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Jealousy and its destructive consequences

Stonehaven

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Galatians 5:19-21 ¶ 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; 20 idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Is jealousy/envy firmly rooted in evolutionary psychology and what are the far reaching consequences in the modern world.

Note: "Jealousy" and "envy" are distinct and separate, but the terms are usually interchangeably in common parlance.
 

Morell

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Okay, this might be triggering to some, just saying that in advance...

Evolutionary... Well...
In the angle of evolition and biology jealousy makes a lot of sense.

Biological reason for jealousy is to preserve your genes and exactly your genes. Meaning that you are not rising child of someone else, therefore wasting energy and time that you could use to raise your own children. When woman gives birth, the child is always hers. For a men that certainty is not there, so he in order to ensure the baby is his must be jealous and make sure that other men cannot get to impregnate his woman.

And then consider the fact that people would practicaly always preffer their own childern to adoption. Even infertile people usually refuse to adopt kids. Stilll same evolutionary work of nature making sure of preserving your own genes.

And women and jealousy? She has to make sure that she has a guy with her that will help her to raise a kid. It takes a lot of efford, so she needs to keep the guy so that she is not alone. Guys do not like that much to mate with sigle women who already have a kid, that is not their own.

This all is hardwired into us. Of course not same strongly in everyone, but it is there.

Envy, well that is realising that someone else has more than you, that their biology, genetics, or simple luck are offering them advantages over you, also biologicaly menaing that they are more likely to survive and spread their genes more than you. So I can see biology there too.

The consequences are... well, survival of the fittest. (not always the strongest!) In the modern world... that's hard for me to say, as I'm not interested in mating and breeding. So I'll let that to others...
 

AlfrunGrima

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For some people it feels, when another person has more than they have, quite confronting. It confronts them with the struggles they have in their own life. I think that is real thing. Pulling yourself out of the swamp and make things better is not a process that everyone is capable of so they feel jealous instead. Kind of have enough or be jealous.

Having enough from everything once was something that people needed to survive>> and in a lot of places in the world that is still the case. Even if you take a human out of that situation, it will be a natural instinct. And then you get funny/strange things as people who were in the beginning of the Corona period buying absurd quantities of toilet paper. A natural/biological instinct that in fact in that case served nothing. I am sure there are more examples like this.

I think someone who is jealous very often, surfs on his/hers biological instincts more often.
 

KjEno186

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The primary difference between envy and jealousy lies in their focus: envy involves desiring something that someone else has, while jealousy stems from the fear of losing something one already possesses. Perhaps it's not too far-fetched to call the Democratic party the Envy party and the Republican party the Jealousy party. I've read the description of the former as "get free shit" and the latter as "get your hands off my shit." But I digress. This isn't a political discussion.

"Within a few years of starting my first company, I spent more time looking sideways than I did forward. I was looking for ways to measure success and finding them everywhere. The kid at the coffee shop with a higher-end laptop. The founder with more prestigious V[enture] C[apital] backing. The entrepreneurs who didn’t seem like they were trying so hard, for whom success seemed to come naturally. I secretly resented all of them.​
"The old-fashioned word for that experience is 'envy.' 'I think the reason we talk so much about sex is that we don’t dare talk about envy,' [Rene] Girard said. Envy is an engine of destructive mimetic desire, and there are few things to stop it because it operates underground. Prestige is measured relative to what we perceive someone else has that we lack, so it’s a breeding ground for envy." - Wanting by Luke Burgis​
In a sense, according to Girard's theory of Mimetic Desire, envy is the engine that creates economic growth in the present system. In a nutshell, we want things because we observe others having those things. But there's a bit more nuance to that since, for example, unless you happen to be in the billionaire club, you don't envy someone like Bezos or the Pope in the same manner that you envy someone who got hired at the same time as you in your office job getting the promotion you think you deserve. Mimetic rivalries are the root of scandals and spur an ever more complicated web of rivalries.

"Envy, jealousy, and hate render alike those they possess, but in our world people tend to misunderstand or ignore the resemblances and identities that these passions generate. They have ears only for the deceptive celebration of differences, which rages more than ever in our societies, not because real differences are increasing but because they are disappearing." - I See Satan Fall Like Lightning by Rene Girard​

Girard wrote of the "war of all against all." This "war of all against all" becomes a "war of all against one" via the Scapegoat process. The scapegoat can be an innocent individual (or relatively small group) upon which the greater society directs its pent up rivalries. The destruction of this victim acts like a transmutation of widespread rivalry, scandal, and violence into peace, for a time.

"THE DEVIL, OR SATAN, signifies rivalistic contagion, up to and including the single victim mechanism. He may be located either in the entire process or in one of its stages. Modern exegetes, not recognizing the mimetic cycle, have the impression that since the word 'Satan' means so many different things, it no longer means anything. This impression is deceptive. If we take up one by one the propositions I have analyzed, we easily see that this teaching is coherent. Far from being too absurd to deserve our attention, this Gospel theme contains incomparable knowledge of human conflict and the societies that are generated by the violent resolution of such conflict. Everything I have said about Satan corresponds to what the prior analysis of scandals enables us to understand. When the trouble caused by Satan becomes too great, Satan himself becomes his own antidote of sorts: he stirs up the mimetic snowballing and then the unanimous violence that makes everything peaceful once again." - I See Satan Fall Like Lightning by Girard​
 

Stonehaven

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Biological reason for jealousy is to preserve your genes and exactly your genes. Meaning that you are not rising child of someone else, therefore wasting energy and time that you could use to raise your own children. When woman gives birth, the child is always hers. For a men that certainty is not there, so he in order to ensure the baby is his must be jealous and make sure that other men cannot get to impregnate his woman.

