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If magick is real, why is it so obscure?

Nickel77

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Hi! I've been in these spaces for a few months now, working with a few angels, demons, and sigils with some quite amazing results and some failures (sorta 50/50). I've had plenty of very revealing and supernatural tarot readings, channeled messages and general synchronicities. However, sometimes, especially when I'm having some failures, I still have some doubts and the biggest one is probably the title. Yes, I understand the nature of the occult is that it's occult. Yes, I am familiar with "To Know, To Will, To Dare, To Keep Silent" (love it). Yes, I am familiar with the fact that many religious and superstitious rituals are a form of magick. However, to believe and invest in the idea that I have this supernatural power that most people do not know of or use and that the people I meet in the forums like these are the only people who have really understood and refined this power feels hard to believe. Obviously, I am not trying to criticize any of you or your beliefs as I am one of you and probably share many of your beliefs, but this question still bothers me. I am hoping for some perspectives on this. would be really appreciated.
love
nickel77
 

Robert Ramsay

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Hi! I've been in these spaces for a few months now, working with a few angels, demons, and sigils with some quite amazing results and some failures (sorta 50/50). I've had plenty of very revealing and supernatural tarot readings, channeled messages and general synchronicities. However, sometimes, especially when I'm having some failures, I still have some doubts and the biggest one is probably the title. Yes, I understand the nature of the occult is that it's occult. Yes, I am familiar with "To Know, To Will, To Dare, To Keep Silent" (love it). Yes, I am familiar with the fact that many religious and superstitious rituals are a form of magick. However, to believe and invest in the idea that I have this supernatural power that most people do not know of or use and that the people I meet in the forums like these are the only people who have really understood and refined this power feels hard to believe. Obviously, I am not trying to criticize any of you or your beliefs as I am one of you and probably share many of your beliefs, but this question still bothers me. I am hoping for some perspectives on this. would be really appreciated.
love
nickel77
My perspective on this is that

1) it's not supernatural, it's a way of using the human brain - almost like an 'exploit' in a video game.
2) Nobody knows why it works. There are a million models to allow you to use it, but the fact that many of them contradict each other and still produce successful results should tell us something.
3) Most people are simply not interested enough to either study it, or put in the hard work that success in any field requires.
 

deci belle

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THIS, what Robert Ramsay said:
My perspective on this is that

1) it's not supernatural, it's a way of using the human brain - almost like an 'exploit' in a video game.
2) Nobody knows why it works. There are a million models to allow you to use it, but the fact that many of them contradict each other and still produce successful results should tell us something.
3) Most people are simply not interested enough to either study it, or put in the hard work that success in any field requires.

What I wanted to add before quoting Robert is that even Reality itself is the realm of inconceivability, but habituation to psychological (dualistic), processing of situational energy obscures Reality's potential, in a similar but unrelated sense as StarofSitra alluded to above. There's a reason the occult is occult— necessarily operating beyond the mores of dominant orthodoxies of provisional traditions of utility that (for good reason, are designed to) keep people in holding patterns until individuals themselves have the gumption and opportunity to release themselves somehow.

No different than gang members who want out of a gang (or the Ukraine wanting out of Russia).
 

Robert Ramsay

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THIS, what Robert Ramsay said:


What I wanted to add before quoting Robert is that even Reality itself is the realm of inconceivability, but habituation to psychological (dualistic), processing of situational energy obscures Reality's potential, in a similar but unrelated sense as StarofSitra alluded to above. There's a reason the occult is occult— necessarily operating beyond the mores of dominant orthodoxies of provisional traditions of utility that (for good reason, are designed to) keep people in holding patterns until individuals themselves have the gumption and opportunity to release themselves somehow.

No different than gang members who want out of a gang (or the Ukraine wanting out of Russia).
I think a lot of it is like the way most people don't become brain surgeons.
 

Keldan

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Magick is real, but it’s so obscure because of skepticism.

It’s not that nothing happens, it’s that most of what happens is personal, contextual, and hard to reproduce on command for an audience that’s already expecting it to fail.

This isn’t new at all. In the past, if someone lived on the outskirts of a village in a cabin full of herbs, most people wouldn’t call them a wizard (no pun intended) and accept that they practiced magick. They’d call them an odd healer, also a part time counselor and a diviner people visited when they were desperate and needed help to fix their problems. Even if that person mixed herbs, spoke incantations, and performed something in front of them, they would not call it magick.

Another reason magick stays obscure is that the existing systems are contradicting with each other. That doesn’t automatically mean any of them are wrong. It just means they each hold a piece of the pie, and that multiple routes can lead to results. That includes my personally built system developed over many years of practice. If a system consistently gets you where you’re trying to go, it’s hard to dismiss it just because it doesn’t match a popular framework.

To demonstrate that my method works, you have to deconstruct what you think you know about other systems. Skepticism kicks in immediately, especially when you can point to famous authors who have sold millions of books and say, “why should I believe some random person online?”

That leads to another question. Do those authors actually practice magick, or are they compiling and translating what already exists? And if a system relies on ancient, original texts, how confident are we that the translation preserved what mattered? Even small, incorrect translation errors can change everything. That could explain why certain rites seem to work consistently while others seem to be noticed by many to fall flat. The issue is that it’s hard to convince people of this from the outside. If a practitioner says “hey, that ritual is flawed because of the translation,” skepticism will usually dismiss them, especially if the ritual is famous or comes from a respected source. And you don’t even know if any of it is flawed even if you know magick, since it’s somebody else’s rituals. This is why magick is obscure, even when it’s real.

