoking demons too often simply because it might become boring to me (not to demons)

How many demons to work with?

Not sure but I think as long as those demons are not in the opposite of each other or as long as you don't lay out contradictory demands it doesn't matter.

 

[Mannimarco]

1. How many demons to work with?

2. How many times should I invoke them over a time period?

These will both be personal to you.
Work with the ones that want to work with you, that you also like working with. Just don't over do it. Maintaining a lot of entity relationship can become overwhelming very quickly. The idea of pathworking is helpful here, where you work with one intensely for a time, learn their lessons, receive their alchemies, then take a break, and repeat with another entity.
Invoking especially will always have some degree of alchemizing effect on your energy body. Everyone has their own limits here. I'm sure your succubus can guide you.
Best of luck!

 

[Shaman]

Thanks for the replies! I also wanted to know if I found an entity I want to work with, do I just tell them I want to work with them and that's it? Also is it considered working with an entity if the only thing you do is ask and don't give back though? I read that demons don't need offerings for granting wishes.

 

[Viktor]

do I just tell them I want to work with them and that's it?

Normally you follow a ritual precisely, there is plenty of occult books detailing invocation rituals.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Thanks for the replies! I also wanted to know if I found an entity I want to work with, do I just tell them I want to work with them and that's it? Also is it considered working with an entity if the only thing you do is ask and don't give back though? I read that demons don't need offerings for granting wishes.

patron spirits is what you're asking. Look up Demons of Magick. Or Qabalah, Qlippoth and Goetic Magick if you wish to take on Qlippoth vs Goetia.
You should know already it's (LHP) a harder path than the RHP.
They will expect offerings through public praise, specific offerings, candles lit for their seals. Su casa me casa iow.

 

[Mannimarco]

Thanks for the replies! I also wanted to know if I found an entity I want to work with, do I just tell them I want to work with them and that's it? Also is it considered working with an entity if the only thing you do is ask and don't give back though? I read that demons don't need offerings for granting wishes.

Well no, you ask them if they want to work with you. I would suggest doing divination on how it is likely to go, and/or asking a guide/familiar for advice beforehand. If they do want to work with you, then you negotiate what that is going to be for, the boundaries, timeframe, and what you are going to give them in return. If you can come to an agreement that you are both happy with, great.

Entities have, on a couple rare occasions, refused reciprocal gifts for helping me with one time spells or healings. But I always offer something back, and always will. The only time they don't need offerings is if they say they dont need offerings. I offer far more for granting wishes than for helping me do something i'm doing already.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Thanks for the replies! I also wanted to know if I found an entity I want to work with, do I just tell them I want to work with them and that's it? Also is it considered working with an entity if the only thing you do is ask and don't give back though? I read that demons don't need offerings for granting wishes.

Keep in mind, not every demon is all powerful. Some will say as well that want to work with you, when they want to destroy you.
Which leads to temperament. Some will only take a Solomonic approach out of respect, some are hostile to it, some are indifferent.
Which leads to the grapevine. piss off one spirit and all spirits know about it. It can this be viewed more as respect and trust vs gimme gimme gimme.

 

[Shaman]

Keep in mind, not every demon is all powerful. Some will say as well that want to work with you, when they want to destroy you.
Which leads to temperament. Some will only take a Solomonic approach out of respect, some are hostile to it, some are indifferent.
Which leads to the grapevine. piss off one spirit and all spirits know about it. It can this be viewed more as respect and trust vs gimme gimme gimme.

Interesting that you mention that some of them want to destroy you. I definitely will be more careful and it's always been fishy how demons were supposedly kind and loving to me. I summoned vepar and I kinda was afraid of him and now he does not answer my invocations. I invoked him because he was supposedly fond of me (many positive cards) but I read he can kill in a gruesome way so I kinda chickened out lol. It will take some time to overcome my fear of "dangerous" demons.

