Just another Qabbalah thread

[Sunnylil]

It's actually an awfully long story but I hope this tiny bit helps a little.

Thank you. Yes, I’ve come to the same realization — that you have to follow your inner voice and look for what resonates most deeply with your soul. It’s the same with the language of the Psalms — choosing the one that feels closest to you, that brings the desired state of the soul.

By the way, Psalm 113 in Old Slavonic (114 according to the Masoretic text) used to give me kind of prophetic dreams. But the energy was very heavy, oppressive — I’d wake up feeling as if I’d been tortured. So I stopped reading it.

Here too, it’s important to find your own way through trial and error.

Post automatically merged: Oct 12, 2025

In the books that I practice there is an exercise to connect with the Higher Self and to close the Aura for Psychic Selfdefense which involve the first 8 Psalms and that they correspond the the Planetary Sephiroth, the first Psalm corresponds to Earth/Malkuth and the 8th one corresponds to Saturn/Binah, I think it is called "The Kathisma", I could also have 8 candles with the colors of the respective Sephiroth and light them up every time I read a Psalm.
This exercise is from Ogdoadic Magick book by the Ordo Aurum Solis, can you tell me anything about this kind of practice please, I actually read the Psalms in spanish because I could not do so in Hebrew.

If you’re drawn to Western KQbbalah and are looking for protection, you could start with the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. Only after you’ve fully mastered and felt it you could add the Middle Pillar Ritual.
I practiced them for quite a while — they provide excellent protection and bring harmony. I performed them using the Divine Names in Hebrew. Choose the version that feels right for you, since some practitioners work, for example, with Egyptian deities instead.

And for protection, Psalm 91 (Masoretic
numbering) is one of the most powerful. You could begin by reading it in your native language to truly feel its essence, and later read it in Hebrew — even just through transliteration, that will already be beneficial.

In fact, any psalm brings harmony. Yes, there are traditional associations — that certain psalms correspond to specific intentions — but even reading just one psalm regularly will help. Or you can read them all in sequence, going through all 150, and then start again from the beginning. Or doing The Kathisma. Try which resonates more.

There are actually many techniques. The main thing is to find your own — to feel what resonates with you most strongly. It’s really a matter of trial and error. What matters most is sincerity. Candles and ritual tools are meant, among other things, to help you enter an altered state of consciousness.

It’s important to understand that nothing literally “comes” to us from the outside world. Rather, we — by changing our perception — find ourselves “on the other side” (in quotation marks, since the idea of “here” and “there” is a separate topic of study).

The key is to believe without a trace of doubt. But I’m not really a good adviser here, since I’ve stepped away from these practices.

As for connecting planets with the sefirot, from the standpoint of Traditional Kabbalah:

The Sefirot are manifestations of the Divine, not cosmic bodies.

The planets belong to Assiah (the World of Action), while Binah is in Olam ha-Briah (the World of Creation).

They cannot be mixed.

In other words, identifying the Sefirot with planets is kind of a profanation — a simplification that reduces spiritual levels to physical bodies.

But in planetary magic magicians connect and they claim to have good results.

Post automatically merged: Oct 12, 2025

In the books that I practice there is an exercise to connect with the Higher Self and to close the Aura for Psychic Selfdefense which involve the first 8 Psalms and that they correspond the the Planetary Sephiroth, the first Psalm corresponds to Earth/Malkuth and the 8th one corresponds to Saturn/Binah, I think it is called "The Kathisma",

This exercise is from Ogdoadic Magick book by the Ordo Aurum Solis, can you tell me anything about this kind of practice please, I actually read the Psalms in spanish because I could not do so in Hebrew.

As for planetary magic I can only say this: if you decide to practice planetary magic, you need to immerse yourself completely in it — for example, when working with Saturn (I’ll explain at the end why connecting it to Binah is quite questionable).

So, you would need to perform a ritual with Saturn. Choose an appropriate day, hour, and minute for it — ideally when, according to planetary magic, Saturn exerts its strongest influence. Many practitioners also take into account the moon’s phase — waxing or waning.
Let’s say that according to your calculations, the perfect alignment of all these factors will occur two months from now. Time is set. Then study the myth of Saturn thoroughly. Immerse yourself in Saturn’s symbolism — its colors, stones, metals, plants, everything that can be associated with the Saturnian myth.

