Luciferian/Demonic Egregore conflict problem: The Commoner X The Elite

[JGVDRG]

There are (supposedly) two forms of Luciferianism. So let’s try a thought experiment on that.

One, nearing the biblical fable or the poetic, close to the Paradise Lost mythos, is practiced by the financial elite, along with doctrines and traditions that exists since the dawn of civilization. The "Luciferians" mentioned when you watch a video of some human traffic victim disclosing details about their aggressors, usually big pictures from society, politicians, bankers, etc. Lucifer taken as the Lord of this World, the Lord of the Armies of Hell, the light bringer who favors their chosen initiates, descending from specific ancient bloodlines. The liberator who liberates only their select group of sickos, granting them ridiculous amounts of power over others, which translates into direct personal freedom for them. One might say it's working, since those who are deeply involved in such practices within those societies, are the ones who have actual unlimited power over the collective, and therefore freedom, at least in this world. Those initiates are the ones who builds altars of pure gold, fueling them with the blood and flesh of countless sacrifices, powered by a complex and ancient social structure built to feed this specific egregore. They spend enormous amounts of resources on their sacrifices, have complete access to secret knowledge, they pay skilled sorcerers and magicians handsomely, just to keep the flame alive. They make collective sex rituals of epic proportions, under the undying symbols of their deities. So, if the elites are actually involved in such cults, cults of the primitive gods, where deities such as Baal and/or Moloch are glorified under the aegis of "Lucifer" (even if mistakenly)...a Lucifer seen as a villainous tyrant, power hungry beast, general of infernal armies that favors the ones who benefits them the most, the ones who are willing to abandon everything in exchange of material power, regardless of morality, purity of intention or ethics, or simply those of a specific genetic ancestry. That is to say, Lucifer seen as what Christians would call Satan or the Devil, revered as the vengeful fallen angel, the sadistic, power hungry, bestial force seething in the depths of Hell, and ultimately, full of hatred against all of God's creation, specially human beings. Even if this isn't accurate in the concept of most of the LHP writers (at least those who actually publishes something to the public), let's suppose for a moment that there are endless resources being poured on this specific egregore for centuries.

The other one, as you might suspect, is the modern Luciferianism. The one closer to the Michael W. Ford practical approach, to the philosophy of the Thelema, to Chaos Magick and contemporary esoteric "psychonautic", witchcraft and neo-paganism, one which incorporates Gnostic values such as overcoming the illusions, powering knowledge-seeking habits and breaking the chains of the collective over the individual and so forth, to the Hermetic principles of alchemy and archetypes, practices that you could picture a "commoner" getting involved with. Not the commoner in terms of mental disposition, I'm not referring to the normie, but simply people who are not the financial elite of the world. Workers, students, small business owners, et cetera. Even "pure" practitioners, people who devote their lives to the practice, but are inevitably mediocre in terms of material wealth. If the purpose of such practice is to reach enlightenment, to waken their hidden potential, and, aligned with demonic practices (through ceremonial Goetia or modern Demonolatry practices) to attain certain goals, objectively or subjectively. Or, we could mention other forms of magic, even some sorts of shamanism, relying on the name and sigil of Lucifer as a representative of certain spiritual virtues, or aspects of the Soul. Lucifer seen as the initiator of the individual practitioner, who awakens the inner black flame of the magician and guides them through their alchemical path of inner transformation. The deity or archetype that illuminates the path of the psyche to beyond the scales of cosmic rule, the amoral spiritual rebel to be incorporated by the practitioner. Picture a guy who works for some company for mediocre wage. This guy is self initiated, or was initiated in some Crowley-inspired esoteric order when he was in college. He keeps his altar/space in constant check, feeds the egregore of a specific demon/deity, practices ceremonial magick regularly (either to "clock in" or with strong intentional purpose), and so forth. He keeps the flame alive, he wants to escape the rat race at all costs in order to fully dedicate themselves to their cause, whatever it may be. So you see a lot of strong will and intention here. But you don't see palpable results. You see surges of inspiration here and there, once in a while, but not any verifiable favor granted in terms of contingency. On the contrary, he experiences increasingly complex challenges confronting the guy in day-to-day life, which he takes as tests (much like the common religious people experiences earthly life). And so he takes this path forward, sometimes not even expecting significant improvements at all.

The big question(s) is(are): could the will and intention of the individual practitioner possibly overpower the intensity of the elite practice, if interests collide (they essentially do)? Would the "purity" of purpose really make a difference in this, since the demons or even Lucifer are often seen as amoral forces? What if the gods favorites are the ones in power, even for the Promethean egregores, while we're all fooling ourselves, thinking they would help enable our hidden powers to move forward and attain relative independence (which is unacceptable to the elite, who also practices magic, allegedly within the same sigils, aegis and doctrines as we do, but objectively, materially better in terms of form, consistency and quality of offerings)? Yeah, I do believe that any objective-oriented practice done by a common citizen in the world will necessarily, without any doubt, would clash with any Matrix/Prison oriented goals of the external world, except if the magician's purpose is to become a smooth brained cattle, smartphone wageslave with nowhere to go, with not an ounce of land to even die on top of. One could say that the elite are not actually Luciferians, that they actually worship Saturn and so forth, but the problem stands. What about the independent practitioner that devoted his/her life to the Cult of Saturn? What about this individual's purposes in contrast to the purposes of the elite who works over the collective of which the practitioner is merely a part of?
Imagine this scenario...every demon, entity or divinity would be "down for action" if huge amounts of energy offered is involved. So they would certainly benefit those corrupted parties and ditch any sort of true esoteric valued work coming from a broke blue-collar worker that can't even afford to light a pretty candle everyday in his altar, even if maintaining strong will and a directed mind. So, if Lucifer and the demons under him, within this mythos, are all somewhat affordable and amoral, they would benefit these elites much more than they could benefit a lonely practitioner, even if their practices are not conceptually or philosophically "on point". Yeah, they could be calling the Demiurge/False god "Lucifer", just like monotheists calls the Demiurge their "God". They could just be involved in a practice that has nothing to do with Lucifer in any sense. But you get my drift...if they are feeding, enpowering and declaring such names, such sigils, such egregores, the same ones that common practitioners also worship or seek to integrate psychically with very limited time and resources...then I guess the commoner (we) have a big problem with any sorts of magical practice. Because interests would never be aligned. It's the same problem with money magic. You're always clashing with bigger centers of power using the same names, the same symbols, the same archetypes, to attract a pity amount of prosperity that originates from a source controlled by the elites...also through magic, not to mention an extremely resourceful and complex apparatus beyond the rituals.
Are the bigger collective centers of power ruining our own personal centers of power? My guess is yes. And if I'm not wrong, is there a solution to this? Or would be better for the commoner to just appeal to another force, or to try and integrate themselves with another type of archetype? To align ourselves with frequencies of vibration that those of the elite has no access to (which is unlikely)? One could say that the elites are being fooled by other types of entities, malevolent, tricky ones they can't even comprehend...then why are them so favored, why can they get away with anything, why can they have such material freedom and why do they keep practicing it regardless of what any theory or esoteric knowledge would prescribe?

