Is This A Prison?

[Adamon]

I see this as a prison as many people here in this forum, however I would like to know how's your point of view.

I remember when I read Michael Kelly's book "apophis" he assured that the black wizards doesn't see this world as a prison where you have to escape. According to him the RHP practitioner are who see this world like that.

He had a perspective less radical, and even seem he hasn't problems with Born again if he has (he didn't mentioned this, just are my own suppositions according to that he wrote).

I remember this last was a shock for me, I mean, the biggest majority have the same point of view of this place.

Besides, I don't think that you have to be as the 218 current hating excessively this world, we should enjoy this material world as much as we are around, but, was shocking to find that there were magicians who believe that we're nothing but flesh and organs, since later on he wrote the there were every type of theories on the Temple of set practitioners behalf regarding what happens after death.

That made me open my mind, and know that not whole the LHP practitioners had the same perception of this reality.

Then I would like to know you point of view, and if it is possible why do you accept once and for all that I was the thruth?

Post automatically merged: Monday at 2:56 AM

I see this as a prison as many people here in this forum, however I would like to know how's your point of view.

I remember when I read Michael Kelly's book "apophis" he assured that the black wizards doesn't see this world as a prison where you have to escape. According to him the RHP practitioner are who see this world like that.

He had a perspective less radical, and even seem he hasn't problems with Born again if he has (he didn't mentioned this, just are my own suppositions according to that he wrote).

I remember this last was a shock for me, I mean, the biggest majority have the same point of view of this place.

Besides, I don't think that you have to be as the 218 current hating excessively this world, we should enjoy this material world as much as we are around, but, was shocking to find that there were magicians who believe that we're nothing but flesh and organs, since later on he wrote the there were every type of theories on the Temple of set practitioners behalf regarding what happens after death.

That made me open my mind, and know that not whole the LHP practitioners had the same perception of this reality.

Then I would like to know you point of view, and if it is possible why do you accept once and for all that I was the thruth?

I'm sorry for the grammatically errors, I wrote this without any previous preparation.

 

[Yazata]

I don't consider this world a prison even though I am more RHP than L. There's much joy and pleasure to be found and experienced on earth. In my biased opinion, the people who think of it as a prison are upset that they don't get much without working for it.

 

[Anziel_Merkaba]

Life is only a prison if you let your thoughts and choices turn it into one, although really the prison isn't the world but your own mind, unless you literally are in a prison at which point it is the world. As within so without.

 

[Amur]

This picture came to mind

But yes we have too much free will to live in a prison and yes even in a prison you can be free.

 

[TechPriest]

I believe that reality is an emergent quality of consciousness, not the other way around. i.e. if you believe this existence is a prison, then it will be.
"אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה"

 

[IllusiveOwl]

What do you do in a prison?

You sit, you follow a schedule, you obey the guards, you endure the prisoners, you wait, until eventually you are released. Inside you can read books, work, take classes, practice magic, etc.

That sounds a lot like our overall lives here on Earth. Especially the part where we contemplate ourselves, morality, other people, etc just as a natural result of our individual natures. In jail, if you are a piece of shit, you stay in jail longer. If you're good, you get out on parole. From a Buddhist point of view, the only way out is to not be a piece of shit, because only rabid animals are shitty, and I've had to endure talking to a lot of shitty people.

Most of the world feels like it's a giant God damn psychward rather than a prison though.

How's that view help a LHP practitioner? Well, if you think life is dandy, you're going to loaf around all day, be a passive bean of soy, or waste your time here endlessly seeking meaningless thrills and exciting experiences. Even worse, you'll cherish your life and be more prone to take the safe route of a stable job & home that will chain you to a single place for your entire incarnation.

A hard view of life will make you a hard person, a carefree view will make you a sufi spinning in the daisy's. There's nothing wrong with any view, you be whatever you want, I just use my view to pressurize & purify myself with suffering, it's alchemical.