In daily life, start noticing Saturn’s manifestations everywhere — someone in grey clothes, an elderly person, a bit of grim news, a heavy conversation — that’s all Saturn. This way, you accumulate Saturn’s energy. Methodically, patiently. You don’t perform any rituals yet; you just collect and wait.

When the day and hour finally come, you are filled to the brim with that energy. You light the candles, your altar is decorated with every Saturn-related item you could find, and with full sincerity you give yourself completely to the ritual. And that’s it.


Then comes the period of silence. You keep living your life without obsessing over results. Time will show whether it worked or not. There have been people who said it did.

And so it goes with any magical ritual. If I understood correctly, you’re interested in the magical aspect — since Western Qabbalah is more about magic (with all the consequences that come with it).


The same principle applies to any technique — a methodical, meticulous immersion into the myth/archetype of a deity, angel, or demon. No rush. Tedious, repetitive work until those “forces” notice you. Many people give up after just a month or two of practice. That’s why it’s so important to find what truly resonates with your soul — otherwise you’ll drop it quickly.

The only people I’ve met who claimed to have consciously connected with their Higher Self said it happened once or twice after many years of practice. Dreams are another matter. I mean entering an altered state of mind while fully awake.

One practitioner told me he regularly spends hours in complete darkness, meditating by candlelight while chanting random names and sounds. So it’s definitely not something achieved in the first year of practice. And one must have a very strong psyche to avoid losing their mind.

I’ve also seen people on forums who awakened kundalini carelessly and then suffered from hallucinations and waking nightmares — leading to psychosis.

Just this summer I met a clairaudient woman who experiences audial contact with otherworldly entities daily, but she constantly fears that it might be schizophrenia. She keeps looking for proof that her predictions come true, and when they don’t, her anxiety about her mental health only grows stronger.
So one need to be very careful with any magical practice. Hope this helps.

 

[Ziran]

But with regards to Jewish Kabbalah in the historical material sense, I tend to relate the gradual developments toward the French and Spanish explosion to the attempt to reclaim methods of Isrealite prophecy which had been lost with the destruction of the Jewish Temple

" ... in the historical material sense ... "

Forgive the interjection? Here, you're referring to the extent genizah fragments?

If so, I'm curious? I've been referring to the " ...attempt to reclaim methods of Isrealite prophecy which had been lost with the destruction of the Jewish Temple" as the "Rigorous Academic Definition" of Kabalah, in contrast with Kabalah, unqualified, which is a general category of Hebraic inspired esoteric principles and practices.

Your thoughts and feedback on this will be greatly appreciated if you choose to share them.

Sincerely,

 

[stalkinghyena]

Here, you're referring to the extent genizah fragments?

Not specifically no. In fact, I recently only found out what a genizah was from Sledge in his current series on Merkavah mysticism. I was just thinking broadly in terms of the timeline of Kabbalah as a historical movement of "verifiable" persons and texts opposed to the mythical. Admittedly, there is a lot I don't know and new stuff keeps popping up - and Kabbalah has been a part of my esoteric life since I was a kid. Imperfectly, yes...

I've been referring to the " ...attempt to reclaim methods of Isrealite prophecy which had been lost with the destruction of the Jewish Temple" as the "Rigorous Academic Definition" of Kabalah

It's one of the lines that has been presented to me, though I hope I did not come off as rigorous as far as my views are concerned. I take "historical materialism" as still essentially propositional. As a guideline in reading actual Kabbalists like Abulafia or Vital, it's helpful in understanding motivations when gazing further on toward the apocalyptic mode. I think this applies to Christian and Hermetic styles as well.

in contrast with Kabalah, unqualified, which is a general category of Hebraic inspired esoteric principles and practices.

I see the academic as supplemental to actual practice, an alternative body of narratives that can provide a context for grasping the subject. There is so much within study of the scholarship and then the actual Kabbalah itself which splits off into bountiful directions. Ultimately for me it is the epistemological spiritual poetry of a type of metaphysical cartography with ever unfolding potential.

 

[MorganBlack]

Damn, guys!!! So good!

Please do write up a tutorial for the rest of us!

I use the psalms , which are stunningly effective, but in very New World sorcerous / demiurgic Folk Catholic way. I keep meaning to read more Orthodox practices and others but never seem to find the time.