 

[Lightlindside]

Is the order of ages corrupt?

Yes. But is it also parasitic?

The black flame exists to nurture new, novel sovereign forms. The cup can be filled with endless rivers of blood, but must eventually yield new fruit.

Non-metaphorical translation and personal opinion for this: the world is currently publicly burning.

Something that annoys me is that there's a current rather virulent trend towards openly decrying the 'satanic' elite. At this point in history, between the most recently publicized war, and the commoner Christian's publicly popular obsession with Epstein Island, there are enough people that are generally very sick of the system. The problem with this is that this public egregore running mass consciousness is basically long-term elite maintenance of a primarily mystic kabalistic/christian/egyptian egregore. The public mass most interested in destroying these culture structures would be better served re-inventing or re-purposing their weapons.

The ideal Lucifer rules a choir of angels liberated from the oppressive grip of heaven.

I had the mixed fortune of being born into an international Christian cult (The Children of God). They had locations worldwide, and successfully - over the course of their tenure and propagandizing - drained money out of local populaces. Their leader (David Brant Berg) had successful relationships with Muammar Gaddafi. I personally remember my uncle calling in the Gambian (Gambia being a little country on the West Coast of Africa) Military to deal with his house being robbed by locals, and grew up until my teenage years living in large houses, largely insulated by the wealth leveraged from various local populaces who supported the surface level doctrine being shared. It helped that the group became large enough to work with various charitable institutions, masquerading as a legitimate aid organization.

What's notable about what I experienced - and then researched upon leaving - is that this cult had the same general mindset and approach that most public 'commoner' Christian's did; the system is evil. There's an inherent irony to my upbringing in that I experienced a group that successfully traumatized generations of its members. There's something to be said for in-group norms of traumatic abuse acting as powerful occult feedback loops that generate power for the egregoric whole of a cult organization with occult functions.

Ultimately however, the group itself collapsed, coming into harsh contact with the realities of things like the internet. Youth members - particularly those who were living in 'homes' located in first world countries - were able to drag enough of outside culture into their lives to break the grip. There's a longer history to the internal collapse of the Children of God, but I wont re-iterate it. The group technically still exists, under the guise of 'The Family International'.

Returning to the current premise; are we basically fucked by the fact that - accepting this premise for the purposes of this discussion - power-hungry groups have been pouring trillions of dollars worth of money and blood into maintaining their ritual structures? Yes, until the structure breaks. The 'satanic elite' is largely composed of the US/Canada/UK hegemonic British empire. There are other global forces at play with their own occult histories.

Modern 'commoner' Luciferians should be critically acknowledging what norms they are willing to break, and collectively banding together based on those norms. The tricky thing is the fact that antinomian (anti-norm) practices and secret initiation rituals are really fucking useful for building group cohesion. But can you call a practice truly anti-norm if its been practiced by the elite in 'secret' for pretty much ever? This is why I mentioned my own cult upbringing. They had it all; an apocalyptic vision, free love practices, and more 'spirit helper' drivel than you could shake a stick at. The collective vision originally was built on the idea of fusing New Testament Ethics with the fundamentals of the hippie movement, and it's early stages were an accurate reflection of this vision. This particular combination didn't necessarily even go bad until the repressed desires of the leader took center stage upon the group's expansion. Sort of an "I want to be a revolutionary but I'd rather turn my early childhood trauma into a traumatic sex cult" type deal.

So if you look at the current egregore historically; Egypt + Israel, Greece, Rome, Britain, The Current Egregore. This particular succession of powers arguably contains the building blocks for the current 'satanic elite'. You can arguably trace the Western Magickal Tradition and its crossover with this elite pretty easily. These weren't the only nations practicing occult technologies, but they successfully took much of the world by storm.

My theory - based on observing various large scale groups that primarily feed on their populace - is that only feeding the gods the sacrifice of the commoner is a zero-sum game. Incredibly powerful occult methodologies exist that used to operate within small collectives for hundreds of thousands of years (I.e westerners discovering and appropriating ayahuasca). The key thing to note is that these technologies may have been 'liberated' and redistributed to an elite glutted on its own excess, but they were not created by this elite. There were also several places in history where trade and cooperation between occultists of vastly differing heritages were common, and much of the 'best' technology we have access to comes from this cooperation.

Like the cult I grew up in, eventually, the effects of raping the world repeatedly show up. From my perspective I doubt the Earth and its spiritual hierarchies are necessarily 'happy' with the current order of ages. They're just mostly fed by A: the Elite and B: dissonant tones of various parties fighting each other instead of the elite. Why WOULDN'T spiritual forces be interested in a new paradigm carried by devoted practitioners?

The primary issue with the Modern Luciferian is a combination of laziness, and unwillingness to correctly repurpose or even invent new occult technologies. LSD could easily become the center of its own new modern mystery cult if correctly handled, and the groundwork already exists for this in the underground scenes. We can find quite literally entire systems of Magick just laying around on the internet, waiting to be collectively used. Mostly, the 'organization' we've seen is a social media circus documenting the 'satanic elite's every move. I applaud them if they ever more from social media posting to actively buying land and collectively organizing resistance.

In summary: things are currently cracking, and processes that destroy psyche's ultimately run themselves dry. As things crumble, people will be inevitably forced to collectively band together under whatever shared identity they have left. A true carrier of the black flame is waiting for enough cracks to appear in the current aeons armor.