Edit: Vepar is sending me the sadness card after I asked how he feels after meeting me

Post automatically merged: Mar 9, 2024

Well no, you ask them if they want to work with you. I would suggest doing divination on how it is likely to go, and/or asking a guide/familiar for advice beforehand. If they do want to work with you, then you negotiate what that is going to be for, the boundaries, timeframe, and what you are going to give them in return. If you can come to an agreement that you are both happy with, great.

Entities have, on a couple rare occasions, refused reciprocal gifts for helping me with one time spells or healings. But I always offer something back, and always will. The only time they don't need offerings is if they say they dont need offerings. I offer far more for granting wishes than for helping me do something i'm doing already.

Yea I reached out to vepar and a couple other demons today it went well. I just kinda was afraid of vepar because of his goetia description but the divination I have done says he's very fond of me, perhaps of all the goetia he likes me the most. He sent me the sadness card after he realized I was afraid of him.

 

[Mannimarco]

Interesting that you mention that some of them want to destroy you. I definitely will be more careful and it's always been fishy how demons were supposedly kind and loving to me. I summoned vepar and I kinda was afraid of him and now he does not answer my invocations. I invoked him because he was supposedly fond of me (many positive cards) but I read he can kill in a gruesome way so I kinda chickened out lol. It will take some time to overcome my fear of "dangerous" demons.

Being afraid of demons is probably the worst possible frame of reference to have contact with them. If you are afraid of him and he is not answering your invocations, he is fond of you. If he wasn't fond of you, it could be much worse than that.

Many entities will want to destroy the occasional human, including angels and deities. This is not terribly common, but is not at all unique to demons.

 

[Shaman]

Being afraid of demons is probably the worst possible frame of reference to have contact with them. If you are afraid of him and he is not answering your invocations, he is fond of you. If he wasn't fond of you, it could be much worse than that.

Many entities will want to destroy the occasional human, including angels and deities. This is not terribly common, but is not at all unique to demons.

These goetia demons really do remind me of my succubus. At first I was afraid of her and she would send me the same exact card signifying sadness, but of course later on I realized she means no harm and has good intentions. I think I will just take a break, I really want to put all my time in to this demon for now... the reason I wanted to invoke him again was to apologize and explain why I was afraid. In the middle of the reading, he obviously knew I was afraid as he sent 2 cards signifying anxiety and one card signifying "unhappiness, shattered dreams".

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

These goetia demons really do remind me of my succubus. At first I was afraid of her and she would send me the same exact card signifying sadness, but of course later on I realized she means no harm and has good intentions. I think I will just take a break, I really want to put all my time in to this demon for now... the reason I wanted to invoke him again was to apologize and explain why I was afraid. In the middle of the reading, he obviously knew I was afraid as he sent 2 cards signifying anxiety and one card signifying "unhappiness, shattered dreams".

It's all about the approach ... They expect to be respected, offer help and be honored for it. Some entities will want to harm no matter how pious or impious, how responsible or irresponsible, how honorable or dishonorable you are.
Don't let my words sweat you.
Remember - you are in command, and some will respect you for commanding them.
Some will respect you for being a friend to them.

Post automatically merged: Mar 9, 2024

Just don't be an aloof dick to any of them.

 

[Xenophon]

I have finally gotten over my fear of invoking goetia demons and am much more comfortable with invoking them. I was previously only comfortable invoking and working with my succubus but I realize there's nothing to be afraid of. So I am ready to take this occult seriously and dedicate a lot of time to it.

So my questions summarized are:

1. How many demons to work with?

2. How many times should I invoke them over a time period?

I seem to recall Lon Milo DuQuette advising folks to work with one at a time. That means one demon at a time and one working at any given period. He seems to imply calling on them one time then awaiting results.

Also, do you mean "evoke" or "invoke"? There's a big difference.

 

[Shaman]

I seem to recall Lon Milo DuQuette advising folks to work with one at a time. That means one demon at a time and one working at any given period. He seems to imply calling on them one time then awaiting results.