 

[Sabbatius]

The roots of Kabbalah- are subjective in creation. Much can be seen in Merkabah and Hekhalot mysticism. One simple fact to all of this is no matter how much we try to extend the Kabbalah all the way to the time of Noah, it was nowhere near seen in any literature until the text of the Zohar. There are hints in Hekhalot work, Merkabah practice but no defined work until the Zohar. So, I highly doubt the Egyptian root for the study and practice.

Egypt may have been a huge influence for a lot of things in the Levant, but not the Kabbalah.

 

[Audiolog Edu]

The roots of Kabbalah- are subjective in creation. Much can be seen in Merkabah and Hekhalot mysticism. One simple fact to all of this is no matter how much we try to extend the Kabbalah all the way to the time of Noah, it was nowhere near seen in any literature until the text of the Zohar. There are hints in Hekhalot work, Merkabah practice but no defined work until the Zohar. So, I highly doubt the Egyptian root for the study and practice.

Egypt may have been a huge influence for a lot of things in the Levant, but not the Kabbalah.

Im going to try to express myself the best way posible, in one of the Aurum Solis books I have "Entrance to the Magical Qabbalah" they explain that the Kabbalist took influence from the Hermetic text but not the other way around, it also says that even tho the writer of the Hermetic text could have known of the Kabbalah, his writtings (Hermetic writtings) are from a diferent philosophy.

The person that I heard he stated that maybe the Hebrew people took the Kabbalah from the Egyptians is a Youtube Occultist, I belive some of his stuff but not all of it, he hides some knowledge and even likes to confuse, that is why I asked about it, thank you sir.

In daily life, start noticing Saturn’s manifestations everywhere — someone in grey clothes, an elderly person, a bit of grim news, a heavy conversation — that’s all Saturn. This way, you accumulate Saturn’s energy. Methodically, patiently. You don’t perform any rituals yet; you just collect and wait.

When the day and hour finally come, you are filled to the brim with that energy. You light the candles, your altar is decorated with every Saturn-related item you could find, and with full sincerity you give yourself completely to the ritual. And that’s it.


Then comes the period of silence. You keep living your life without obsessing over results. Time will show whether it worked or not. There have been people who said it did.

Thanks man, some things that you said in your post are written in the books I actually practice, and it resonate with me and what I already practice, I dont do LBRP or "Middle Pillar" rituals because I do a different magical tradition, is like Greek Paganism but I do banish and invoke the 4 elements and I do work with a mediterranean system of "Chakra" rituals, I do not use Hebrew words because this tradition evolved from the traditional Hebrew to Greek and Latin but Ive been studying it for 4 years already and I know they are a real Magick Order.

 

[Ziran]

it was nowhere near seen in any literature until the text of the Zohar

No where?

It's in Genesis, if you know where to look.

 

[Sabbatius]

No where?

It's in Genesis, if you know where to look.

Kabbalah is literally an interpretation and teaching of said interpretation of the Torah. If you choose to accept the interpretation as a valid study, enjoy!

 

[epsilon]

I think the fact that we even call it "[the] kabbalah" as if it's a single, consistent body of work, and not scattered teachings over generations makes it impossible to prove or deny origins in Egypt or anywhere else. The tree of life is synonymous with kabbalah now, but it wasnt always that way.

I personally find Dion Fortune's book very superficial and almost useless. I reread it in December to keep busy on flights after some years of kabbalistic study and in my honest opinion, it doesnt even serve as a gateway into the science of it all. It's so much more complicated and scientic than the book even approaches and I really hope OP takes the suggestions from some of the posts here to explore richer sources. I wouldn't be put off by the "Jewish" of it all, I think that falls away in the material that makes it more of a science than religious mysticism anyway.

 

[Jsinclair]

One important addition to all that has been said is the fact that the Sephiroth system has been depicted in essentially its current form for hundreds of years.

The Kabbalistic Tree by J.H. Chajes and an illustrated scholarly article by the same, here :

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

However, there are also variations of arrangements, with the original pattern said to be circular in design. Further, in the Idra Rabbah/Zuta (et al) texts, one only finds mention of the Partizum arrangements and various aspects and interactions thereof. This reflects the original dual schools represented by Cordovero and Luria/Vital, respectively.
Regardless, we have the very beginning of the Sepher Yetzitah being very clear about there being 10 sefirot (and not 11, etc. ) The matter of how these are to be arranged and combined is certainly not arbitrary, inasmuch as a 10 (number) sphere and 22 (letter) path system only offers so many options for design.