I wonder how many people from every portion of society - including potential elites - are satisfied by an experience of excess over diversity of human spirit. I wonder if many of the people embedded in these 'satanic mystery cults' would seek an alternative if the alternative was given, and embedded in its own sophisticated system of occult technology. I wonder how many such systems would need to exist to create their own egregore.

I'd call it a hopeless mission if I hadn't literally been born into an example of an admittedly deeply flawed alternative to consensus society that managed to go global. Why can't the 'cult' formula be refined into something more noble?

Post automatically merged: Mar 15, 2026

A clarification: I'm actually not supporting the ideology or perspective of the cult I grew up in. I ultimately experienced and then watched its internal collapse from the inside as a result of its own practices. I'm basing my perspective on the elites on the fact that they are ultimately running around the world sacrificing things to a lot of ancient gods and systems that originally belonged to the land those entities lived in. Basic idea: parasitic ideas will eventually eat themselves alive, and leave few survivors. Those who survive (on both sides of the coin, commoner and elite alike) create the new order of ages.

 

[JGVDRG]

Something that annoys me is that there's a current rather virulent trend towards openly decrying the 'satanic' elite. At this point in history, between the most recently publicized war, and the commoner Christian's publicly popular obsession with Epstein Island, there are enough people that are generally very sick of the system. The problem with this is that this public egregore running mass consciousness is basically long-term elite maintenance of a primarily mystic kabalistic/christian/egyptian egregore. The public mass most interested in destroying these culture structures would be better served re-inventing or re-purposing their weapons.

In my opinion (as all of this post will be), the "satanic elite" as it's called is just a generalization resulting from linguistic and cognitive limitations of the western masses. From what I know we're not talking about one specific cult of Lucifer, as I doubt many of them would even invoke this name directly, but several different cults hierarchically disposed among each other that probably communicates to a higher ranking one (similar to the DeMolay - Freemason dynamics, different groups but the "lower ranking" responds to the other, largely non-officially but bc of pure politics). Of course that the commoner prefer to refer to all of these societies as one big meanie cult, it's simpler to generalize an enemy.
So what's the association with modern Luciferianism, right? There's a colossal difference, of course, between the elite groups that has emerged from long and turbulent centuries of development, alongside shifts in empires and global ethnic dynamics...and a one-off movement sparked by a revival of occult knowledge in the wake of the information revolution. But this recent movement is able to surface the theoretical knowledge that composes these elite groups and, why not say, it allows the practitioner to get in contact with similar egregores, which are not, by all means, closed circuits. So, regarding this dynamics, I can, by my own will and work, access the Qlippothic tunnels. I can mock-practice self initiation rituals in almost any language I want to, I can study the large extent of Babylonian Magick books freely available in the internet and simply start to make the rituals. Whether I get the desired results of not, what I deduce is that this specific person starts getting really really out there, energetically and "astrally" speaking. I personally wouldn't like to become vulnerable in their 'psychosphere'. All of this can be accessed by the Luciferian gateway, hence, the association between Luciferianism as advertised to the public, through many public and quite modern LHP institutions and the whole extent of ancient knowledge that precedes that. An avid researcher such as many of us could get access to secrets not made for them to know (by these organizations).
Now, what these elite secret groups actually do in terms of ceremony and rituals and what sort of knowledge they keep in doors, I do not know. But we know what type of "resources" they seek and one could infer the tone of their works based on what happens out there, the results, as you said yourself:

Non-metaphorical translation and personal opinion for this: the world is currently publicly burning.

It indeed is, and on top of that, our world became the stage of the most abhorrent examples of injustices and oppression. So, as parasitic and irrational the perpetual extractivism of the soul (and the material resource) might be, there is no visible reason why they would loosen the leash from this point on, as they are starting to expose themselves willingly. It took many centuries for them to start getting visible, and I don't believe they will stop now, their operations are getting bolder by the day as they detain the means of production AND propagation of info. The Epstein Island narrative and all of the controlled disclosure that's happening is the worst of the signs. If the normie can know, it means they don't need to cover up anymore, which has extremely dangerous implications for all of us.

I wonder how many people from every portion of society - including potential elites - are satisfied by an experience of excess over diversity of human spirit. I wonder if many of the people embedded in these 'satanic mystery cults' would seek an alternative if the alternative was given, and embedded in its own sophisticated system of occult technology. I wonder how many such systems would need to exist to create their own egregore.

I'd call it a hopeless mission if I hadn't literally been born into an example of an admittedly deeply flawed alternative to consensus society that managed to go global. Why can't the 'cult' formula be refined into something more noble?

I don't think they're seeking to mutually survive in this world even in 'herdsman and his cattle' dynamics. A rough 1% of it's natural operation would suffice them, as long as there are forms perpetuating their sustain. And with guaranteed power within a very articulated and robust system, their need to favor the gods will start to fleet and it will become provisional at best. It becomes really daunting when you understand the extent that their deception can reach. There are still many horrid activities unknown to the public, done by political and corporate elites within certain "points of the network" in many lesser known countries that will take a very long time to be disclosed if disclosed at all. You, more than many of us, knows how powerful the effects of trauma can be. Now, extending it to the whole of society with very rare exceptions, there is no doubt that the psychological operations have damaged most of the population's psyche to a point of no return in one lifetime. A contrarian movement using the same technologies, both mundane and mystical, is becoming less and less probable to happen. I like to mention the Free Software movement when we talk about the software industry, which is a prime example of how resistance works in society as a whole. What are these hundreds of freedom-loving genius revolutionaries in face of the Leviathan of the bloated software industry? A few good willing autists building meta-tools on black consoles fully against the grain can do effectively nothing in the face of perhaps millions of desperate workers weaponized under the thumbs of these same elite members we've mentioned here. In fact, they have effectively zero chance of surviving what's to come and they can't be, in the whole of the society, more than unknown martyrs. The same happens to the independent magician using the same tools of the enemy to produce the undesirable for them. As we all know, magic(k) is not an emergency fix for anything and the momentum is already too damn much on the opposite side's favor.

