Is self deification really possible

[Lucifer]

Well, I understand that embracing the shadow self and the various archetypes of one's psyche have power, but self deification, that I would want, will be like achieving omniscience, along with possibly immortality and omnipotentence (Omnipresence does not pique my attention much). Is that possible? Like I have heard about omniscience achieving on awakening the Third Eye, but not sure how to actually awaken it? Are there other ways of achieving omniscience?

 

[Xenophon]

Traditionally few of the gods even had foresight, much less omniscience. Wotan, but only when seated on his scrying throne. The old crone in the Voluspa prophecy. Gefjon, a cup-bearing servant to the Aesir.

 

[Peter2]

Many humans anchor a thread (tight spiral) of light from The Source of All - from before and after any universes existed.

If that thread is present, what need is there of deification?

If the thread is not present, what use is there in seeking deification?

 

[Xenophon]

Many humans anchor a thread (tight spiral) of light from The Source of All - from before and after any universes existed.

If that thread is present, what need is there of deification?

If the thread is not present, what use is there in seeking deification?

Maybe apotheosis is a way of tying back in. Look around you: most humans are busy unravelling any thread that ties them into the divine. This world offers them all this neat consumerist shit. Personally, I think it 100% just and right that we have to work like Hell to connect with Heaven.

 

[Al-Zalaam]

Well, I understand that embracing the shadow self and the various archetypes of one's psyche have power, but self deification, that I would want, will be like achieving omniscience, along with possibly immortality and omnipotentence (Omnipresence does not pique my attention much). Is that possible? Like I have heard about omniscience achieving on awakening the Third Eye, but not sure how to actually awaken it? Are there other ways of achieving omniscience?

Self-deification being possible according to traditional sources? Absolutely.
Easy though? Hell no. It's the hardest thing you could ever do.

Most modern practitioners struggle to maintain a measly 15 - 60 minutes of practice daily to pursue the most rudimentary low-magic, let alone the 24/7 lifestyle change required by such rigorous systems of initiation which aim towards the heights you seek.

If I recall, old-school yoga was precisely a system of self-deification that pursued such things and more.
Then the IIH by Bardon is roughly the same thing presented in a more approachable, efficient, and culturally universal form(in so much as was possible at the time of WMT dominance), and that's practically the most straightforward manual of self-deification you can get your hands on today, with the addition of his various insights and his personal techniques regarding many different applications.

Within the IIH in particular, Omnipotence, Omniscience, Immortality, and Omnipresence, are all the Divine Qualities which correspond to the Elements and which are actively pursued in the ninth step within the context of the Astral Body.
With these fully developed and embraced over time, you're as good as a God, practically speaking, as it will deify your Soul(Astral Body) and Spirit with the aforementioned faculties.

Physical Immortality in the common sense of the concept is probably the last thing you'd ever consider pursuing, really, and is seen by some as redundant given the capabilities and freedom of possibilities you would possess already by the time you reach a point where it becomes a feasible opportunity.
Nevertheless, the often-misunderstood Body of Light, aka the conversion of the physical self into an energy-state, is the most common route of achieving Physical Immortality that I know of, and I've heard it takes roughly a century or so to complete with the assistance of the Philosopher's Stone throughout the process.
"Common" is relative, though, as not only is the number of successful Adepts who get to see that opportunity a most fleeting number, but I'm fairly confident that most skip out on it anyways in preference of taking their positions in the higher spheres rather than wasting their time down in the Earth-Zone as an incarnate human.

 

[pixel_fortune]

I think if it were possible, if you achieved it, you would basically have none of your current personality or any of the reasons you currently want omniscience, omnipotence etc. You would just be a sea of awareness with little or no sense of self.

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2024

Here's something I think about:

A truly omniscient being would be completely incurious. Because there would be no gap in its knowledge it wanted to feel. It probably couldn't have a sense of humour, because humour is based on setting up an expectation and then subverting it. An omniscient being could never be 'misled' by the setup of a joke, never be surprised, and never make that little extra connection that happens when you get the joke.

