How to summon a planetary cacodemon and a Goetic daemon in the same ritual?

[joaogualbertosjr]

Does anyone know how to summon a planetary cacodemon and a Goetic daemon in the same ritual, or know of any literature that addresses this subject? I've heard that some magicians do this.

 

[MorganBlack]

Goetia is a specific method of practice, with various folk magic 'schools' - not a generic classification for spirits. Mapping the spirits of the grimoires to planetary or astrological patterns is largely speculative at this stage.

My own operative manual, the Grimorium Verum, does not rely on complex astrology, and it limits its celestial timing to the phases of the waxing Moon, and the specific timing of Mercury, Jupiter, Mars, for the consecration of tools. When dealing with sublunar spirits the phase of the moon is important.

I guess you could tie the planetary Cacodemon of Saturn (from Agrippa's magic square, right?) to the hierarchy of the Grand Grimoire, which is not part of the GV, but as cousin grim is often looked to for comparison. Historically, the Secundi - like Cassiel - and the Spirits - like Zazel - operate on a celestial/spherical axis, whereas Guland (whose day is Saturday in the GG) is part of an infernal hierarchy y reporting to the superior spirits: Duke Syrach, then to Lucifer/Beelzebuth/Astaroth.

In your practice, would you be treating the planetary forces as 'officers' within that infernal court, or are you viewing them as two separate layers of the same Saturday / Saturn influence?

 

[joaogualbertosjr]

The systems are different, however, they are from worlds one below the other, so one would use the cacodaemon to force the daemon of the Goetia to appear and obey you, because the one above controls and commands. The grimoire verum is from the world below the world where the world of the daemons of the Goetia is located. There are 4 sublunar worlds, 40 sefirot, that is, 4 different classes of demons, hence the variety of demons in the different grimoires.

Goetia is a specific method of practice, with various folk magic 'schools' - not a generic classification for spirits. Mapping the spirits of the grimoires to planetary or astrological patterns is largely speculative at this stage.

My own operative manual, the Grimorium Verum, does not rely on complex astrology, and it limits its celestial timing to the phases of the waxing Moon, and the specific timing of Mercury, Jupiter, Mars, for the consecration of tools. When dealing with sublunar spirits the phase of the moon is important.

I guess you could tie the planetary Cacodemon of Saturn (from Agrippa's magic square, right?) to the hierarchy of the Grand Grimoire, which is not part of the GV, but as cousin grim is often looked to for comparison. Historically, the Secundi - like Cassiel - and the Spirits - like Zazel - operate on a celestial/spherical axis, whereas Guland (whose day is Saturday in the GG) is part of an infernal hierarchy y reporting to the superior spirits: Duke Syrach, then to Lucifer/Beelzebuth/Astaroth.

In your practice, would you be treating the planetary forces as 'officers' within that infernal court, or are you viewing them as two separate layers of the same Saturday / Saturn influence?

The systems are different, but they are from worlds one below the other, so one would use the cacodaemon to force the daemon of the Goetia to appear and obey, since the one above controls and commands. The grimoire verum is from the world below the world where the daemons of the Goetia are located. There are 4 sublunar worlds, 40 sefirot, that is, 4 different classes of demons, hence the variety of demons in the different grimoires.