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Jungian Individuation, or How Not to be a Space(d) Monkey

Asteriskos

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I am liking this idea more and more ! I think that is an under explored area , and a great research topic for us to deep dive on.
Sounds like a plan in the making, and one that I had hoped to someday tackle. I know some ex OTO members (casual through friends).
I'm not a thelemite but I've cherry-picked pieces over the years, I know about the 'Eye in the Triangle' debacle and from their viewpoint they're justified. So yeah, it's a great idea, there's some real impressive ideas and folks that got me into this thread (better late than never)!
I have a bad habit of defraying myself real thin at times so I'd like to put a wrap on some of that stuff, if I get involved in a project like you have in mind I damned sure want to focus on it first, and other things, "et al". That's just me though. I somehow committed myself (read acted before thinking, duh) to some sort of "holiday" content thing. (got a little started today though).

What kind of time frame do you think would be good to start it up?
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What kind of time frame do you think would be good to start it up?
I'd much rather get in on this than any contest, I don't need money or prizes, that's what Magick is for, someone else can put it better use.
Soon as I catch my breath and (maybe a double bourbon), I can be ready to go!
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I don't need money or prizes, that's what Magick is for, someone else can put it better use.
Assuming I could win something anyhow! :ROFLMAO:
 
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Morell

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Fight Club is explained by Rene Girard's theory of Mimetic Desire quite well. It's a cleaner and better fit than all the connections being woven in the Space Monkey video. People desire what they see others desiring. The protagonist admits to desiring the objects of upper middle class consumerist lifestyle before his disillusionment. Mimesis operates on the peer level most strongly, which fits with the human tendency to adhere to class structures. This also relates to the mob mentality as long as the object of desire can be shared by many without rivalry. Mimetic contagion happens, and we as individuals do not actually recognize its operation in our common affairs. We want what we see other people want, and we are ironically convinced that what we want is our own self-motivated desire.

The protagonist at first seeks solace among society's victims. Girard states, "The unique character of modern times is revealed in the fact that, in the competition for public opinion, the position of the victim is now the most desirable. It is no longer the ancient posture of a suppliant struggling to arouse pity, but a claim for legal and even extra-legal rights." - p 108, Job: The Victim of His People

There is some irony that in the movie support groups exist for countless maladies, except insomnia! He is reduced to the passive role of the 'tourist' in all the groups he attends, but he can cope as long as he gets his dose of catharsis. He sees himself as a victim and desires the object of victimhood that the support groups model. Along comes Marla. She is also a 'tourist' and becomes a mimetic rival to the protagonist. She sees herself as a victim, too, but again there is no specific support group for her. Furthermore, she models an honesty that the protagonist cannot allow himself. She clearly doesn't care that she doesn't belong in the support groups. Her freedom from shame stirs up a righteous indignation in the protagonist that he can do nothing about because of his own hypocrisy. In this case of mimetic rivalry, they strike a deal.

The "space monkeys'" desire for freedom from the greater society causes them to "latch onto" the apparently self-actualized man who models such freedom, effectively exchanging one form of slavery for another. Yet without understanding the nature of mimesis, they "latch onto" the one they see as more powerful, placing him in a higher class. The nameless protagonist desires the admiration that Tyler generates in others which initiates a mimetic rivalry. Mimetic conflict occurs most easily among those of the same class, and the protagonist sees himself on the same level as Tyler with respect to the founding of Fight Club. The protagonist considers himself above the "space monkeys" because he perceives a special relationship with Tyler, and in his own way Tyler acknowledges this fact.

All the mumbo-jumbo about death in the video above is merely a distraction for what actually motivates the characters in Fight Club. Except for Robert Paulson. He becomes an model of desire upon his death, which is very useful to the cult mentality being cultivated by Tyler. Only through death do they get their names, their individuality back. The desire for freedom was subverted into loss of individuality. At the critical moment of doubt upon Robert's death, a new subversion is introduced: freedom through death.

Tyler wants to blow up the banks so that people can be "free". Where does Tyler's desire come from. Who is the model of his desire? It's clear from the movie that Tyler already does what he wants whether or not there are banks, police, corporations, governments. We're never given any specific details. The protagonist on the other hand wants to prevent Tyler's plan from coming to fruition. His desires have been modeled by the greater society that he was raised in, the very same society which made him into a consumer working for a corrupt car company. On the surface, he cares about the value of human life and private property, but the movie shows in a subversive way that the system he is part of allows violence and destruction to the extent that it doesn't interfere with corporate profits. It is a veneer of morality and ethics.

Girard's theory states that the conflicts or scandals induced by competing desires escalate into a war of all against all until things reach a state of crisis. At this point the scapegoat mechanism triggers a war of all against one. The destruction of the one (or group) consumes the energy built up in the community, creating a catharsis that restores peace for a period of time. The protagonist's 'war' with Tyler results in a catharsis, but the movie subverts the process. The scapegoat only appeared to exist in the protagonist's mind. He was his own object of desire and his own enemy as well.
Some really good points there!
 

Asteriskos

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When I use the word " magic" I usually only mean for sorcery. Spiritual elevation I file under Mysticism and Mystical Theology, and I have other practices for those. Both are great , but post Reformation and post 1899, something happened to confuse the two.
This is interesting and original. Some people consider their theurgy as encompassing mysticism, and thaumaturgy encompassing or equivalent to sorcery. There's something to be said for the pure dichotomy of Magic and Mysticism as well.
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Tremendous amount of insight, analysis and formidable intelligence all around going on in this thread. When you folks decide to express yourselves I gotta say it's impressive in it's entirety! So much good participation. Seriously thought provoking stuff here!
 
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MorganBlack

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This is interesting and original.
I know from the 10,000 sephira view it's a bit of an artificial distinction, but can be a useful lens down here.

I wish it was original to me. It precedes me in New World sorcery traditions. When a Haitian bokor talks about "magic" (pronounced "mah-jee") what they mean by that looks pretty much nothing like most Anglophone magic folks think of when using the same word.

And what they mean by "witchcraft" looks nothing like modern pagan "wishcraft."

It may have some classical pedigree. Again these are a bit artificial, but in practice it's useful to separate:
1. getting shit done
from
2. "the spiritual practices I do to prepare myself to get shit done"


Magic / Sorcery is deeply chthonic.
See Stephen Skinner's Michael Psellus on the Operation of Daemons
"The classical Greek view however is that the demons occupy the space between the heavens and earth, and are therefore sub-lunurary or under the Moon."

I don't know if the causal agent of American mind mysticism works at this level . Maybe? Either way , most of the people who are practicing modern pagan "wishcraft" do not think of it as chthonic, which suits me just fine. :)
 
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