As for anything derived from this Orthodox understanding - such as one that may be the otherwise illustrated purview of (E)gyp(t)sies and/or the Parisian belle époque (to include Eliphas Levi busily combining and codifying) - it would've had to have been imported from Palestine at some point. Whether or not this was actually via a gentleman with a woman, child (/chalice) landing upon Gaelic shores (refer to the "otherwise" illustrations for such imagery) is, of course, a matter for further inquiry...

 

[Ziran]

though I hope I did not come off as rigorous

... not at all. It's a word I've used in the past, not reflecting anything in what you wrote.

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 4:18 PM

Please do write up a tutorial for the rest of us!

I'll try to post something, even if it's flawed, before or during Channukah.

 

[Nerone]

The earliest written source we have on the Kabbalah is the Sepher Yetzirah, written sometime around the 3rd – 6th century CE. It’s a short, enigmatic text that laid the backbone of what would eventually develop into a fairly intricate and complex system of Jewish mysticism – one of the most striking things about this text is the astrological associations of the elements, planets and signs of the zodiac with the twenty-two letters of the Hebrew alphabet and the ten sephirot; this is not, as another poster said earlier, a modern unorthodox deviation.

The glyph of the Tree of Life, as we have come to know it, was illustrated by the 17th century Jesuit scholar Athanasius Kircher. It is sometimes referred to as the “Kirchean Tree”.

Many of the early Kabbalistic ideas, including those of Isaac Luria, came from the system of Late Neoplatonism, in all likelihood that of Proclus – in his system, he gives a cosmological model of an emanative hierarchy that runs as such;

The Unmanifest One > The Manifest One > Nous (Mind/Spirit) > Psyche (Soul) > Hyle (Matter).

In Kabbalistic terms, these became;

Ain, Ain Soph, Ain Soph Aur > Atziluth > Beriyah > Yetzirah > Assiyah

Furthermore, the idea of the ten sephirot is almost certainly influenced by the Pythagorean notion of the Tetraktys, highly prevalent in Late Neoplatonism since the time of Iamblichus who geared the whole tradition towards a blend of pagan ritual magic and Pythagorean numerology; in this system, the ten numbers and their interrelations were considered as the very building blocks of the cosmos. We have one obscure work left from supposedly Iamblichus himself, which is translated as “The Theology of Arithmetic” by Robin Waterfield. It bears striking similarities to some the ideas found in the Sepher Yetzirah.

Now, when emperor Justinian I decided to outlaw all competing schools to Christianity in the year 529 CE, the remaining members of the Platonic Academy had to flee persecution; Damascius, the last head of the Platonic Academy, is said to have taken refuge in the court of Khosrow I in Persia. This influx of Greek philosophy, which likewise came sometime later in another wave to the Arabic world, and the great translation process that then took place gave rise to what is known as the Islamic Golden Age.

In Antiquity, there were two distinct schools of astrology; the Hellenistic, which was heavily influenced by the Egyptian, and the Babylonian. Sometime around the Islamic Golden Age, a third strand appeared; while many, if not all of the earlier Persian works had been burned with the advent of Islam, it is presumed that this strand was built on these now lost works and so it is sometimes known as Persian astrology – blending with the theoretical backbone of Islamic Neoplatonism, it gave rise to a distinct form of Astrological magic, chiefly epitomized in the Picatrix.

There’s a very curious book, “The Arabic Influences on Early Modern Occultism” by Liana Saif that goes in depth on how these Islamic Neoplatonic and Astrological teachings influenced and eventually reached the Western world.

What has any of this to do with Kabbalah?

The original writings of the Platonists were not available for a long time in the Western world, due to the split of the Catholic and Orthodox Church. The Western Catholics read Latin, the Byzantine Orthodoxy read Greek.

During a meeting between both worlds during the Council of Florence between 1431 and 1445, there was a Byzantine scholar named Gemistos Plethon, who was well versed in the original Greek magico-mystical philosophy of Plato and his followers; he had apparently made such an impression upon Cosimo Medici, the head of the Florentine banking dynasty, that Cosimo Medici commissioned a young Marsilio Ficino to translate the writings of Plato into Latin – including his later followers such as Iamblichus and Proclus, and the Corpus Hermeticum as well.