An omniscient being would not have the faculty of logic. Logic is about the relationship between different ideas, and using what you do know to build a scaffolding to get to something you don't know.
If you already knew literally everything and every relationship between everything, you would never need to develop a system of thinking about how to extrapolate new knowledge from existing knowledge

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2024

* wanted to fill

 

[Robert Ramsay]

It probably couldn't have a sense of humour, because humour is based on setting up an expectation and then subverting it. An omniscient being could never be 'misled' by the setup of a joke, never be surprised, and never make that little extra connection that happens when you get the joke.

Although the being would also know what it would be like to get the joke if you hadn't heard it

People seem to get a lot of pleasure from just repeating funny lines from films, TV etc. to each other, even though (and probably because) they both know them.

I will however come full circle and say that anyone who believes themselves to be a god is unlikely to have a sense of humour anyway

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Well, I understand that embracing the shadow self and the various archetypes of one's psyche have power, but self deification, that I would want, will be like achieving omniscience, along with possibly immortality and omnipotentence (Omnipresence does not pique my attention much). Is that possible? Like I have heard about omniscience achieving on awakening the Third Eye, but not sure how to actually awaken it? Are there other ways of achieving omniscience?

No. Demigods or Titans maybe.
Otherwise, why would we need Grimoires or conjuring other beings when we could do it ourselves?

 

[Al-Zalaam]

No. Demigods or Titans maybe.
Otherwise, why would we need Grimoires or conjuring other beings when we could do it ourselves?

Because humans are lazy, occultists being no exception, and it is much easier to take up the art of begging higher beings to fulfill our wishes than spend the great amounts of time and effort necessary to get on their level and do it ourselves.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Seriously.
We can learn astral travel, especially through combined desire and will, let alone knowledge, some of us anyway.
We can, with knowledge and self training and intuition, learn the past, present and future, with Tarot, Runes, Bones, IChing sticks, Dice or dots in the sand; let alone clouds, wind, etc.
We can, with training, train our will to bend a spork, among other neat things.
But can you create a solar system with living things?
Are you immortal/can you cause others to reincarnate upon death?
Can you create a shot ton of energy and cause lightning to hit people?
Maybe.
Because we're human beings with one life.

 

[Wildchildx11]

I'm not sure I want self-deification, when I smoked cannabis I get delusions of being able to control reality with my mind and I can feel it wrapping around me.

My dad told me yesterday that the life of God's must be hell because you would get bored with pleasure and the good without the bad to balance it.

I know it's kind of odd, but if I achieve apotheosis then I guess I do. I do prefer something higher than myself at this time.

 

[Xenophon]

Self-deification being possible according to traditional sources? Absolutely.
Easy though? Hell no. It's the hardest thing you could ever do.

Most modern practitioners struggle to maintain a measly 15 - 60 minutes of practice daily to pursue the most rudimentary low-magic, let alone the 24/7 lifestyle change required by such rigorous systems of initiation which aim towards the heights you seek.

If I recall, old-school yoga was precisely a system of self-deification that pursued such things and more.
Then the IIH by Bardon is roughly the same thing presented in a more approachable, efficient, and culturally universal form(in so much as was possible at the time of WMT dominance), and that's practically the most straightforward manual of self-deification you can get your hands on today, with the addition of his various insights and his personal techniques regarding many different applications.

Within the IIH in particular, Omnipotence, Omniscience, Immortality, and Omnipresence, are all the Divine Qualities which correspond to the Elements and which are actively pursued in the ninth step within the context of the Astral Body.
With these fully developed and embraced over time, you're as good as a God, practically speaking, as it will deify your Soul(Astral Body) and Spirit with the aforementioned faculties.

Physical Immortality in the common sense of the concept is probably the last thing you'd ever consider pursuing, really, and is seen by some as redundant given the capabilities and freedom of possibilities you would possess already by the time you reach a point where it becomes a feasible opportunity.
Nevertheless, the often-misunderstood Body of Light, aka the conversion of the physical self into an energy-state, is the most common route of achieving Physical Immortality that I know of, and I've heard it takes roughly a century or so to complete with the assistance of the Philosopher's Stone throughout the process.
"Common" is relative, though, as not only is the number of successful Adepts who get to see that opportunity a most fleeting number, but I'm fairly confident that most skip out on it anyways in preference of taking their positions in the higher spheres rather than wasting their time down in the Earth-Zone as an incarnate human.