Like the cult I grew up in, eventually, the effects of raping the world repeatedly show up. From my perspective I doubt the Earth and its spiritual hierarchies are necessarily 'happy' with the current order of ages. They're just mostly fed by A: the Elite and B: dissonant tones of various parties fighting each other instead of the elite. Why WOULDN'T spiritual forces be interested in a new paradigm carried by devoted practitioners?

I agree with you. But in terms of effective power in this world, and to bring a brand new analogy, these spiritual forces are the equivalent of the bees suddenly swarming in Israel, and the operations of the elites are Israel's military power. No amount of bees would stop them from ravaging the world the same way that no amount of spiritual light could change this world for the best, much less a bunch of independent practitioners with zero cohesion between one another, as much as they supposedly share the same symbolic and philosophical frameworks. I think that, in the other side of the cube though, the dynamics are radically different and the whole of this abominable energetic egregore could only curl into as astral vermin. I think the difference between the mentioned cult and the elite's secret society hierarchical cluster is merely in levels of exposure, criticality and vulnerability. In other words, there are disposable fronts and there are the essential groups composing the body of it. I don't think any accessible group currently operates without their permission in today's world, and most of them can only continue to operate as long as it serves directly or not to the main operation, being it through traumatizing, manipulation, mere diversion or some other form. It's not by accident that new-age cults were so disseminated to the public lately. It doesn't serve directly to their purpose (sometimes), but it never gets to the point where they could become an actual nuisance. But enough with the crippling pessimism of the external reality.

My point and personal conviction here is that, it is counter-productive (to be really euphemistic) to use any of those symbolic frameworks to do any sort of spiritual practice, inner or outer oriented. What I would suggest is that the Luciferian and or Promethean philosophy, when practiced by any of us commoners, can't be subjected to the same shared language and framework any longer if the idea is to cultivate the core principle of authenticity and to preserve the individual's spiritual/energetic/physical safety and health in this world. I know it seems an exhausting and even paranoid idea to "ditch" the traditional symbolic frameworks of practice, but it's very important to try and link the points that would eventually lead to one original emanation or common cultural point of said literature. I have my own filters of course and each individual has it's own, but in the end, it seems more transgressive (therefore objectively good, IMO) than ever to build your own framework and narrative based on what you have learned from your own Gnosis. And within that, ultimately, to know, to dare, to will and, now most importantly than ever, to keep silent. I honestly believe we must evaluate our relations of respect towards the 'supposedly knowing subject' thoroughly before giving it any serious attention and dedication, with the utmost sense of pride in oneself for that matter.

 

[DKalvisha]

There are (supposedly) two forms of Luciferianism. So let’s try a thought experiment on that.

One, nearing the biblical fable or the poetic, close to the Paradise Lost mythos, is practiced by the financial elite, along with doctrines and traditions that exists since the dawn of civilization. The "Luciferians" mentioned when you watch a video of some human traffic victim disclosing details about their aggressors, usually big pictures from society, politicians, bankers, etc. Lucifer taken as the Lord of this World, the Lord of the Armies of Hell, the light bringer who favors their chosen initiates, descending from specific ancient bloodlines. The liberator who liberates only their select group of sickos, granting them ridiculous amounts of power over others, which translates into direct personal freedom for them. One might say it's working, since those who are deeply involved in such practices within those societies, are the ones who have actual unlimited power over the collective, and therefore freedom, at least in this world. Those initiates are the ones who builds altars of pure gold, fueling them with the blood and flesh of countless sacrifices, powered by a complex and ancient social structure built to feed this specific egregore. They spend enormous amounts of resources on their sacrifices, have complete access to secret knowledge, they pay skilled sorcerers and magicians handsomely, just to keep the flame alive. They make collective sex rituals of epic proportions, under the undying symbols of their deities. So, if the elites are actually involved in such cults, cults of the primitive gods, where deities such as Baal and/or Moloch are glorified under the aegis of "Lucifer" (even if mistakenly)...a Lucifer seen as a villainous tyrant, power hungry beast, general of infernal armies that favors the ones who benefits them the most, the ones who are willing to abandon everything in exchange of material power, regardless of morality, purity of intention or ethics, or simply those of a specific genetic ancestry. That is to say, Lucifer seen as what Christians would call Satan or the Devil, revered as the vengeful fallen angel, the sadistic, power hungry, bestial force seething in the depths of Hell, and ultimately, full of hatred against all of God's creation, specially human beings. Even if this isn't accurate in the concept of most of the LHP writers (at least those who actually publishes something to the public), let's suppose for a moment that there are endless resources being poured on this specific egregore for centuries.

The other one, as you might suspect, is the modern Luciferianism. The one closer to the Michael W. Ford practical approach, to the philosophy of the Thelema, to Chaos Magick and contemporary esoteric "psychonautic", witchcraft and neo-paganism, one which incorporates Gnostic values such as overcoming the illusions, powering knowledge-seeking habits and breaking the chains of the collective over the individual and so forth, to the Hermetic principles of alchemy and archetypes, practices that you could picture a "commoner" getting involved with. Not the commoner in terms of mental disposition, I'm not referring to the normie, but simply people who are not the financial elite of the world. Workers, students, small business owners, et cetera. Even "pure" practitioners, people who devote their lives to the practice, but are inevitably mediocre in terms of material wealth. If the purpose of such practice is to reach enlightenment, to waken their hidden potential, and, aligned with demonic practices (through ceremonial Goetia or modern Demonolatry practices) to attain certain goals, objectively or subjectively. Or, we could mention other forms of magic, even some sorts of shamanism, relying on the name and sigil of Lucifer as a representative of certain spiritual virtues, or aspects of the Soul. Lucifer seen as the initiator of the individual practitioner, who awakens the inner black flame of the magician and guides them through their alchemical path of inner transformation. The deity or archetype that illuminates the path of the psyche to beyond the scales of cosmic rule, the amoral spiritual rebel to be incorporated by the practitioner. Picture a guy who works for some company for mediocre wage. This guy is self initiated, or was initiated in some Crowley-inspired esoteric order when he was in college. He keeps his altar/space in constant check, feeds the egregore of a specific demon/deity, practices ceremonial magick regularly (either to "clock in" or with strong intentional purpose), and so forth. He keeps the flame alive, he wants to escape the rat race at all costs in order to fully dedicate themselves to their cause, whatever it may be. So you see a lot of strong will and intention here. But you don't see palpable results. You see surges of inspiration here and there, once in a while, but not any verifiable favor granted in terms of contingency. On the contrary, he experiences increasingly complex challenges confronting the guy in day-to-day life, which he takes as tests (much like the common religious people experiences earthly life). And so he takes this path forward, sometimes not even expecting significant improvements at all.