Marsilio Ficino, a devout Catholic, was a practicing astrologer too, well versed in the astrological magic inherited from the Arabs and that was a significant ingredient in this new blend. Being under the patronage of the Medici’s is perhaps the only way he avoided the stake.

It was his student, Pico Mirandola, who is largely responsible for adding the Kabbalah to this mixture of Christian-Platonic-Astrological-Hermetic branch of mysticism and magic; he claimed that Moses had received the Kabbalah on Mount Sinai, that this tradition ran through the New Testament and was justifiably compatible with the doctrines of Hermes Trismegistus (Hermeticism), Zoroaster (Astrology) and Plato (Neoplatonism). This is known as Christian Kabbalah and it is largely this Kabbalah that made it's way into the Western Esoteric tradition of the following centuries, not so much the Orthodox Jewish.

So, to bring all of this together;

The planets visible to the naked eye, from the Greek “planetes”, “wanderer”, had since Antiquity been grouped according to their speed of revolution, from the slowest to the fastest – from Saturn at 29 years, Jupiter at 12 years, Mars at 687 days, Sun at 365 days, Venus at 225 days, Mercury at 188 days, to the Moon at 28 days. This is known as the Chaldean Order and based on this reasoning, in an ascending order, we get Malkuth/Earth, Yesod/Moon, Hod/Mercury, Netzach/Venus, Tiphareth/Sun, Geburah/Mars, Chesed/Jupiter and Binah/Saturn.

Above Saturn/Binah is the realm of the Fixed Stars, Chokmah, the stars that do not seem to wander. Above is the Primum Mobile, the Aristotelian First Mover, the Manifest One of Proclus, Kether.

Beyond this lies the Unmanifest One of Proclus, the Ain Soph Aur of the Jewish Kabbalists.

But there is an important layer to keep in mind.

The planets do not merely exist on the plane of Matter/Assiyah/Hyle, but also on the level of Soul/Yetzirah/Psyche. In Greek thought this is known as the Golden Chain of Being, where out of the Unmanifest One (Ain Soph Aur) springs forth the Demiurgos (Atziluth) which creates Archetypes (Beriah) that emanate to form the World Soul (Yetzirah) which finally manifests and animates the world of Matter (Assiyah).

Since all Archetypes emanate through the planets, who functions as agents of the World Soul, the planets are therefore said to have a link to – and rulership over – everything on Earth. This gives rise to the doctrine of correspondences, Agrippa’s “Occult Virtues”, though it is important to note that things on Earth are of a mixed nature; hence, minerals, plants, animals and men have intermingled influences.

Now, following the Scientific Revolution, this long development of magic and mysticism fell from grace into obscurity. One could well argue that what had been begun in Antiquity reached it’s peak in the Renaissance, and like the Sun at it’s highest point, could go nowhere but down. This entire worldview of the ancients was discarded and many babies were thrown out with the bathwater in the following centuries.

In the 18th century a man named Franz Anton Mesmer wrote a seemingly strange dissertation – following an underpinning of Epicurean, mechanistic philosophy, he claimed that the planets emanated rays which formed a substance on our Earth, which he called the “Magnetic Fluid”, that permeated and governed everything. He claimed that this Magnetic Fluid could be manipulated and implemented in the healing of patients. He was promptly laughed out of the academic world.

Some say he got his ideas from a certain Father Hell, but the idea itself goes back to Al Kindi in the 9th century, who wrote a short book called “On the Stellar Rays”, which sought to give a rational explanation for Astrological Magic in Aristotelian terms, rooted in the Neoplatonic philosophy of the Islamic Golden Age.
Mesmer did not reinvent the wheel, but he had separated it from the wagon. Or perhaps, the wheel had come crashing off the wagon and Mesmer found it by the roadside. Regardless, his ideas took roots in the various esoteric circles in Europe and quickly spread to America.

Eliphas Levi praised him highly in his “History of Magic”, claiming that “nature has revealed all her secrets to Mesmer”. Eliphas Levi took creative license and dubbed the “Magnetic Fluid” the “Astral Light”. In his highly influental book “The Dogma and Ritual of High Magic”, which had a monumental influence on the 19th century Occult Revival, he claimed this very doctrine to be the ancient, long lost secret of all the magicians throughout the ages.

