Author Just curious: What's the general consensus on E.A. Koetting's books?

[agloval]

Hey everyone, just asking out of pure curiosity .
what's the deal with E.A. Koetting's books? I always see them popping up, but they also seem pretty "commercial" to me. I get that people want to make money off their work (which is fine, I guess , not something I'd do myself, but hey, to each their own). For those who have actually read his stuff, what do you honestly think? Just to be clear, I'm not judging anyone who likes his work or anything like that genuinely just curious.

 

[Vonixa Tiresia]

I have read some of his works. I do not believe them to be of any particular note, mostly just riffing off existing (and now tired) tropes in the Western LHP tradition. For the prices they are sold for, I wouldn't regard them as worth your money, and I personally don't regard them as even being worth my time disregarding the exorbitant costs. My personal view is that when occultists charge a high cost, the (usually inexperienced) fools who buy such works are likely to treat it as far more significant than it truly is, because they have to justify the cost to themselves. Hence, such bland occultists tend to draw a fanatic but generally small, inexperienced, and not well read circle. Aka, the hype outpaces the actual merit.

 

[MehenVox]

Ok how many hours do we have to talk about it?

Jokes aside, it's a delicate topic, mostly because I think a real distinction needs to be made between the Koetting of today and the one from a few years back.
The earlier Koetting is the guy behind the OAA course, which in my view remains one of the most practical entry points available for occult learning.

It manages to guide you from absolute basics up to a solid intermediate level without getting bogged down in endless theory. It clearly draws a lot from Bardon’s framework, though without pretending to be anywhere near as complete or rigorous as Initiation Into Hermetics, but it succeeds because it isolates core mechanics like the Theta-Gamma Sync, scrying, and basic evocation.

If you strip away the edgy presentation, the underlying technical foundation and some of his mantras are undeniably effective.

The problem is how his output evolved over time, since, at a certain point, the focus shifted drastically from genuine methodology toward over-commercialized hype, overpriced materials, meth abuse and a sensationalized LHP persona tailored for internet consumption.

Ultimately, I really think that there is still real value in his work if you know HOW to read it. If you look past the commercial fluff and the theatrical dark-lord branding of the BALG era, his core instructional material, especially the early courses and texts like Evoking Eternity, which you can easily find in this forum, offers direct, accessible tech.

Remember, you must separate the operator's actual technique from the marketer's persona, extract what works, and leave the rest behind and that, in my modest opinion, it sounds like a good philosophy of life for almost anything.

 

[agloval]

Thanks both, @Vonixa Tiresia and @MehenVox . I came back expecting nothing and found an actual conversation, so cheers for that.

Just to be clear, I wouldn't go near Koetting's books myself. What I wanted to know was whether anyone here actually works from them and what came of it.

That's not really the same as asking if the books are any good.

@MehenVox the split between early Koetting and current Koetting is useful, I hadn't thought about it that way. Separating the technique from the guy selling it works for a lot of people, not just him.

@Vonixa Tiresia the bit about price doing the convincing is a good point. People defend what they paid for. Never occurred to me that the cost itself builds the reputation.

For what it's worth, I have no proof of this but no doubts either: I think most people who actually get results don't publish them. Not out of secrecy, there's just no reason to. Obviously there are exceptions, the great Omee being one, someone I respect and am fond of. But it holds up more often that not.


I wonder if he's around here somewhere hahaha

Anyway, thanks for the answers.

 

[Faria]

what's the deal with E.A. Koetting's books?

I've read "Evoking Eternity" cover to cover, and skimmed a few of his other works. Thanks to the library here, he earned no royalties, even though I would have purchased them if they weren't here for free. My opinion is that the consensus opinion against him was largely formed by people who did not read his books. They don't offer anything new or groundbreaking, and they don't offer a fresh perspective on existing works, but they aren't badly written or full of nonsense. If you read Eliphas Levi's stuff, you're going to waste twice as much time and get less actual guidance about how to approach magic, and his work is on par with Koetting in terms of BS to reality ratio.

And really it seems like he wanted it that way. He even separates his chapters into the 22 paths of Tarot as Levi and Crowley did. Apart from the marketing, Koetting's books aren't offering anything you won't find elsewhere. What you do get is a somewhat consistent aesthetic. If you don't like the fact that Thelema is pieced together from a variety of sources, this is a good way to forget the entire history of magic and begin with Koetting as a stand-alone system.

BALG really comes down to 3 things: astral projection, spirit evocation, and divination. Astral projection ends up being mostly imagination exercises, his version of spirit evocation is basically servitor creation, and then divinatory arts. Nothing is too far off the same track as DJ Conway, except it's a slightly different vibe.

I met EAK briefly a long time ago. I think he's a legit magician. Like Konstantinos, who had an equivalent role in 90s paperback occultism, you have to separate the cheesy packaging from the author and their work, and then you find both the author and the books are cool. What is not cool is going along with what a crowd of people tell you that you should think about someone else or their books without reading them, which seems to be how the consensus opinion formed.