 

[Adamon]

I don't consider this world a prison even though I am more RHP than L. There's much joy and pleasure to be found and experienced on earth. In my biased opinion, the people who think of it as a prison are upset that they don't get much without working for it.

There are a lot of to debate about this. that typic idea of "if you see it, it will be" well, for me and different practitioners it is nothing but RHP non sense. Besides, these beliefs don't come out of nowhere.

But I won't argue this, I believe in "Do what thou wilt" and it also applies in your spiritual path.

Just I want to leave a quote from Aleksandr duguin, which according to me it's the best description for the LHP.

(I don't condone any idea or ideology that comes from this guy, but this one of course)

The second path, the “Left Hand Path”, sees all in an inverted perspective. Not dairy tranquility, but black suffering; not silent calm, but torturous, fiery drama of spirited life. This is “A Path of Wine”. It is destructive, terrible, anger and violence reigns there. For the one who is going by this path, all reality is perceived as hell, as the ontological exile, as torture, as immersion into the heart of some inconceivable catastrophe originating from the heights of space.
If in the first path everything seems as good, in the second — as evil. This path is monstrously difficult, but only this path is true. It is easy to stumble on it, and it is even easier to perish. It guarantees nothing. It tempts nobody. But only this path is the true one. Who follows it — will find glory and immortality. Who will withstand — will conquer, will receive the award, which is higher than life.
The one going by the “Left Hand Path” knows, that one day the imprisonment will be over. The prison of substance will collapse, having transformed into a celestial city. The chain of the initiated passionately prepares a desired moment, the moment of the End, triumph of total liberation.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

The second path, the “Left Hand Path”, sees all in an inverted perspective. Not dairy tranquility, but black suffering; not silent calm, but torturous, fiery drama of spirited life. This is “A Path of Wine”. It is destructive, terrible, anger and violence reigns there. For the one who is going by this path, all reality is perceived as hell, as the ontological exile, as torture, as immersion into the heart of some inconceivable catastrophe originating from the heights of space.
If in the first path everything seems as good, in the second — as evil. This path is monstrously difficult, but only this path is true. It is easy to stumble on it, and it is even easier to perish. It guarantees nothing. It tempts nobody. But only this path is the true one. Who follows it — will find glory and immortality. Who will withstand — will conquer, will receive the award, which is higher than life.
The one going by the “Left Hand Path” knows, that one day the imprisonment will be over. The prison of substance will collapse, having transformed into a celestial city. The chain of the initiated passionately prepares a desired moment, the moment of the End, triumph of total liberation.

This Duguin guy knows what's up

 

[Yazata]

There are a lot of to debate about this. that typic idea of "if you see it, it will be" well, for me and different practitioners it is nothing but RHP non sense. Besides, these beliefs don't come out of nowhere.

But I won't argue this, I believe in "Do what thou wilt" and it also applies in your spiritual path.

Just I want to leave a quote from Aleksandr duguin, which according to me it's the best description for the LHP.

(I don't condone any idea or ideology that comes from this guy, but this one of course)

The second path, the “Left Hand Path”, sees all in an inverted perspective. Not dairy tranquility, but black suffering; not silent calm, but torturous, fiery drama of spirited life. This is “A Path of Wine”. It is destructive, terrible, anger and violence reigns there. For the one who is going by this path, all reality is perceived as hell, as the ontological exile, as torture, as immersion into the heart of some inconceivable catastrophe originating from the heights of space.
If in the first path everything seems as good, in the second — as evil. This path is monstrously difficult, but only this path is true. It is easy to stumble on it, and it is even easier to perish. It guarantees nothing. It tempts nobody. But only this path is the true one. Who follows it — will find glory and immortality. Who will withstand — will conquer, will receive the award, which is higher than life.
The one going by the “Left Hand Path” knows, that one day the imprisonment will be over. The prison of substance will collapse, having transformed into a celestial city. The chain of the initiated passionately prepares a desired moment, the moment of the End, triumph of total liberation.