But credit should be given where it’s due – before Eliphas Levi, a second generation disciple of Mesmer, Jules Dupotet Sennevoy, seems to be the first to have introduced the idea that the “Magnetic Fluid” could be manipulated chiefly through the faculties of willpower and imagination by entering into a state of somnambulism, specifically for magical operations. Eliphas Levi praised Sennevoy highly as well and took a fair share of inspiration from him.

This fourfold model of “imagination-willpower-trance-astral light” is more or less the operational backbone of the 19th century Occult Revival and you will find it running through most authors of that era such as Crowley, Regardie, Fortune, Bardon and so forth.

It’s not a bad model by any means, but as Joseph De Maistre once said: “The problem isn’t that it’s not true, the problem is that it’s not true enough”.

The 19th century Kabbalah as taught by the usual suspects of the Occult Revival is – in my opinion – not only lacking in substance due to it’s separation from the primary sources, but also needlessly mystified.

 

[Ziran]

Western magic can indeed be effective — Qabbalah combined with planetary and Christian magic can lead to tangible results.

However, in Western Qabbalah, these results often come through the Qliphoth. It really depends on what your goals are.

That’s just what I’ve seen from my own experience and from people I’ve spoken with who practice it. But I could be wrong.


I think @Ziran could give you a clearer perspective on the risks, benefits, and challenges of Western Qabbalah.

It's very difficult to summarize in a single forum post. But, to put it simply, when plotting a course over a long distance, small miscalculations in orientation at the beginning, naturally, produce vast deviations in the final destination. How much more so when embarking on a spiritual journey?

So, in the majority, the greatest risk, of any cultivation path, is becoming disoriented. Flipping up with down, flipping good and evil, flipping truth and lie... any path which cultivates these as sources of power, angelic, demonic, or otherwise, is inherently risky.

In particular, there's nothing wrong with working with sephirot, if that's the individual's intention, and it's done in the right way and for the right reasons. Further, they're only accurately described as sephirot in comparison to another beyond. From another perspective yet under precusely identical conditions those same sephirot are overflowing-effluence... Psalm 139:12

גם־חשך לא־יחשיך ממך ולילה כיום יאיר כחשיכה כאורה׃
Even the darkness is not dark for you; but the night shines like the day; darkness is as light with you.​

That said, there is a condition in which an individual works with sephirot in the wrong way, in a way which is out of harmony with universal law, in a way for which the sephirot are missappropriated, as completely empty vessels, for lack of better words. In these cases, the individual is metaphorically "nourishing" themselves with metaphorical "dross". It has a "heavy" and "constricting" effect. Which, itself, is only "bad" if the metaphorical "weight" and "constriction" are unintended.

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 5:50 PM

The earliest written source we have on the Kabbalah is the Sepher Yetzirah

With all due respect, according to whom?

Tractate Chagigah predates it.

Im not sure how these negative assertions can be made, rationally, without encyclopedic command of a vast array of ancient texts.

 

[Nerone]

With all due respect, according to whom?

Tractate Chagigah predates it.

Im not sure how these negative assertions can be made, rationally, without encyclopedic command of a vast array of ancient texts.

According to Aryeh Kaplan, who was a well renowned Rabbi and an Orthodox Jewish initiate of the Kabbalah. He did, however, refuse to teach non-Jews the deeper aspects of the Kabbalah, not an uncommon view among the Orthodoxy, and I think this an important aspect to keep in mind when discussing an "indoor" tradition as outsiders.

From his Introduction to the Sefer Yetzirah, at the very first page;

"The Sefer Yetzirah is without question the oldest and most mysterious of all Kabbalistic texts. The first commentaries on this book were written in the 10th century, and the text itself is quoted as early as the sixth. References to the work appears in the first century, while traditions regarding its use attest to its existence even in Biblical times. So ancient is this book that its origins are no longer accessable to historians. We are totally dependent on traditions with regard to its authorship."

I'm not here to split hairs and argue whether seeds of Kabbalistic ideas are present in this or that ancient text, of course they are. But if we're talking about Kabbalah as taught in the 19th century, with centuries of development and intermingling with other traditions - in particular the Kirchean tree with the ten sephirot and astrological correspondences - mentioning texts like the Tractate Chagigah, which briefly mentions the ten sephirot, is not helpful at all.