And then consider the fact that people would practicaly always preffer their own childern to adoption. Even infertile people usually refuse to adopt kids. Stilll same evolutionary work of nature making sure of preserving your own genes.

This all is hardwired into us. Of course not same strongly in everyone, but it is there.
Is the individual level still relevant to the societal level, so that opposition to race mixing is much more widespread than many have assumed?

Does jealousy still operate on a collective/societal level because nobody wants their genetic pool to be diluted, and many believe that it's far better to take extra precautionary measures than to be sorry?

Are people more likely to be jealous of perceived "outsiders" whose reproductive success is likely to "taint" the genetic pool (presupposing that there would be any change at all)?
 

Morell

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Is the individual level still relevant to the societal level, so that opposition to race mixing is much more widespread than many have assumed?

Does jealousy still operate on a collective/societal level because nobody wants their genetic pool to be diluted, and many believe that it's far better to take extra precautionary measures than to be sorry?

Are people more likely to be jealous of perceived "outsiders" whose reproductive success is likely to "taint" the genetic pool (presupposing that there would be any change at all)?
We are starting to combine biology with culture... But it is still to the topic so I'll answer. Yes to all, unfortunaltely...

First we need to understand that society is a group of individuals sharing values, traditions and language, history and other stuff for generations. So what goes on personal level goes for society too. (however it has nothing to do with races, rather with cultures and societies)

To your second question, damn yeah. I'll speak about Europe mainly because I know Europe the best in this matter. In male dominated society women become second grade citizens, having way more restrictions than men (like purity culture) and are way worse punished than men. (when the lovers in history here made love and were caught, man was send to slave work for few months, woman was murdered)

For the pracautions, there were many. For women of high standing neutered men were used to guard them from other men, but their genitals were removed to prevent the obvious. Another well known measure were metalic underwear, that allowed WC needs but prevented lovemaking. Also I know that in Africa were measures like sewing womans genitals. Also cutting external parts of womans genitals off. This especially made lovemaking painful for a woman for the rest of her life, well rpeventing sex and masturbation, but also causing health and mental issues because of unfulfilled body need. Needless to say that religious reasons were made up too. That is why catholic church invented the theology that original sin came from woman (not from the devil) and therefore all women are damed to go to hell unless they are loyla to the man they marry and have babies. That is the only way they can save themselves.

Or among Arabs women are kept locked at home and must go out only guarded with male family members or other woman, again to prevent that only think, that she cannot have baby with someone she is not allowed to by men. Isolation then degenerates her brain so then the Muslims have int heir holy book mention that woman is only half human, how coulsd she be fully developed when she was isolated fromt he world, enied possibility to develop into full human being? But it prevents her from being able to survive alone, so she cannot run and since she is contantly guarded, outside man hopefuly cannot get to her and impregnate her.

So yeah, a lot of measures, stronger or weaker were and are still used to dominate women by men who want to ensure that they will have only their babies. In the end all these religious traditions, society traditions, purity cultures... all serve this one thing - evolutionary desire to breed and ensure survival of mens offspring. Nothing spiritual about it what so ever. No god ever ordered that. It came out of animal nature of humans, even if we do not realise it.

And about guys from outside of the group? Well, guy that is unusual or rare tends to be atractive to women, especialy if it is some sort of "bad boy." The reason being that such guy who can survive in harsher conditions tends to be stronger and therefore real competition to men who need group to be able to make a stand...

I'll add another irony. Man has it easier to spread his genes and are also tempted by women, but also they are far less punished by love making to more women. That is why in these "putiry obsessed cultures" we have whore-houses. Men are never much blamed for visiting them, but those women themselves, who get the bad luck of being there are the lowest cast of society. Defintiely that was true at middleages Europe. Even churches were way more willing to help beggars with black death than prostitutes. Churches willing to help these women,w ho weren't married and payed for food with their body, were often refused help by nuns, or any clergy in fact.

That should answer your questions.
 

KjEno186

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I will point out that the thread is posted in the religion and spirituality forum, and OP began the discussion with a scripture. If the OP wanted a discussion of envy from an Evolutionary perspective, perhaps the Philosophy and Psychology subforum would have been more appropriate. This topic doesn't deal with the occult or magic as it relates to spiritual and religious practices.
 

Morell

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I will point out that the thread is posted in the religion and spirituality forum, and OP began the discussion with a scripture. If the OP wanted a discussion of envy from an Evolutionary perspective, perhaps the Philosophy and Psychology subforum would have been more appropriate. This topic doesn't deal with the occult or magic as it relates to spiritual and religious practices.
I agree, it should be moved.
Post automatically merged:

Is jealousy/envy firmly rooted in evolutionary psychology and what are the far reaching consequences in the modern world.
It was about evolution from the begining.
 

Stonehaven

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Envy, well that is realising that someone else has more than you, that their biology, genetics, or simple luck are offering them advantages over you, also biologicaly menaing that they are more likely to survive and spread their genes more than you. So I can see biology there too.
How is envy manifested according to biology? Does envy cause a sufferer to undermine his victim, or to attack his victim?
 
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