The big question(s) is(are): could the will and intention of the individual practitioner possibly overpower the intensity of the elite practice, if interests collide (they essentially do)? Would the "purity" of purpose really make a difference in this, since the demons or even Lucifer are often seen as amoral forces? What if the gods favorites are the ones in power, even for the Promethean egregores, while we're all fooling ourselves, thinking they would help enable our hidden powers to move forward and attain relative independence (which is unacceptable to the elite, who also practices magic, allegedly within the same sigils, aegis and doctrines as we do, but objectively, materially better in terms of form, consistency and quality of offerings)? Yeah, I do believe that any objective-oriented practice done by a common citizen in the world will necessarily, without any doubt, would clash with any Matrix/Prison oriented goals of the external world, except if the magician's purpose is to become a smooth brained cattle, smartphone wageslave with nowhere to go, with not an ounce of land to even die on top of. One could say that the elite are not actually Luciferians, that they actually worship Saturn and so forth, but the problem stands. What about the independent practitioner that devoted his/her life to the Cult of Saturn? What about this individual's purposes in contrast to the purposes of the elite who works over the collective of which the practitioner is merely a part of?
Imagine this scenario...every demon, entity or divinity would be "down for action" if huge amounts of energy offered is involved. So they would certainly benefit those corrupted parties and ditch any sort of true esoteric valued work coming from a broke blue-collar worker that can't even afford to light a pretty candle everyday in his altar, even if maintaining strong will and a directed mind. So, if Lucifer and the demons under him, within this mythos, are all somewhat affordable and amoral, they would benefit these elites much more than they could benefit a lonely practitioner, even if their practices are not conceptually or philosophically "on point". Yeah, they could be calling the Demiurge/False god "Lucifer", just like monotheists calls the Demiurge their "God". They could just be involved in a practice that has nothing to do with Lucifer in any sense. But you get my drift...if they are feeding, enpowering and declaring such names, such sigils, such egregores, the same ones that common practitioners also worship or seek to integrate psychically with very limited time and resources...then I guess the commoner (we) have a big problem with any sorts of magical practice. Because interests would never be aligned. It's the same problem with money magic. You're always clashing with bigger centers of power using the same names, the same symbols, the same archetypes, to attract a pity amount of prosperity that originates from a source controlled by the elites...also through magic, not to mention an extremely resourceful and complex apparatus beyond the rituals.
Are the bigger collective centers of power ruining our own personal centers of power? My guess is yes. And if I'm not wrong, is there a solution to this? Or would be better for the commoner to just appeal to another force, or to try and integrate themselves with another type of archetype? To align ourselves with frequencies of vibration that those of the elite has no access to (which is unlikely)? One could say that the elites are being fooled by other types of entities, malevolent, tricky ones they can't even comprehend...then why are them so favored, why can they get away with anything, why can they have such material freedom and why do they keep practicing it regardless of what any theory or esoteric knowledge would prescribe?

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 3:10 PM

Do you think demons are a variation of archons? I’m very interested in demons, and I don’t think they are evil, I’m just questioning whether there is any connection between them. This really confuses me I feel like no matter what I do, I’m somehow serving the archons, and it feels terrible.

 

[KjEno186]

The big question(s) is(are): could the will and intention of the individual practitioner possibly overpower the intensity of the elite practice, if interests collide (they essentially do)? Would the "purity" of purpose really make a difference in this, since the demons or even Lucifer are often seen as amoral forces? What if the gods favorites are the ones in power, even for the Promethean egregores, while we're all fooling ourselves, thinking they would help enable our hidden powers to move forward and attain relative independence (which is unacceptable to the elite, who also practices magic, allegedly within the same sigils, aegis and doctrines as we do, but objectively, materially better in terms of form, consistency and quality of offerings)?

Lots of questions. My take is that outcomes depend on time. An individual who is just "waking up" has to work through a lot of existing life circumstances and indoctrinated beliefs in order to become "effective" in practice, assuming one even knows where to begin. The first order of business, to "Know Thyself" is often skipped to get those things one thinks one wants. Long-lasting egregores already have a purpose, and their intents are perceived by the outcomes. I believe that the so-called "elites" are just actors on the stage of life themselves, often barely cognizant of the roles they play. The script is written, and they play their parts.

Something that annoys me is that there's a current rather virulent trend towards openly decrying the 'satanic' elite. At this point in history, between the most recently publicized war, and the commoner Christian's publicly popular obsession with Epstein Island, there are enough people that are generally very sick of the system. The problem with this is that this public egregore running mass consciousness is basically long-term elite maintenance of a primarily mystic kabalistic/christian/egyptian egregore.

Those sorts of comments (about the Satanic elite) often appear beneath videos I watch about popular culture, movies, games, etc. The mainstream media focus on Epstein, however, is quite shallow and intermittent. The purpose of the News is not to inform so much as to promote useful ignorance and obedience. From my point of view, the comments I sometimes see reek of psy-op. That is, they seem to be a means of manipulating a portion of the population which resonates with anti-establishment feelings yet somehow still believes that there is a system which can bring about a form of "justice" to deal with the problem. The degree of success or failure in this narrative is likely measured, not to bring about solutions, but to manage perceptions. As such they are allowed because of their usefulness to the over-arching egregore(s).