Best of luck then.

 

[Mannimarco]

I see this as a prison as many people here in this forum, however I would like to know how's your point of view.

I remember when I read Michael Kelly's book "apophis" he assured that the black wizards doesn't see this world as a prison where you have to escape. According to him the RHP practitioner are who see this world like that.

He had a perspective less radical, and even seem he hasn't problems with Born again if he has (he didn't mentioned this, just are my own suppositions according to that he wrote).

I remember this last was a shock for me, I mean, the biggest majority have the same point of view of this place.

Besides, I don't think that you have to be as the 218 current hating excessively this world, we should enjoy this material world as much as we are around, but, was shocking to find that there were magicians who believe that we're nothing but flesh and organs, since later on he wrote the there were every type of theories on the Temple of set practitioners behalf regarding what happens after death.

That made me open my mind, and know that not whole the LHP practitioners had the same perception of this reality.

Then I would like to know you point of view, and if it is possible why do you accept once and for all that I was the thruth?

Post automatically merged: Monday at 2:56 AM

I'm sorry for the grammatically errors, I wrote this without any previous preparation.

There are things about the human experience of incarnating on earth that resemble a prison. Like a prison, most people don't want to be here, and a few do. The experience is horrible for most, but a few actually thrive. Some of the thrivers are psychopaths, but not all. We are told by the "authorities" that its our own choice/choices that has brought us here. Most of us can't remember any such "choice", and the whole story is rather dubious, and sounds like a narrative designed to silence the people protesting the living conditions. Like a US prison, someone seems to be profiting nicely off the whole system, but they are not interested in the limelight, and prefer to be unknown by most of the masses. Like a prison, everyone in the system respects power. Those without power have a bad time of it.

I could go on, but the analogy eventually breaks down.

One could say the earth is like a jungle, where the strong prey on the weak
One could say the earth is like a convention for Con artists, where the deceitful prey on the gullible
One could say the earth is like a sheep pasture, where we are raised like livestock, mostly protected from the wolves by the shepherd, only so the shepherd can profit off our wool/energy, and eat us when we are no longer productive.

Etc. I'm not a fan of how the universe treats earth humans.

 

[Wintruz]

This Duguin guy knows what's up

He's a deranged, anti-life psychopath who wants Putin to use nuclear weapons on the West because we won't adhere to his insane Bolshevist drivel. His understanding of the Western writers he endlessly talks about (Crowley, Nietzsche, etc.) is embarrassingly shallow. He does not "know what's up".

I see this as a prison as many people here in this forum, however I would like to know how's your point of view.

I remember when I read Michael Kelly's book "apophis" he assured that the black wizards doesn't see this world as a prison where you have to escape. According to him the RHP practitioner are who see this world like that.

He had a perspective less radical, and even seem he hasn't problems with Born again if he has (he didn't mentioned this, just are my own suppositions according to that he wrote).

I remember this last was a shock for me, I mean, the biggest majority have the same point of view of this place.

Besides, I don't think that you have to be as the 218 current hating excessively this world, we should enjoy this material world as much as we are around, but, was shocking to find that there were magicians who believe that we're nothing but flesh and organs, since later on he wrote the there were every type of theories on the Temple of set practitioners behalf regarding what happens after death.

That made me open my mind, and know that not whole the LHP practitioners had the same perception of this reality.

Then I would like to know you point of view, and if it is possible why do you accept once and for all that I was the thruth?

Post automatically merged: Monday at 2:56 AM

I'm sorry for the grammatically errors, I wrote this without any previous preparation.

This in incoherent.

Michael Kelly, who is a personal friend, in common with most of the Temple of Set and most black magicians generally, indeed does not see the world as a prison. There is a complex relationship between spirit and matter on the Left Hand Path which closely parallels Indo-Aryan pagan traditions and their developments (such as Zoroastrianism). Basically there is no separation between the symbol and the symbolised. Life is good, the world is beautiful, enjoying it in a mature way gives us pleasure and pleasure makes us strong. There is a dark side to this world such as atrophy and death but these should be understood as part of the cycle of nature.