As Miguel Serrano wrote: "Humanity has no destiny; a few humans do: to rediscover lost destiny." He was cribbing from his life's big inspiration who had earlier said: "If my creed can be summed up in a single phrase, it is to re-approach the god-like in man."

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2024

I think if it were possible, if you achieved it, you would basically have none of your current personality or any of the reasons you currently want omniscience, omnipotence etc. You would just be a sea of awareness with little or no sense of self.

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2024

Here's something I think about:

A truly omniscient being would be completely incurious. Because there would be no gap in its knowledge it wanted to feel. It probably couldn't have a sense of humour, because humour is based on setting up an expectation and then subverting it. An omniscient being could never be 'misled' by the setup of a joke, never be surprised, and never make that little extra connection that happens when you get the joke.

An omniscient being would not have the faculty of logic. Logic is about the relationship between different ideas, and using what you do know to build a scaffolding to get to something you don't know.
If you already knew literally everything and every relationship between everything, you would never need to develop a system of thinking about how to extrapolate new knowledge from existing knowledge

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2024

* wanted to fill

I suppose you've hit on a litmus test for guru-types who give themselves out as "perfectly realized avatars of the Supreme Godhead." Or maybe not: there seems to be a plethora of humorless, illogical spiritual guides out there.

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2024

I'm not sure I want self-deification, when I smoked cannabis I get delusions of being able to control reality with my mind and I can feel it wrapping around me.

My dad told me yesterday that the life of God's must be hell because you would get bored with pleasure and the good without the bad to balance it.

I know it's kind of odd, but if I achieve apotheosis then I guess I do. I do prefer something higher than myself at this time.

Who says the gods' life is pleasure? Reading what our ancestors had to say about life on Olympus, in Asgard, or wherever Hindoo deities congregate, things could get hairy throughout all the realms and worlds.

 

[pixel_fortune]

People seem to get a lot of pleasure from just repeating funny lines from films, TV etc. to each other, even though (and probably because) they both know them.

True, although if my secret point is "I don't think I would like an omniscient god much, since he would lack three of my most liked personality traits (being logical, curious and having a sense of humour) then "don't worry, he would like repeating quotes from the Simpsons" isn't much comfort

Although, more earnestly, in Alexander Technique they talk about awareness vs attention. Your awareness is the whole field of sensory (and other) input, and your attention moves around within that field

For example, my field of awareness includes everything in my peripheral vision, but my attention is on the laptop screen and keyboard. If i scrolled twitter for an hour, my awareness would collapse around the screen, and I would probably no longer be able to freely move my attention around my peripheral vision unless something loud/bright happened to re-expand my awareness.


That seems to be how the Sumerians viewed Gods. They could be aware of anything, but they might not be focusing on it, and sometimes you had to bring their attention to things they might have overlooked. There are some prayers that are pretty demanding, like "hey!! Inanna!! I've been devoted! I did all the right things, I praised you, I gave offerings, how come my life is so shit right now?? Hold up your end of the bargain!" (I love this as an alternative to prayers that are like "my life is shit so I must have done something really bad, please forgive me")

 

[Wildchildx11]

True, although if my secret point is "I don't think I would like an omniscient god much, since he would lack three of my most liked personality traits (being logical, curious and having a sense of humour) then "don't worry, he would like repeating quotes from the Simpsons" isn't much comfort

Although, more earnestly, in Alexander Technique they talk about awareness vs attention. Your awareness is the whole field of sensory (and other) input, and your attention moves around within that field

For example, my field of awareness includes everything in my peripheral vision, but my attention is on the laptop screen and keyboard. If i scrolled twitter for an hour, my awareness would collapse around the screen, and I would probably no longer be able to freely move my attention around my peripheral vision unless something loud/bright happened to re-expand my awareness.


