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John Dee's Empire of Angels: A Fringe Theory Orgasm

Joined
Apr 17, 2021
Messages
152
Points
43
So I recently listened to a podcast interview at work, where the author Jason Louv talks about his book centered around John Dee. Basically it's this whole big patchwork of investigation on his part, into John Dee's life. In particular, it delves into the idea that John Dee's contributions for moving Britain forward as a political power, and his work creating the Enochian system, are not totally unrelated events. I honestly haven't made up my mind whether anything this author is trying to conclude holds any water, as I haven't read the book yet and therefore wouldn't be able to pick apart his claims.

HOWEVER, it is quite an interesting thread of speculation! Basically John Dee might have been the first person to coin the term, "British Empire", and who actually thought Britain had potential on the world stage. There's also the incident with the Spanish fleet, where Dee accurately predicting the weather might've outright knocked Spain down in the colonial arms race for Britain to charge ahead.

Then, as this train of logic goes, toward the end of his life Dee was motivated as part of a much bigger picture. Specifically, that the "angels" he and Edward Kelley contacted were using them for an agenda. And that agenda entailed that the British Empire would be kicked off, even though Britain itself was still a pretty poor/unimportant country on the world stage at this time. Louv gets into a bunch of other things as well, like Dee wanting to bring about the events of Revelations/thinking that's what he would be doing, etc. But what I think is food for thought enough, is how much one dude might've entirely turned the course of world history! Because damn. If Great Britain didn't become so Great, a loooot of shit would've ended up much different, for better or for worse. America becoming a country in the way it did, all the places Britain colonized and then decolonized, the opium crisis and all bad business shit they did in China, (or India for that matter) Protestant monarchs becoming more powerful in Europe because Britain endorsed it, the Jacobite risings and all that shit, the Industrial Revolution, WW1, WW2 and the Holocaust. Like damn, it's such an interesting thought to entertain as far as fringe theories go.

But also, since I know from my own experience a bit about how agenda-driven angels can be and the indirect ways they like to operate, I really could imagine shit going down because of one of their schemes. "Angel logic" as I like to call it, is in fact a very convoluted process that you really can't always guess the end result of. So no matter why they might've wanted to just casually fuck with the entire human race like that, the idea isn't as far-fetched as some others I've heard of.

What's y'all's take on it?
 

Samurael/Dusk

Neophyte
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
13
Points
3
Dee died in poverty because he sold the idea to do this to every empire in Europe and they all turned him down. He did do some spying/spymastering for Britain earlier in his life tho.
 

Lemongrass00

Apprentice
Joined
Apr 28, 2021
Messages
57
Points
18
It’s definitely true that Dee and Kelley had motives that the angels knew and used those motives to continue the deliverance of the Enochian system to man. For Kelley he was motivated by material riches and discovering hidden alchemical secrets that were teased by the angels, and by Dee the knowledge from the tables containing power to influence politics. Especially in regards to some of the angels being in charge of influencing certain political affairs and this was told to Dee to keep him on the hook

There is a popular theory that the Enochian angels are apocalyptic and the goal of Enochian Magick being to activate Armageddon.

One interesting thing about Enochian is how gnostic the angels appear to be but that’s a separate discussion.
 

The God-King

Apprentice
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
65
Points
33
It’s definitely true that Dee and Kelley had motives that the angels knew and used those motives to continue the deliverance of the Enochian system to man. For Kelley he was motivated by material riches and discovering hidden alchemical secrets that were teased by the angels, and by Dee the knowledge from the tables containing power to influence politics. Especially in regards to some of the angels being in charge of influencing certain political affairs and this was told to Dee to keep him on the hook

There is a popular theory that the Enochian angels are apocalyptic and the goal of Enochian Magick being to activate Armageddon.

One interesting thing about Enochian is how gnostic the angels appear to be but that’s a separate discussion.
This. This is what I was taught about the Enochian entities......they are Forces of Creation and the entities ("angels"?) God allegedly used to carry out the actual creation of the universe. God spoke and the Enochian entities did the manual labor. The theory that they are trying to bring about the Abrahamic armageddon......I'd say it's legit. What other motive would they have for giving us access to such power? Many who have actually worked through Enochian magic usually report swift results but at the expense of issues further down the line. And not in the traditional "be careful what you wish for" type BS the New Age tries to inject into legit occult teachings. This is precisely the reason I have yet to even venture down the path of practical work with Enochian. Shit scares the fuck outta me and IDC who knows it lol.
 