It is Abrahamism which tells us that nature is evil. This began with calumniating human nature and then extended into nature itself especially in certain forms of Gnosticism. All of this, as Nietzsche understood, is rooted in fear of strength and hatred of those without these neuroses. These attitudes are incompatible with the Left Hand Path. Yes, you can call yourself Left Hand Path while believing that life is a prison but it makes about as much sense as calling yourself Left Hand Path while praying for the Virgin Mary to make you a better Catholic.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

He's a deranged, anti-life psychopath who wants Putin to use nuclear weapons on the West because we won't adhere to his insane Bolshevist drivel. His understanding of the Western writers he endlessly talks about (Crowley, Nietzsche, etc.) is embarrassingly shallow. He does not "know what's up".

None of that had anything to do with the quote. Even a dead clock is right twice a day.

These attitudes are incompatible with the Left Hand Path.

You see absolutely no resolution between the act of becoming and the view of material reality as a prison for the incorporeal soul?

Do you not admire the ingenuity, the bravery, and talent that it takes to break out of a prison? Do you not see how it is the very necessity to break out that inspires and fosters the growth of these traits?

 

[Wintruz]

None of that had anything to do with the quote. Even a dead clock is right twice a day.

Saying someone "knows whats up" is not using the stopped clock metaphor. If you meant that, you should have said it. Conversely, if you didn't know who Dugin is and wrote something impulse, fine, just don't double down, learn the lesson and don't make the same mistake again.

ou see absolutely no resolution between the act of becoming and the view of material reality as a prison for the incorporeal soul?

Do you not admire the ingenuity, the bravery, and talent that it takes to break out of a prison? Do you not see how it is the very necessity to break out that inspires and fosters the growth of these traits?

No. Earning a PhD was sufficient for me to lose respect for wasting time on unnecessary, self-tortuous, mental gymnastics. Life is short and approaching what the fates actually give us with intelligence and awareness is challenge enough without playing games, many of which are actually about trying to escape the very thing, the very fate, in front of us. To say nothing of the repulsive, anti-life ideas they foster in impressionable others.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

if you didn't know who Dugin is and wrote something impulse, fine, just don't double down, learn the lesson and don't make the same mistake again.

It isn't a mistake, that quote still slaps, regardless of what he turned into he spoke truth at that moment. People love to say "NoBoDy'S pErFeCt" then go ahead and disqualify people the moment they've got a spotty record. I'm not going to say a quote is any less potent or true because it came from a cunt.

No

Fascinating. I do not envy your inflexibility, all I can say is enjoy not wasting your time while dancing in the daisy's.

 

[Wintruz]

Fascinating. I do not envy your inflexibility, all I can say is enjoy not wasting your time while dancing in the daisy's.

Perhaps that's one of many differences between us. I wouldn't see this as a waste of time and I would be present without neurotic fantasies of life in "material reality" being a burden. It's daisies by the way.

 

[Adamon]

He's a deranged, anti-life psychopath who wants Putin to use nuclear weapons on the West because we won't adhere to his insane Bolshevist drivel. His understanding of the Western writers he endlessly talks about (Crowley, Nietzsche, etc.) is embarrassingly shallow. He does not "know what's up".

This in incoherent.

Michael Kelly, who is a personal friend, in common with most of the Temple of Set and most black magicians generally, indeed does not see the world as a prison. There is a complex relationship between spirit and matter on the Left Hand Path which closely parallels Indo-Aryan pagan traditions and their developments (such as Zoroastrianism). Basically there is no separation between the symbol and the symbolised. Life is good, the world is beautiful, enjoying it in a mature way gives us pleasure and pleasure makes us strong. There is a dark side to this world such as atrophy and death but these should be understood as part of the cycle of nature.