That seems to be how the Sumerians viewed Gods. They could be aware of anything, but they might not be focusing on it, and sometimes you had to bring their attention to things they might have overlooked. There are some prayers that are pretty demanding, like "hey!! Inanna!! I've been devoted! I did all the right things, I praised you, I gave offerings, how come my life is so shit right now?? Hold up your end of the bargain!" (I love this as an alternative to prayers that are like "my life is shit so I must have done something really bad, please forgive me")

My experience with working with Gods is that they haven't always been able to read minds or sense the intention behind an action, at least with me, it feels like I've had to explain often where I'm coming from and my thought process and then they were like "Oh, that makes sense". I guess they can sense energy, but not the thoughts or intention of others.

I guess I would like to improve my consciousness, but the question is, would the entities we work with actually be able to function in a human incarnation easily without much difficulity or challenge? What if being able to function in modern day society makes us better than Gods in that aspect.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

True, although if my secret point is "I don't think I would like an omniscient god much, since he would lack three of my most liked personality traits (being logical, curious and having a sense of humour) then "don't worry, he would like repeating quotes from the Simpsons" isn't much comfort

I can't imagine I would like an omniscient god either - even if only on the grounds of "nobody likes a smartarse"

That seems to be how the Sumerians viewed Gods. They could be aware of anything, but they might not be focusing on it, and sometimes you had to bring their attention to things they might have overlooked.

People find it difficult to impossible to imagine a being that is actually superior to them. As Robert Heinlein put it: "Most gods have the manners of spoiled children"

Post automatically merged: May 13, 2024

the question is, would the entities we work with actually be able to function in a human incarnation easily without much difficulity or challenge? What if being able to function in modern day society makes us better than Gods in that aspect.

I recommend the TV series Lucifer for various gods, angels and goddesses in the 'fish out of water' trope

 

[Wildchildx11]

I can't imagine I would like an omniscient god either - even if only on the grounds of "nobody likes a smartarse"


People find it difficult to impossible to imagine a being that is actually superior to them. As Robert Heinlein put it: "Most gods have the manners of spoiled children"

Post automatically merged: May 13, 2024

I recommend the TV series Lucifer for various gods, angels and goddesses in the 'fish out of water' trope

I'm already very common with the whole "fish out of water" trope, I think anyone focused on spirituality in a western society is. Functioning in modern day society is very much like swimming against a current meant to keep you from succeeding and having to use all your strength just to avoid being dragged by the current, however I'm coming from poverty.

 

[pixel_fortune]

People find it difficult to impossible to imagine a being that is actually superior to them.

I find it very easy to imagine THAT there is a superior being to me. Whenever I have a reaction - not necessarily even judgemental - but I see that someone is just really struggling to understand something and missing the mark badly, they're not emotional or defensive but they're just not able to understand an idea even when a few people have (kindly) presented it in a few different ways, and you go, "oh, they're just... not as intelligent as me. Their brain just can't connect the dots" or whatever.

And then you go, "I bet there's someone else who looks at me and something I don't understand (or am unwittingly misunderestanding) and sees me just like I see that other person.

That's very standard, "if I feel this way about x, somebody else probably feels that way about me" empathy, but it's by definition hard to actually put yourself in their shoes of someone who sees more than you do, and see the world the way they do

FWIW I also think an omniscient god would be infinitely compassionate. Because they would fully and completely know every detail of the backstory and circumstances of everyone who did wrong, they would completely, completely understand how that person got in that position. (That doesn't mean they would approve of it. But I think they would understand and have sympathy for them in a way very few people can).

Post automatically merged: May 13, 2024

Similarly I don't think gods get upset about blasphemy or whatever. I don't get offended by a child insulting me; there's not really any way for a child to score on my inner psyche. And I am the equivalent of a child to a god, in terms of relative power and knowledge. Being "petty" literally means being small (like "petite")

 

[Wildchildx11]

I find it very easy to imagine THAT there is a superior being to me. Whenever I have a reaction - not necessarily even judgemental - but I see that someone is just really struggling to understand something and missing the mark badly, they're not emotional or defensive but they're just not able to understand an idea even when a few people have (kindly) presented it in a few different ways, and you go, "oh, they're just... not as intelligent as me. Their brain just can't connect the dots" or whatever.