 

[ewiz]

I have little doubt that most people who talk down on his work haven't actually read it. It may be a lot of rehashed information with a dark edgy twist to it, but there is a lot of very useful information in his books, and they're well written imo. I haven't really read much of his post-BALG work, but I would consider his Works of Darkness trilogy(WoD, Baneful Magic, and Evoking Eternity) to be full of useful tech and info for a lot of people. For example his demon sigil charging technique, it's very well presented and can be very effective. It may not be the "proper" use for a spirit sigil, but it's a much better method than the zero-effort offering and saying a prayer to one that I see a lot of demonolaters doing nowadays.

My general opinion has always remained that these books are not a bad place for someone to start, so long as they don't get too caught up in all the dark fluff. Side note, even though I'm defending EAK here, that become a "double crowley" book that pokes fun at him and others like him is a hilarious read.

One of the most interesting books of his, imo, is Kingdoms of Flame. While almost certainly frabricated and egregoric in nature, it is a well thought out system. I had fairly strong and fast contact with some of the spirits listed there, as did quite a few others I knew back before the BALG forum even existed. I don't know if more of this system has been presented in his more recent work. I do know that the Book of Azazel presented lots of similarly constructed spirits, but the current of that system seemed entirely different. KoF as it's own thing seemed internally consistent, unlike Azazel which is trying reshape existing ideas and stick a bunch of new ones in there. I don't know whether these systems and their spirits were fully invented by Koetting, or whether they were channelled or revealed through his work with some spirits, but in practice it doesn't really matter either way. I would at least suggest they're interesting enough to take a look at, and wouldn't rule out revisting them in the future myself.

I think it's bullshit that he was deplatformed on social media, just because some idiot who murdered women for a pact to win the lottery was a member of his forum. I also think it's stupid that people try to discredit him by talking about his personal life, legal issues, and drug use. Some of the smartest people I've ever met were drug addicts who lived in squalor, and I've known multiple magicians who were very legit and wise and also ended up living on the streets, battling different demons than the kind we usually talk about. There isn't some perfect way that someone's life has to look for them to qualify as a serious practitioner.

I talked a bit with EAK many years ago, not sure what he or his BALG crew have put out recently, but he's definitely a legit practitioner. I don't think what he's done is much different than Damon Brand/GoM in rehashing a bunch of material and giving it a different flavor, but at least with BALG there are actually multiple authors, not just one guy writing books under different pen names. It's easy to form a negative opinion about EAK as a person, look at his marketing and write his work off as a scam before you read a word of it. But I find it funny that the people who do this are often the same ones who would champion something like GoM as if it were something revolutionary.

 

[agloval]

I have little doubt that most people who talk down on his work haven't actually read it. It may be a lot of rehashed information with a dark edgy twist to it, but there is a lot of very useful information in his books, and they're well written imo. I haven't really read much of his post-BALG work, but I would consider his Works of Darkness trilogy(WoD, Baneful Magic, and Evoking Eternity) to be full of useful tech and info for a lot of people. For example his demon sigil charging technique, it's very well presented and can be very effective. It may not be the "proper" use for a spirit sigil, but it's a much better method than the zero-effort offering and saying a prayer to one that I see a lot of demonolaters doing nowadays.

My general opinion has always remained that these books are not a bad place for someone to start, so long as they don't get too caught up in all the dark fluff. Side note, even though I'm defending EAK here, that become a "double crowley" book that pokes fun at him and others like him is a hilarious read.

One of the most interesting books of his, imo, is Kingdoms of Flame. While almost certainly frabricated and egregoric in nature, it is a well thought out system. I had fairly strong and fast contact with some of the spirits listed there, as did quite a few others I knew back before the BALG forum even existed. I don't know if more of this system has been presented in his more recent work. I do know that the Book of Azazel presented lots of similarly constructed spirits, but the current of that system seemed entirely different. KoF as it's own thing seemed internally consistent, unlike Azazel which is trying reshape existing ideas and stick a bunch of new ones in there. I don't know whether these systems and their spirits were fully invented by Koetting, or whether they were channelled or revealed through his work with some spirits, but in practice it doesn't really matter either way. I would at least suggest they're interesting enough to take a look at, and wouldn't rule out revisting them in the future myself.

I think it's bullshit that he was deplatformed on social media, just because some idiot who murdered women for a pact to win the lottery was a member of his forum. I also think it's stupid that people try to discredit him by talking about his personal life, legal issues, and drug use. Some of the smartest people I've ever met were drug addicts who lived in squalor, and I've known multiple magicians who were very legit and wise and also ended up living on the streets, battling different demons than the kind we usually talk about. There isn't some perfect way that someone's life has to look for them to qualify as a serious practitioner.