It is Abrahamism which tells us that nature is evil. This began with calumniating human nature and then extended into nature itself especially in certain forms of Gnosticism. All of this, as Nietzsche understood, is rooted in fear of strength and hatred of those without these neuroses. These attitudes are incompatible with the Left Hand Path. Yes, you can call yourself Left Hand Path while believing that life is a prison but it makes about as much sense as calling yourself Left Hand Path while praying for the Virgin Mary to make you a better Catholic.

Well, well, well. I'm not denying this world is beautiful in many different ways. I'm not a 218 current who is always hating everything. Previously, I've criticized NAA 218, who is the living practitioner you don't have to be.

I say to hell—we're already here—so let's fuck, drink, laugh, and indulge in any worldly pleasure available. But I believe anyone with common sense will realize that this world is indeed not good.

That's the reason I could never follow the TOS system of beliefs. They're interesting, and that's all. I can't stand the life-worship they preach; it's just awful, disgusting, and unacceptable to me.

Besides, what the hell? How can you assure me this is incompatible with the LHP? You are free to quote as many philosophers as you want, but it's not going to prove you right. I am part of the vast majority on this path who seek to break all the chains imposed upon us.

"Yes, you can call yourself Left Hand Path while believing that life is a prison, but it makes about as much sense as calling yourself Left Hand Path while praying for the Virgin Mary to make you a better Catholic."

I don't want to seem like those fools who validate themselves through the majority, but it's true—you are calling a significant number of practitioners idiots, in short.

Postscript: "This is incoherent." That sounds like something a RHP practitioner would say, defining what "everything is" and what "everything is not." I believe it’s enough to have religions within a path that claims to seek individualism and freedom.

I would like to finish this with a quote from Faust by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe:

"I am the spirit that negates.
And rightly so, for all that comes to be
Deserves to perish wretchedly;
'Twere better nothing would begin.
Thus everything that your terms, sin,
Destruction, evil represent—
That is my proper element."

 

[IllusiveOwl]

a waste of time

That's an incorrect addition. In prison, you reflect, you grow, you struggle, you fight, and survive. The most cunning and daring are the ones who escape, the weak are corralled and the strong thrive. It sounds more like Earth the more I think on it. It isn't viewed as a waste of time for me, it's a frying pan, with fire waiting for those who can jump out. Every moment is precious, but every moment is, as G-Man said, dukkha.

It's daisies by the way.

You're the flower expert here after all, thank you for the correction, doctor.

 

[Wintruz]

You're the flower expert here after all, thank you for the correction, doctor.

OK. Yet another forum user to go into the "If you see them posting, cross the street" file. A shame. I think I remember you posting some thought-provoking things a few months back. Ah, well. Enjoy your daisy's.

Postscript: "This is incoherent." That sounds like something a RHP practitioner would say, defining what "everything is" and what "everything is not." I believe it’s enough to have religions within a path that claims to seek individualism and freedom.

You are free to believe whatever you like. I'm certainly not going to give time and energy to dislodging ideas that you want to hold onto. However, as any chaos magician would ask you (let alone anyone a little way down the Left Hand Path), the question is "What are your beliefs doing to you?". Our beliefs do effect us and any belief that weakens you, must contradict the Left Hand Path. Regardless of what external symbols are being used (Satanic, Setian, Vampyric, Tantric, Nazi, Odinist, "Qlippothic", etc., etc.), gaining strength is the essence of this.

Life in this world falls into two categories. There is human society and there is nature. Human society is terribly messed up (mostly because of how detached from nature it is) and part of early spiritual Work in every school is de-programming ourselves from the damage being born into human society has brought upon us. This de-preogramming allows us to live, actually live, aware that what is called "life" by society is in fact a simulation of Life. If by "the world is indeed not good" you're talking about human society, I don't disagree. Nature, on the other hand, is a different story. While it certainly has a dark, savage side, this exists on its margins, a brief intrusion and one that is necessary for Life to continue. All the rest is beauty and vitality. More than that, nature is the medium by which the numinous "speaks" to us.