And then you go, "I bet there's someone else who looks at me and something I don't understand (or am unwittinglymisunderestanding) and sees me just like I see that other person.

But it's by definition hard to put yourself in their shoes.

FWIW I also think an omniscient god would be infinitely compassionate. Because they would fully and completely know every detail of the backstory and circumstances of everyone who did wrong, they would completely, completely understand how that person got in that position. (That doesn't mean they would approve of it. But I think they would understand and have sympathy for them in a way very few people can).

I think I realized that even if a God is omniscient, when I experienced homelessness in the past and I'm going to try not to go into to much information, but essentially being homeless there were a lack of natural laws to get you out and the system was designed to keep you stuck. I got out, but it still took years and years, it made me realize the limits of Gods and how much energy it actually takes for them to make an action or reaction when compared to the greed of man. I probably only got due to being a conduit which received sudden insights and intuition at the right time, but how long it actually took and the energy I had to invest made me realize that even Gods have limits when it comes to something such as homelessness or even poverty in modern society when the system is designed to keep you blocked.

Gods often cause an effect via natural laws, but the system in the US is meant to eliminate chaos and those natural laws and keep the prevailing power structure and you actually realize how much energy they have to spend and how long it takes and why they aren't really all powerful when compared to man made effects such as greed and corruption in regards to how the system is designed.

 

[pixel_fortune]

I think I realized that even if a God is omniscient, when I experienced homelessness in the past and I'm going to try not to go into to much information, but essentially being homeless there were a lack of natural laws to get you out and the system was designed to keep you stuck. I got out, but it still took years and years, it made me realize the limits of Gods and how much energy it actually takes for them to make an action or reaction when compared to the greed of man. I probably only got due to being a conduit which received sudden insights and intuition at the right time, but how long it actually took and the energy I had to invest made me realize that even Gods have limits when it comes to something such as homelessness or even poverty in modern society when the system is designed to keep you blocked.

Gods often cause an effect via natural laws, but the system in the US is meant to eliminate chaos and those natural laws and keep the prevailing power structure and you actually realize how much energy they have to spend and how long it takes and why they aren't really all powerful when compared to man made effects such as greed and corruption in regards to how the system is designed.

Yeah, this kind of thing is why I feel able to have a devotional practice to Inanna/Ishtar. She's a goddess of beauty among other things, and people in the most dire and horrendous of situations will sometimes be able to stop and notice some unexpected beauty - Viktor Frankl talks about when he was in a concentration camp, running out to look at a sunset, even he barely had the energy to stand. So, beauty doesn't help people get out of poverty, but it doesn't abandon them either. I have the same feeling about Mercury, for comedy and curiosity - even at my lowest points, I never stopped being curious and wanting to learn stuff. (or making dumb jokes). So that's another god who has never abandoned me, even if he couldn't save me.

 

[Wildchildx11]

Yeah, this kind of thing is why I feel able to have a devotional practice to Inanna/Ishtar. She's a goddess of beauty among other things, and people in the most dire and horrendous of situations will sometimes be able to stop and notice some unexpected beauty - Viktor Frankl talks about when he was in a concentration camp, running out to look at a sunset, even he barely had the energy to stand. So, beauty doesn't help people get out of poverty, but it doesn't abandon them either. I have the same feeling about Mercury, for comedy and curiosity - even at my lowest points, I never stopped being curious and wanting to learn stuff. (or making dumb jokes). So that's another god who has never abandoned me, even if he couldn't save me.

I think I should work with Ianna/Ishtar. I was working with Lucifer previously on self-love, but even when a being is teaching you self-love, it is really hard to work with a being that is demonized as the devil, even if they have morning star aspects and associations, because you keep on having the internal fear "What if they are betraying you?" which the influence of guilt in the Christian religion and the effect it has on your subconscious mind is so deep on the psyche and the collective consciousness that you do have doubts. I just want to thank you for the idea, and mention yet another Victor Frankl syncronicity. He's brought up a lot in my life. Ishtar/Ianna Is another God associated with the morning star without the fear of hell or demonic associations.

Getting back on topic, Gods are probably also working against the collective and societal consciousness of man.