Also, do you mean "evoke" or "invoke"? There's a big difference.

Yea I mean invoking as in telling the entity to come to you in your head or out aloud till they come. I definitely will work with only one demon and I am already decided on which one, it will be Vepar. Do you know anything about this demon?

 

[Xenophon]

Yea I mean invoking as in telling the entity to come to you in your head or out aloud till they come. I definitely will work with only one demon and I am already decided on which one, it will be Vepar. Do you know anything about this demon?

I know Vepar is #42 in the Ars Goetia. Crowley did a silly-looking drawing of what looks a slightly slatternly mermaid and called it Vepar. Personally, I don't work in the Goetia, so can say nothing about the demon. Steve Savedow has a good deal or writing about the dangers of evoking demons.
That might be because he uses the traditional rites that are heavy on threats and ultimatums. What rites did you have in mind?

 

[Shaman]

I know Vepar is #42 in the Ars Goetia. Crowley did a silly-looking drawing of what looks a slightly slatternly mermaid and called it Vepar. Personally, I don't work in the Goetia, so can say nothing about the demon. Steve Savedow has a good deal or writing about the dangers of evoking demons.
That might be because he uses the traditional rites that are heavy on threats and ultimatums. What rites did you have in mind?

Yea the deal is off, I can't work with Vepar anymore. My succubus became heartbroken that I was seeking Vepar out so she twisted my foot as a warning. The only ones she's fond of are the 4 angels of prostitution but I wanted to work with the goetia demons. I am angry because this is not what I wanted but ah well.

 

[Mannimarco]

Yea the deal is off, I can't work with Vepar anymore. My succubus became heartbroken that I was seeking Vepar out so she twisted my foot as a warning. The only ones she's fond of are the 4 angels of prostitution but I wanted to work with the goetia demons. I am angry because this is not what I wanted but ah well.

Is this the relationship you want with your succubus? Where she has veto power over what you do or don't do? Have you talked to her about why she feels this way? If this is what you want, great. If not, you can negotiate different terms and boundaries. But there could be a very good reason why she wants you too work with the 4 angels of prostitution instead of Vepar at the moment.

 

[Shaman]

Is this the relationship you want with your succubus? Where she has veto power over what you do or don't do? Have you talked to her about why she feels this way? If this is what you want, great. If not, you can negotiate different terms and boundaries. But there could be a very good reason why she wants you too work with the 4 angels of prostitution instead of Vepar at the moment.

To answer your question, no, this is not what I wanted. I personally really wanted to have a connection with vepar and some other Goetia's demons in the past. However, she has stopped me nearly every time either through divination or attacking my physically. So it's not a vepar only thing, she opposes all Goetia's and just wants me to have a relationship with the 4 angels. I talked to her about it but she refuses to listen or she lies but in reality, she did not change her mind at all. I have no idea what to do honestly, maybe I will speak with her mother Naamah. I think she has good intentions though and is just afraid of losing me or being harmed by the one of the goetic demons.

 

[Bluesoft]

Excuse me for change the direction of this thread but does somebody has work with angels? i mean, i guess demons are angels in someway but im talking about the other side.

Also

Why or how are you taking the desition to work with demons?

Im not saying somethig is good or bad i just want to have knowledge about it.

thanks.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Book – PDF - I have a good Shemhamphoresh paper to upload

Im not sure of the legality involved for the site for me to do so. It is a freemasonry lodge paper that was found on a generic google search in pdf format. I think the gist was this guy realized over time the incorrect Hebrew names for the Shem angels had changed, and he urges in the paper to...

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Post automatically merged: Mar 12, 2024

Book – PDF - The Magick of Angels and Demons by Henry Archer

This is the basis for my 200% effort journal. Great book, I enjoyed this as well as 72 Angels of Magick and Demons of Magick. Download here: MEGA 1705614665 @Nocturnum

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Post automatically merged: Mar 12, 2024

Theres more in the library on angels. The Shem are vastly underrated.