I talked a bit with EAK many years ago, not sure what he or his BALG crew have put out recently, but he's definitely a legit practitioner. I don't think what he's done is much different than Damon Brand/GoM in rehashing a bunch of material and giving it a different flavor, but at least with BALG there are actually multiple authors, not just one guy writing books under different pen names. It's easy to form a negative opinion about EAK as a person, look at his marketing and write his work off as a scam before you read a word of it. But I find it funny that the people who do this are often the same ones who would champion something like GoM as if it were something revolutionary.

Thanks for the reply @ewiz I agree with you that criticizing someone’s work without actually reading it is pretty pointless

Umentioned having some strong and quick contact with spirits from Kingdoms of Flame. Out of the entities in EAK’s work, which ones would you say are the most accessible or easiest to approach?

 

[ewiz]

Thanks for the reply @ewiz I agree with you that criticizing someone’s work without actually reading it is pretty pointless

Umentioned having some strong and quick contact with spirits from Kingdoms of Flame. Out of the entities in EAK’s work, which ones would you say are the most accessible or easiest to approach?

I couldn't really say because my work with them was brief and limited, but of the handful I called I had no issues making contact. There is a spirit described in the book as a "guiding spirit," he might be a good choice for initial contact, and another described as a "beneficial angel", that one is a good choice for applying EAK's sigil charging technique, if one were in need of money. It's an interesting book worth giving a read.

 

[beardedeldridge]

I came with a plan to compare his works over time to the evolution of a particular you-tube gamer my kids watch. Who always acted goofy as f but used to produce half way decent gamer vids for the teen/pre-teen crowd but found out how clicks work and then mostly only made slop vids but gets 3x the clicks from my 5-8 yo kids.

But you guys took it much more seriously and nailed it. Well done!

*Personally I only read any of his works because of these type questions tbh. But I’ve worked with some of the techs he’s borrowing from at least. I think under all of that noise is (or was) a somewhat halfway decent practitioner who uses all the controversy to make some money.

- Eld

 

[nazzgrelito]

Vale, ¿cuántas horas tenemos para hablar de ello?

Bromas aparte, es un tema delicado, sobre todo porque creo que es necesario establecer una distinción clara entre el Koetting de hoy y el de hace unos años.
El Koetting anterior es el responsable del curso de la OAA, que en mi opinión sigue siendo uno de los puntos de partida más prácticos disponibles para el aprendizaje del ocultismo.

Logra guiarte desde los conceptos básicos hasta un nivel intermedio sólido sin enredarte en interminables teorías. Claramente se inspira en gran medida en el marco de Bardon, aunque sin pretender ser tan completo ni riguroso como Iniciación a la Hermetica, pero tiene éxito porque aísla mecánicas fundamentales como la Sincronización Theta-Gamma, la adivinación y la evocación básica.

Si dejamos de lado la presentación provocativa, la base técnica subyacente y algunos de sus mantras son innegablemente efectivos.

El problema radica en cómo evolucionó su producción con el tiempo, ya que, en cierto punto, el enfoque cambió drásticamente, pasando de una metodología genuina a una publicidad excesivamente comercializada, materiales caros, abuso de metanfetaminas y una personalidad sensacionalista de la LHP adaptada para el consumo en internet.

En definitiva, creo que su obra sigue teniendo un gran valor si se sabe interpretarla. Si se deja de lado la publicidad superficial y la imagen teatral y siniestra de la era BALG, su material didáctico principal, especialmente los primeros cursos y textos como Evoking Eternity, que se pueden encontrar fácilmente en este foro, ofrece una técnica directa y accesible.

Recuerda que debes separar la técnica real del operador de la personalidad del vendedor, extraer lo que funciona y dejar atrás el resto; y eso, en mi humilde opinión, suena como una buena filosofía de vida para casi cualquier cosa.

El curso de la OAA es genial; te enseña lo básico y un poco más. También recomiendo el libro "El Reino de las Llamas". Los espíritus que he invocado son poderosos y muy útiles, pero hay algunas interpretaciones planetarias, elementales y zodiacales específicas que uno debe descubrir por sí mismo. Recientemente, llamé a Meton, el espíritu que conoce el lenguaje de los ángeles, y le pedí que tradujera una oración personal que había escrito. Cuando le pedí a la IA que intentara traducir lo que canalicé, me sorprendió porque coincidía con lo que había escrito e incluso era mucho más intenso en cuanto a contenido e intención.

 

[Accipeveldare]

All I can say is that most (if not all) of his stuff is utter BS. I read a ton of his books just to see and it is just the same edgy, wannabe-mysterious, stuff that pretty much the whole BALG posse produces. His books are overpriced for what they are and the contents are either just edgy jargon or things that could be genuinely dangerous in practice. I would not recommend. It is just a production of a man who never left his teenage edgy phase.