Even in a community like this where we practice, you’ll still find some members who don’t believe in an ounce of magick. They treat accounts of us as entertaining stories rather than evidence of anything occult.

My point is to do magick, be magick, whether anyone else believes in it or not. Magick isn’t one narrow highway, it’s more like a tree with countless branches. I just hope more people will look beyond the handful of popular paths and explore the many other branches of magick out there.
 

Firetree

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Hi! I've been in these spaces for a few months now, working with a few angels, demons, and sigils with some quite amazing results and some failures (sorta 50/50). I've had plenty of very revealing and supernatural tarot readings, channeled messages and general synchronicities. However, sometimes, especially when I'm having some failures, I still have some doubts and the biggest one is probably the title. Yes, I understand the nature of the occult is that it's occult. Yes, I am familiar with "To Know, To Will, To Dare, To Keep Silent" (love it). Yes, I am familiar with the fact that many religious and superstitious rituals are a form of magick. However, to believe and invest in the idea that I have this supernatural power that most people do not know of or use and that the people I meet in the forums like these are the only people who have really understood and refined this power feels hard to believe. Obviously, I am not trying to criticize any of you or your beliefs as I am one of you and probably share many of your beliefs, but this question still bothers me. I am hoping for some perspectives on this. would be really appreciated.
love
nickel77

Of course that is hard to believe . Why did you think that was a valid belief in the first place ?

For example I been practicing some of the things you mention for over 40 years .... yet I only just joined a 'magical ' forum ( this one ) recently .
 

Thee Nightfool

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"Magic" is only obscure in areas colonized by the post-Scientific Enlightenment ideas, spread by Anglo-Saxon school system. Lotta good stuff there, but on the magic front it was a disaster For 80% of the rest of people on the planet, for the rest of us, "magic" is just the default worldview.
Yes, modern-day Thailand is a great example of this. A perfect little hodge-podge of Hinyana/Theravada Buddhist societal standards mixed with a heavy dose of indegenous folk-magical heritage that has never been stamped out (mostly because Buddhist societies integrate far better with indegenous spiritual views, Tibet and its Vajrayana theocracy being yet another fantastic example of this).
 

AlfrunGrima

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Of course that is hard to believe . Why did you think that was a valid belief in the first place ?

For example I been practicing some of the things you mention for over 40 years .... yet I only just joined a 'magical ' forum ( this one ) recently .
I recognize that. Joined a few years ago, never was on the internet before although practicing for decades. Before that in 1999 or 2000 was the last time I talked about magic with other people. It is not something that in general comes to the mind as a subject to talk about for people.

I agree with Morgan that post-scientific enlightment changed the thinking of the anglo-saxon part of the world. That lineair thinking kills magical thinking before it is even possible to bear fruit.
 

frater_pan

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"Magic" is only obscure in areas colonized by the post-Scientific Enlightenment ideas, spread by Anglo-Saxon school system. Lotta good stuff there, but on the magic front it was a disaster For 80% of the rest of people on the planet, for the rest of us, "magic" is just the default worldview.

Not recruiting here, but For English speaker, or those taking cues from English speaking magic systems, to find "magic" in this mostly Catholic hemisphere, you have to expand a little from the practices of white people. Look for what is called "miracles" over here, then you'll learn to recognize it more.
I'll buy that to a certain extent but in several so-called "white dominated" areas there is still the survival of folk magick. This is passed down through stories and almost always interpreted in a kind of Christian context, even though the dominant Christian context in these areas are forms of fundamentalism (this isn't true everywhere through). Then there is also folk magick in Asian-America areas and kids talk about this stuff all the time.

Thus there are degrees of transmission and initiation in society, even if it is more subdued.
 

Sedim Haba

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I always believed magick was real but...

This is true. My great uncle on my mother's side was one of the many assistants for Houdini. How long, family lore don't say.

(Houdini in his later years tried hard to debunk the seance charlatans, and succeeded. But, he was still a believer, in a way)

My Grandfather, who taught me far more than my father (who admittedly was out earning a living) tried to teach me some magic.

Simple stuff. Card tricks, slight of hand. I was not good at it. No dexterity, stubby fat fingers (how I played guitar was sheer willpower I think)

I was into all the 'cool' occult stuff in the '70's. Bought a tarot deck, read books, tried my hand at many things. Failed just like with card tricks.

I just assumed I was too inept, that others could 'do it' and I could not, and that was it. Too Hard.

Well, I still think this way, sorta. But, I have help now. A great helper. The greatest Magick? Transformation.
 

Firetree

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I recognize that. Joined a few years ago, never was on the internet before although practicing for decades. Before that in 1999 or 2000 was the last time I talked about magic with other people. It is not something that in general comes to the mind as a subject to talk about for people.

I agree with Morgan that post-scientific enlightment changed the thinking of the anglo-saxon part of the world. That lineair thinking kills magical thinking before it is even possible to bear fruit.

Indeed . I think its a subject well worth looking into . The best I found on it is a book that I cant remember the title or author of ... damn !
It may come as I write . A main observation in that and many others is the shift from a three part reality to a two part reality ; the real and the ideal ; everything is either real material soild or a concept meantal idea philosophy (ideal ) . Anything else is wrong , imagined or a fault in the perceptive mechanism .

That has started to change in .... Herbert Butterfield ! ( Ha .... memory ! ) .... in recent decades . >

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by Herbert Butterfield.


even if one just reads the first 4 chapters .... very illuminating !

here is a freebie ;

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