I have a neutral perspective on "Lucifer." It's a very muddled concept in my mind. Perhaps the idea it represents to any individual is a reflection of their indoctrination. Words are useful to a degree, but they are symbols of reality, assisting perception to create personal meaning. It is similar to the word "Satan." This word can mean different things to different people depending on their indoctrination. There is the Christian caricature, of course, based less on scripture than on later European stereotypes. Then there is the "good" Satan, really a rejection of legalistic, authoritarian Christianity, what I prefer to call Paulianity. I suppose you could call me an antinomian Christian since I reject Paul's sect. But I do not consider Satan "good," because I have read Rene Girard's work on the Scapegoat mechanism, a subset of the Mimetic Theory of Desire. To summarize, Satan is the egregore that uses "scandal" to gradually turn a "war of all against all" into a "war of all against one." At the pinnacle of the process, the Scapegoat is eliminated, funneling all the pent up anger of society into it and restoring peace to the system for a time. As Girard put it, Satan perpetuates his rule of humanity by this manipulation. The goal is a semblance of order. The "morality" of the time is merely a tool to emotionally charge the culture in which the process proceeds through the cycle. To be an "amoral" Satanist is just playing a part in the play, specifically to cause "scandal" which gradually builds up to its inevitable peak.

"The tendency to attribute society’s imperfections to scapegoats both within and without is certainly universal but, instead of discouraging and denouncing it, totalitarian societies foster and systematize it. They nourish with victims the myth of their own perfection, which they wish to promote." - Rene Girard

The goal of the egregores is survival, and the threat to their survival is a breakdown in order. The strongest magic is to be found in laws and propaganda, not in orgies or blood rituals. But it is convenient if a portion of the population is deceived into believing the latter.

Do you think demons are a variation of archons?

To put it simply, Daimons are beings. You might say that your higher self is your Holy Daimon, a portion of which manifests as your physical body and present personality. The Archons of the Gnostics are possibly a group of daimons which, according to stories like The Hypostasis of the Archons, manifest near our physical reality, often manipulating it to their purposes. I do not believe that the Christian caricature of "good" angels and "evil" demons/daimons exists. I do believe that we live in a world of daimons, that which we often call "spirits," and it is possible to work with some of them. So, the "archons" are just a part of the daimonic reality. My personal gnosis and all that.

 

[DKalvisha]

Lots of questions. My take is that outcomes depend on time. An individual who is just "waking up" has to work through a lot of existing life circumstances and indoctrinated beliefs in order to become "effective" in practice, assuming one even knows where to begin. The first order of business, to "Know Thyself" is often skipped to get those things one thinks one wants. Long-lasting egregores already have a purpose, and their intents are perceived by the outcomes. I believe that the so-called "elites" are just actors on the stage of life themselves, often barely cognizant of the roles they play. The script is written, and they play their parts.


These sorts of comments often appear beneath videos I watch about popular culture, movies, games, etc. The mainstream media focus on Epstein, however, is quite shallow and intermittent. The purpose of the News is not to inform so much as to promote useful ignorance and obedience. From my point of view, the comments I sometimes see reek of psy-op. That is, they seem to be a means of manipulating a portion of the population which resonates with anti-establishment feelings yet somehow still believes that there is a system which can bring about a form of "justice" to deal with the problem. The degree of success or failure in this narrative is likely measured, not to bring about solutions, but to manage perceptions. As such they are allowed because of their usefulness to the over-arching egregore(s).

I have a neutral perspective on "Lucifer." It's a very muddled concept in my mind. Perhaps the idea it represents to any individual is a reflection of their indoctrination. Words are useful to a degree, but they are symbols of reality, assisting perception to create personal meaning. It is similar to the word "Satan." This word can mean different things to different people depending on their indoctrination. There is the Christian caricature, of course, based less on scripture than on later European stereotypes. Then there is the "good" Satan, really a rejection of legalistic, authoritarian Christianity, what I prefer to call Paulianity. I suppose you could call me an antinomian Christian since I reject Paul's sect. But I do not consider Satan "good," because I have read Rene Girard's work on the Scapegoat mechanism, a subset of the Mimetic Theory of Desire. To summarize, Satan is the egregore that uses "scandal" to gradually turn a "war of all against all" into a "war of all against one." At the pinnacle of the process, the Scapegoat is eliminated, funneling all the pent up anger of society into it and restoring peace to the system for a time. As Girard put it, Satan perpetuates his rule of humanity by this manipulation. The goal is a semblance of order. The "morality" of the time is merely a tool to emotionally charge the culture in which the process proceeds through the cycle. To be an "amoral" Satanist is just playing a part in the play, specifically to cause "scandal" which gradually builds up to its inevitable peak.

"The tendency to attribute society’s imperfections to scapegoats both within and without is certainly universal but, instead of discouraging and denouncing it, totalitarian societies foster and systematize it. They nourish with victims the myth of their own perfection, which they wish to promote." - Rene Girard

The goal of the egregores is survival, and the threat to their survival is a breakdown in order. The strongest magic is to be found in laws and propaganda, not in orgies or blood rituals. But it is convenient if a portion of the population is deceived into believing the latter.


To put it simply, Daimons are beings. You might say that your higher self is your Holy Daimon, a portion of which manifests as your physical body and present personality. The Archons of the Gnostics are possibly a group of daimons which, according to stories like The Hypostasis of the Archons, manifest near our physical reality, often manipulating it to their purposes. I do not believe that the Christian caricature of "good" angels and "evil" demons/daimons exists. I do believe that we live in a world of daimons, that which we often call "spirits," and it is possible to work with some of them. So, the "archons" are just a part of the daimonic reality. My personal gnosis and all that.

Lots of questions. My take is that outcomes depend on time. An individual who is just "waking up" has to work through a lot of existing life circumstances and indoctrinated beliefs in order to become "effective" in practice, assuming one even knows where to begin. The first order of business, to "Know Thyself" is often skipped to get those things one thinks one wants. Long-lasting egregores already have a purpose, and their intents are perceived by the outcomes. I believe that the so-called "elites" are just actors on the stage of life themselves, often barely cognizant of the roles they play. The script is written, and they play their parts.


These sorts of comments often appear beneath videos I watch about popular culture, movies, games, etc. The mainstream media focus on Epstein, however, is quite shallow and intermittent. The purpose of the News is not to inform so much as to promote useful ignorance and obedience. From my point of view, the comments I sometimes see reek of psy-op. That is, they seem to be a means of manipulating a portion of the population which resonates with anti-establishment feelings yet somehow still believes that there is a system which can bring about a form of "justice" to deal with the problem. The degree of success or failure in this narrative is likely measured, not to bring about solutions, but to manage perceptions. As such they are allowed because of their usefulness to the over-arching egregore(s).