As someone who started my own Kabbalistic studies with Dion Fortune, Israel Regardie et al over a decade ago, I figured I might save OP some time by bringing up the modern connection with Christian Kabbalah as it came about during the Renaissance. I've seen this tendency over the years, that people conflate the Jewish Kabbalah with the Christian Kabbalah, and in trying to understand the one they study the other. They are quite different

 

[Ziran]

The Sefer Yetzirah is without question the oldest and most mysterious of all Kabbalistic texts

Yes, the oldest text. Book.

The earliest written source

The oldest text, "book", is not the oldest written source.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 3:47 AM

if we're talking about Kabbalah as taught in the 19th century, with centuries of development and intermingling with other traditions - in particular the Kirchean tree with the ten sephirot and astrological correspondences

... then those are likely modern innovations.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 4:12 AM

I'm not here to split hairs and argue

Misinformation is a disservice to anyone reading the thread. There's no need to argue; it's a matter of fact.

I figured I might save OP some time by bringing up the modern connection with Christian Kabbalah

If it works, does no harm, I support it.

As someone who started my own Kabbalistic studies with Dion Fortune, Israel Regardie et al over a decade ago ....

... may I get your opinion? Above, one of the others brought a pair correspondences which ... confused me. Would you share your thoughts on this? Are these well known, accepted correspondences? Do they make sense to you?

Saturn 《 corresponds to 》Binah ?
Earth 《 corresponds to 》Malchus ?

Are those accurate, to the best of your understanding?

Apologies if this was already addressed in another post.

 

[Audiolog Edu]

As someone who started my own Kabbalistic studies with Dion Fortune, Israel Regardie et al over a decade ago, I figured I might save OP some time by bringing up the modern connection with Christian Kabbalah as it came about during the Renaissance. I've seen this tendency over the years, that people conflate the Jewish Kabbalah with the Christian Kabbalah, and in trying to understand the one they study the other. They are quite different

Thanks I actually study Greek Qabbalah by the Aurum Solis, but because Aurum Solis dont have a begginers book I am studying other Qabbalah books, I am aware Golden Dawn is more of a Rose Cross Qabbalah while the Qabbalah Tradition I practice is Greek and Pre Christian, it does not bother me learning Christian Qabbalah, I have 1 book by Rose Cross Alchemy and I like it.

 

[Nerone]

... may I get your opinion? Above, one of the others brought a pair correspondences which ... confused me. Would you share your thoughts on this? Are these well known, accepted correspondences? Do they make sense to you?

Saturn 《 corresponds to 》Binah ?
Earth 《 corresponds to 》Malchus ?

Are those accurate, to the best of your understanding?

Apologies if this was already addressed in another post.

Sure. It's basically the Chaldean Order of the planets based on their speed of revolution;

Malkuth = Earth (Region of the Elements)
Yesod = Moon (28 days)
Hod = Mercury (188 days)
Netzach = Venus (255 days)
Tipharet = Sun (365 days)
Geburah = Mars (687 days)
Chesed = Jupiter (12 years)
Binah = Saturn (29 years)
Chokmah = Fixed Stars
Kether = First Mover

". . . And this was the first Pythagorean System, embraced by Archimedes, the Chaldeans, Aristotle, Cicero, Livy, Ptolemy, Alphonsus, Purbachius, and the greatest part of Astronomers, until the time of Maginus and Clavius"

- Edward Sherburne, 1675, in his translation of The Sphere by Manilius

 

[Ziran]

Sure. It's basically the Chaldean Order of the planets based on their speed of revolution;

Thank you.

Would you please elaborate on the correspondence: Binah <<>> Saturn?

IOW, what can be understood about Binah via an abstract correspondence with Saturn? For example, does the speed of revolution, per Chaldean Order, relate, or correspond to, an attribute, or quality, of Binah?

 

[Nerone]

Thank you.

Would you please elaborate on the correspondence: Binah <<>> Saturn?

IOW, what can be understood about Binah via an abstract correspondence with Saturn? For example, does the speed of revolution, per Chaldean Order, relate, or correspond to, an attribute, or quality, of Binah?