The God-King

Apprentice
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
65
Points
33
So I recently listened to a podcast interview at work, where the author Jason Louv talks about his book centered around John Dee. Basically it's this whole big patchwork of investigation on his part, into John Dee's life. In particular, it delves into the idea that John Dee's contributions for moving Britain forward as a political power, and his work creating the Enochian system, are not totally unrelated events. I honestly haven't made up my mind whether anything this author is trying to conclude holds any water, as I haven't read the book yet and therefore wouldn't be able to pick apart his claims.

HOWEVER, it is quite an interesting thread of speculation! Basically John Dee might have been the first person to coin the term, "British Empire", and who actually thought Britain had potential on the world stage. There's also the incident with the Spanish fleet, where Dee accurately predicting the weather might've outright knocked Spain down in the colonial arms race for Britain to charge ahead.

Then, as this train of logic goes, toward the end of his life Dee was motivated as part of a much bigger picture. Specifically, that the "angels" he and Edward Kelley contacted were using them for an agenda. And that agenda entailed that the British Empire would be kicked off, even though Britain itself was still a pretty poor/unimportant country on the world stage at this time. Louv gets into a bunch of other things as well, like Dee wanting to bring about the events of Revelations/thinking that's what he would be doing, etc. But what I think is food for thought enough, is how much one dude might've entirely turned the course of world history! Because damn. If Great Britain didn't become so Great, a loooot of shit would've ended up much different, for better or for worse. America becoming a country in the way it did, all the places Britain colonized and then decolonized, the opium crisis and all bad business shit they did in China, (or India for that matter) Protestant monarchs becoming more powerful in Europe because Britain endorsed it, the Jacobite risings and all that shit, the Industrial Revolution, WW1, WW2 and the Holocaust. Like damn, it's such an interesting thought to entertain as far as fringe theories go.

But also, since I know from my own experience a bit about how agenda-driven angels can be and the indirect ways they like to operate, I really could imagine shit going down because of one of their schemes. "Angel logic" as I like to call it, is in fact a very convoluted process that you really can't always guess the end result of. So no matter why they might've wanted to just casually fuck with the entire human race like that, the idea isn't as far-fetched as some others I've heard of.

What's y'all's take on it?
Sort of related, sort of not: Jay Dyer has a WONDERFUL channel on Youtube where he discusses proven "conspiracy theories" such as seemingly unimportant figures in history (he mainly discusses occult figures such as Crowley, Parsons, Aquino, etc) actually having immense sway in politics throughout history. Warning, he is an Orthodox Christian and has a lot of content on his channel about this. As a GT magician this doesn't sway me at all, but some may not like this. So be warned that he mixes his geopolitical videos with his religious and conspiritorial videos.
 

Lemongrass00

Apprentice
Joined
Apr 28, 2021
Messages
57
Points
18
This. This is what I was taught about the Enochian entities......they are Forces of Creation and the entities ("angels"?) God allegedly used to carry out the actual creation of the universe. God spoke and the Enochian entities did the manual labor. The theory that they are trying to bring about the Abrahamic armageddon......I'd say it's legit. What other motive would they have for giving us access to such power? Many who have actually worked through Enochian magic usually report swift results but at the expense of issues further down the line. And not in the traditional "be careful what you wish for" type BS the New Age tries to inject into legit occult teachings. This is precisely the reason I have yet to even venture down the path of practical work with Enochian. Shit scares the fuck outta me and IDC who knows it lol.
Exactly. It’s alleged that the Enochian chants to access the elemental tablets are keys used to bring about the end times. Apparently if the watchtowers, which are postulated to represent the order and balance of the universe (figurative or literal?) are ever breached by Chronozon (Enochian Satan) then the balance will be broken and Chronozon will be able to reign on earth again (physical or by influencing the mind of man is still up for debate) it’s definitely an interesting discussion.

also TGK, do you believe the GD would implement Enochian into its core teachings if they believed it was apocalyptic? Perhaps they just didn’t realize it? Definitely an interesting subject.
 

The God-King

Apprentice
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
65
Points
33
Exactly. It’s alleged that the Enochian chants to access the elemental tablets are keys used to bring about the end times. Apparently if the watchtowers, which are postulated to represent the order and balance of the universe (figurative or literal?) are ever breached by Chronozon (Enochian Satan) then the balance will be broken and Chronozon will be able to reign on earth again (physical or by influencing the mind of man is still up for debate) it’s definitely an interesting discussion.

also TGK, do you believe the GD would implement Enochian into its core teachings if they believed it was apocalyptic? Perhaps they just didn’t realize it? Definitely an interesting subject.
In my opinion the GD don't know about those theories or if they do, they give no credence to them. However, I do not study the GD much outside of the few texts I read by the Cicero's, Regardie, and a few others.
 
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