I have a neutral perspective on "Lucifer." It's a very muddled concept in my mind. Perhaps the idea it represents to any individual is a reflection of their indoctrination. Words are useful to a degree, but they are symbols of reality, assisting perception to create personal meaning. It is similar to the word "Satan." This word can mean different things to different people depending on their indoctrination. There is the Christian caricature, of course, based less on scripture than on later European stereotypes. Then there is the "good" Satan, really a rejection of legalistic, authoritarian Christianity, what I prefer to call Paulianity. I suppose you could call me an antinomian Christian since I reject Paul's sect. But I do not consider Satan "good," because I have read Rene Girard's work on the Scapegoat mechanism, a subset of the Mimetic Theory of Desire. To summarize, Satan is the egregore that uses "scandal" to gradually turn a "war of all against all" into a "war of all against one." At the pinnacle of the process, the Scapegoat is eliminated, funneling all the pent up anger of society into it and restoring peace to the system for a time. As Girard put it, Satan perpetuates his rule of humanity by this manipulation. The goal is a semblance of order. The "morality" of the time is merely a tool to emotionally charge the culture in which the process proceeds through the cycle. To be an "amoral" Satanist is just playing a part in the play, specifically to cause "scandal" which gradually builds up to its inevitable peak.

"The tendency to attribute society’s imperfections to scapegoats both within and without is certainly universal but, instead of discouraging and denouncing it, totalitarian societies foster and systematize it. They nourish with victims the myth of their own perfection, which they wish to promote." - Rene Girard

The goal of the egregores is survival, and the threat to their survival is a breakdown in order. The strongest magic is to be found in laws and propaganda, not in orgies or blood rituals. But it is convenient if a portion of the population is deceived into believing the latter.


To put it simply, Daimons are beings. You might say that your higher self is your Holy Daimon, a portion of which manifests as your physical body and present personality. The Archons of the Gnostics are possibly a group of daimons which, according to stories like The Hypostasis of the Archons, manifest near our physical reality, often manipulating it to their purposes. I do not believe that the Christian caricature of "good" angels and "evil" demons/daimons exists. I do believe that we live in a world of daimons, that which we often call "spirits," and it is possible to work with some of them. So, the "archons" are just a part of the daimonic reality. My personal gnosis and all that.

First of all, thank you for your response. I can actually expand my question a bit: Do demons (the 72 demons in Goetia), when making a pact with them, bind us spiritually to this world? Because blood is required in such agreements, and blood is life force. So what I’m really wondering is: if demons are a variation of archons, does making a pact with demons mean we are indirectly serving the archons? (Sorry if my sentence is a bit messy)

 

[KjEno186]

First of all, thank you for your response. I can actually expand my question a bit: Do demons (the 72 demons in Goetia), when making a pact with them, bind us spiritually to this world? Because blood is required in such agreements, and blood is life force. So what I’m really wondering is: if demons are a variation of archons, does making a pact with demons mean we are indirectly serving the archons? (Sorry if my sentence is a bit messy)

This is a good question, but it might go beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[DKalvisha]

This is a good question, but it might go beyond the scope of this thread.

Oh I see. Thanks

 

[JGVDRG]

Do you think demons are a variation of archons?

Our friend KjEno186 answered this question beautifully, but I'll give you my own (probably confusing and oddly specific) perspective.

Demons are not a variation of Archons. We are talking about different functions here. I believe demons are different than the Daimon in the sense of an incorporeal being or an intellect. This Daimon/Daemon in my opinion is a term used similarly as 'spirit', I prefer to call them simply as beings or incorporeal beings, because I tend to mix up the terms.
Let's put it this way. Some syncretic traditions based on Yoruba mythology/cosmogony categorizes the spirits of the dead as the Egun and malevolent spirits as the Kiumba. I like this distinction.

The Egun are the people that used to live here who have died. Our ancestors are Egun (if they are not currently living an incarnation here or in another physical planet, or haven't transcended their astral forms). They inhabit the astral plane of Earth (the astral Earth). If an Egun can influence you positively or negatively, it's because it knows how to do it, it is a medium of sorts, and they can interact with incarnated people in the physical realm (us). If you are a medium, it's very likely that you can communicate with them somehow. Medium or not, we share our lives with them, we are just predominantly living the physical reality in this lifetime, but we can commune with the astral plane actively. They are not elemental beings or purely inhabitants of the astral plane, since they can reincarnate in here from time to time. Most of them can't even leave the state of Bardo (transitional state between death of the body and the astral realm).

The Kiumba are basically tormented Egun and they are likely to have some knowledge on sorcery, so they act on very defined purpose (of wreaking havoc and consuming dense energy). They usually function as carriers of harmful magic, from magicians or other more powerful astral beings. They have a very intense connection with the physical world and they haven't managed to leave this link. So they consume sacrifices, are empowered by blood rituals, energies of suffering and all sort of dense outbursts of astral energy coming from the physical Earth. They are what the mainstream Christians usually calls "demons". Just predominantly evil and knowledgeable dead folk. Astral vampires, "criminals" and shit.

The Demons, like the 72 Goetic Spirits or the beings from Dukanté traditions of Demonolatry, are a bit more subtle and if we think in terms of hierarchy they are way 'above' the Egun and the Kiumba, because they can instrumentalise or weaponize them. Each Demon (let's say Sitri for instance) is a phalanx or an almost archetypal reference of a force of the cosmos or chaos, a liminal sphere of influence between the astral realm and the psychic reality of the collective unconscious (not necessarily the human collective unconscious). So they have a specific function, a very complex one for that matter, and they can mobilize both astral beings and the human unconscious behavior to produce certain outcomes, desired by the magician or not. The demon is an external being and a kingdom of sorts, and it is also a reference in your unconscious mind (and this is where the whole allegory of the connection between the 'fallen angels' and humanity takes place). You could even say that, solely from a human perspective, they are psychic beings, in the sense that they live in the psyche (as well) and they can act as complexes and psychoids in terms of Jungian psychology, depending on their activity. Which means they are fucking powerful, lol. In terms of morality and ethics, it's simply impossible to describe generally, since they are whole worlds and they have different modus operandi. But one could say that the trickster-ish attitude towards humanity is a constant, for good or not. Despite being arguably beings of chaos, they have very interesting relations with the cosmic aspects of the Earth (elements, the zodiac, symbolic/conceptual correspondences, and so on). I would say they are extremely complex and difficult to categorize.