From Wiki;

"The 16th-century teachings of

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, known as

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, introduced complex ideas about the sefirot's dynamics and interactions. Luria's cosmology emphasized Binah's role in the process of

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, or rectification, restoring divine order following the shattering of the vessels (

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

). In this process, Binah brings order and structure to the fragmented divine light."

"Order and structure" being textbook Saturn.

One of my favorite descriptions of Saturn comes from Robert Hand's Horoscope Symbols;

The truly serious problem of Saturn lies in the idea of reality itself: namely, the equation of reality with truth. Reality seems immutable, orderly, and eternal. Yet life is so short that we cannot see whether or not at some fundamental level the rules of the game are slowly changing. But they may be. What we with our limited perspective think of as reality is not necessarily truth.
Nevertheless, we need this reality: the experience of living in a universe where everything is in flux, where no rule can be counted on, or where an understanding of yesterday provides no clue for understanding tomorrow, would be enough to send most of us to the madhouse. We depend on a reality system for support, and even if we are at times unfamiliar with its rules, we are grateful for its existence.
Reality is structure, and so is Saturn. Reality is limitation, and so is Saturn, for everything is as much defined by what it is not as by what it is. If I took a chair and said “Let the essence of this chair fill this room,” and it were to do so, we would lose the ability to perceive the chair. The chair is defined both by the fact that it occupies whatever space it occupies, and the fact that it does not occupy whatever space it does not occupy. Reality is created by a process of exclusion, of eliminating other possible realities. This aspect of exclusion is one of Saturn’s most important attributes.

. . .

Like all energies, Saturn energy has its time and place. But, because Saturn issues are so central to social existence, we are likely to apply Saturn principles to situations where they are inappropriate. Being mature and able to accept responsibility is Saturnine; so is being guilt-ridden about one’s inadequacies. Having a clearly defined image of who and what one is is Saturnine; but so is being so isolated from others that one cannot relate successfully. Alienation and one’s sense of having a separate self are the same energy in different degrees in different situations. Knowing one’s limitations is Saturnine; so is settling for too little in life. Being realistic is Saturnine; but so is compromising one’s integrity and denying one’s selfexpression for fear of seeing what is really possible in the world.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 6:22 PM

We can also look at Binah as the 3rd Sephirot and understand the number 3 in relation to Saturn. The most obvious one being that if we take one point, we have just that, one point, if we take two points and connect them we get a line, but if we take three points we get a triangle. Three dimensional reality, being length, width and height. The idea of Saturnian time, being past, present and future. Seconds, minutes and hours on a clock. Days, months and years on a calendar. Three signs for each season, being cardinal, fixed and mutable. Father, mother and offspring. Animals of the sea, land and air. This would be the observable part of numerology.

You can get fancy and begin to incorporate theological ideas such as the three letters in the name Adam (אדם), and venture into how this number expresses itself in both the Old and New Testament and Pagan religions, but I think that goes well beyond the mathematical and observable foundations.

The mathematical part, which goes back to the Greeks, is a little funky, but useful.

In general, it is said that multiplication is greater than addition.
Except for the Monad where addition is greater than multiplication, because 1x1=1 but 1+1=2.
With the Dyad, both multiplication and addition is the same, because 2+2=4 and 2x2=4.
But the Triad is the first number proper to express this principle, that multiplication is greater than addition, because 3+3=6, while 3x3=9. This is true for all the other numbers as well, but it is first epitomized in the number 3, which some authors held to be the first true number. With this we can make an arithmetical reasoning for why"...the Zohar describes Binah as the "supernal mother" from whom the lower sefirot emanate. This maternal aspect is crucial as Binah gives birth to the six lower sefirot".

 

[Audiolog Edu]

During a meeting between both worlds during the Council of Florence between 1431 and 1445, there was a Byzantine scholar named Gemistos Plethon, who was well versed in the original Greek magico-mystical philosophy of Plato and his followers; he had apparently made such an impression upon Cosimo Medici, the head of the Florentine banking dynasty, that Cosimo Medici commissioned a young Marsilio Ficino to translate the writings of Plato into Latin – including his later followers such as Iamblichus and Proclus, and the Corpus Hermeticum as well.

The books I study from writes about this, and is Greek Qabbalah, can you tell me if there is anything wrong if I study that? I dont really want to study the classic Kabbalah because I dont think is for me, but this school I practice has a Neo Platonic philosophy and I like it very much, I have advanced in Magick practice, but I am just confuse.