If you wish to spend your limited time in this beautiful, strange world waiting for it to be over, you're going to be disappointed at the end and miserable in the meantime. The only way to achieve life after death is to Work with Life here and now.

you are calling a significant number of practitioners idiots, in short.

Oh my sweet summer child...

 

[IllusiveOwl]

OK. Yet another forum user to go into the "If you see them posting, cross the street" file.

I didn't mean that in a derogatory way. I was referring back to the comment you were grammatically correcting: you would be the expert on daisies because you spend so much time dancing in them in your LaLa Materialistic Wonderland. It's also an unconscious nod to Stephen Flowers, whom I'm sure you've read plenty of being a Set-Nose.

chaos magician would ask you (let alone anyone a little way down the Left Hand Path), the question is "What are your beliefs doing to you?". Our beliefs do effect us and any belief that weakens you, must contradict the Left Hand Path.

You're saying the same thing I have been saying. I say the belief that this world is a prison strengthens you, and the belief that things are dandy, you're safe, and have no reason to get off your couch weakens you to the point of living death. A pleasant worldview weakens, pacifies. You think a negative view of the world is exhausting and a waste of time, I'm not weakened by this worldview, I'm motivated by it to rise above it, above the standards I'm expected to meet, above what's thought of as possible for a human.

If you wish to spend your limited time in this beautiful, strange world waiting for it to be over, you're going to be disappointed at the end and miserable in the meantime. The only way to achieve life after death is to Work with Life here and now.

I admit, you show a shockingly secular, materialistic view. You genuinely think this is it? This small physical life is all, then you vanish? No wonder enlightenment didn't stick.

 

[Adamon]

OK. Yet another forum user to go into the "If you see them posting, cross the street" file. A shame. I think I remember you posting some thought-provoking things a few months back. Ah, well. Enjoy your daisy's.

You are free to believe whatever you like. I'm certainly not going to give time and energy to dislodging ideas that you want to hold onto. However, as any chaos magician would ask you (let alone anyone a little way down the Left Hand Path), the question is "What are your beliefs doing to you?". Our beliefs do effect us and any belief that weakens you, must contradict the Left Hand Path. Regardless of what external symbols are being used (Satanic, Setian, Vampyric, Tantric, Nazi, Odinist, "Qlippothic", etc., etc.), gaining strength is the essence of this.

Life in this world falls into two categories. There is human society and there is nature. Human society is terribly messed up (mostly because of how detached from nature it is) and part of early spiritual Work in every school is de-programming ourselves from the damage being born into human society has brought upon us. This de-preogramming allows us to live, actually live, aware that what is called "life" by society is in fact a simulation of Life. If by "the world is indeed not good" you're talking about human society, I don't disagree. Nature, on the other hand, is a different story. While it certainly has a dark, savage side, this exists on its margins, a brief intrusion and one that is necessary for Life to continue. All the rest is beauty and vitality. More than that, nature is the medium by which the numinous "speaks" to us.

If you wish to spend your limited time in this beautiful, strange world waiting for it to be over, you're going to be disappointed at the end and miserable in the meantime. The only way to achieve life after death is to Work with Life here and now.

Oh my sweet summer child...

It's funny that my English teacher asked me today if I liked to bother people.

Well, @Wintruz I hope you haven't taken it personally.

@IllusiveOwl
@Mannimarco

Thanks for making this interesting. Stop fighting, this was the most improvise post I've made, just was inspired in a reddit post I watched.

I Just wanted to know different points of view, and I guess even me forgot what was the purpose of this.

Everyone here should've done what I did with the RHP people above (where I posted the duguin's quote).

Anyway, was funny and intense, keep posting your opinions people.