The Archons are, in my opinion, beings that are involved in the functions of managing the earthly order, more specifically in the human sphere of influence. They are actively working to maintain the engine working, both in the physical and the astral realms of this Earth. Some speculate that they are the working forces behind the incarnation-reincarnation loop of lesser conscious beings (us) in this world, perpetuating the mundane order, causing certain things to happen and they would have close ties with the world’s elite. They manipulate and coordinate astral and physical forces in order to produce certain contingencies that would necessarily result in strengthening the ties between the collective mind (noosphere), the development civilization and the individual consciousness (mental assimilation). Long story short, they actively work to keep us entangled with illusions, enslaving us and, why not speculate that, to work along the referred elite groups to experiment with collective human behavior. This world is their sandbox, their experimentation grounds and their playground for all sorts of nasty stuff. They enable all of this: the industrial-military complex, the war industry, the religious institutions, the mainstream currents of thought, intrusive thoughts, self-destructive behavior, mass psychosis and hysteria, the pharmaceutical industry. They are most likely the ones who pose as gods and demons to the elite groups, and the ones that have been doing this for millenia. They are probably soulless constructs, parasitic beings. It would be reasonable to suggest that they have complicated relations with Demons, since the Demons have been offering humanity forbidden knowledge that could disrupt their plans in the long run. Yahweh, in my opinion, is an Archon, since his function is of an Archon.

And I think none of the above are trustworthy and none of them are actually interested in the liberation of humanity, much less the deification of Mankind. Angels are the same case, they are enrolled in a lore that is strange to us and often adversarial to our goals as humanity. I believe we have our own lore with the Father (Monad), and no intermediates should be followed as reliable guides since all of them have very strong biases. We have our divine gifts, wisdom, intelligence, insight, infinite potential for spiritual development, and in my belief, this links us directly to the Supreme Being/Supreme Good. So I would argue that external operative magic, which gives way by communicating to those intermediate beings, are complementary, secondary tools at best, not the 'main quest'. Some of it is worth it for the pleasure of knowing, though. As long as it doesn't jeopardize your primordial journey as a human soul in development, or poses a brutal obstacle between you and the Spirit, it's all good.

 

[DKalvisha]

Our friend KjEno186 answered this question beautifully, but I'll give you my own (probably confusing and oddly specific) perspective.

Demons are not a variation of Archons. We are talking about different functions here. I believe demons are different than the Daimon in the sense of an incorporeal being or an intellect. This Daimon/Daemon in my opinion is a term used similarly as 'spirit', I prefer to call them simply as beings or incorporeal beings, because I tend to mix up the terms.
Let's put it this way. Some syncretic traditions based on Yoruba mythology/cosmogony categorizes the spirits of the dead as the Egun and malevolent spirits as the Kiumba. I like this distinction.

The Egun are the people that used to live here who have died. Our ancestors are Egun (if they are not currently living an incarnation here or in another physical planet, or haven't transcended their astral forms). They inhabit the astral plane of Earth (the astral Earth). If an Egun can influence you positively or negatively, it's because it knows how to do it, it is a medium of sorts, and they can interact with incarnated people in the physical realm (us). If you are a medium, it's very likely that you can communicate with them somehow. Medium or not, we share our lives with them, we are just predominantly living the physical reality in this lifetime, but we can commune with the astral plane actively. They are not elemental beings or purely inhabitants of the astral plane, since they can reincarnate in here from time to time. Most of them can't even leave the state of Bardo (transitional state between death of the body and the astral realm).

The Kiumba are basically tormented Egun and they are likely to have some knowledge on sorcery, so they act on very defined purpose (of wreaking havoc and consuming dense energy). They usually function as carriers of harmful magic, from magicians or other more powerful astral beings. They have a very intense connection with the physical world and they haven't managed to leave this link. So they consume sacrifices, are empowered by blood rituals, energies of suffering and all sort of dense outbursts of astral energy coming from the physical Earth. They are what the mainstream Christians usually calls "demons". Just predominantly evil and knowledgeable dead folk. Astral vampires, "criminals" and shit.

The Demons, like the 72 Goetic Spirits or the beings from Dukanté traditions of Demonolatry, are a bit more subtle and if we think in terms of hierarchy they are way 'above' the Egun and the Kiumba, because they can instrumentalise or weaponize them. Each Demon (let's say Sitri for instance) is a phalanx or an almost archetypal reference of a force of the cosmos or chaos, a liminal sphere of influence between the astral realm and the psychic reality of the collective unconscious (not necessarily the human collective unconscious). So they have a specific function, a very complex one for that matter, and they can mobilize both astral beings and the human unconscious behavior to produce certain outcomes, desired by the magician or not. The demon is an external being and a kingdom of sorts, and it is also a reference in your unconscious mind (and this is where the whole allegory of the connection between the 'fallen angels' and humanity takes place). You could even say that, solely from a human perspective, they are psychic beings, in the sense that they live in the psyche (as well) and they can act as complexes and psychoids in terms of Jungian psychology, depending on their activity. Which means they are fucking powerful, lol. In terms of morality and ethics, it's simply impossible to describe generally, since they are whole worlds and they have different modus operandi. But one could say that the trickster-ish attitude towards humanity is a constant, for good or not. Despite being arguably beings of chaos, they have very interesting relations with the cosmic aspects of the Earth (elements, the zodiac, symbolic/conceptual correspondences, and so on). I would say they are extremely complex and difficult to categorize.

The Archons are, in my opinion, beings that are involved in the functions of managing the earthly order, more specifically in the human sphere of influence. They are actively working to maintain the engine working, both in the physical and the astral realms of this Earth. Some speculate that they are the working forces behind the incarnation-reincarnation loop of lesser conscious beings (us) in this world, perpetuating the mundane order, causing certain things to happen and they would have close ties with the world’s elite. They manipulate and coordinate astral and physical forces in order to produce certain contingencies that would necessarily result in strengthening the ties between the collective mind (noosphere), the development civilization and the individual consciousness (mental assimilation). Long story short, they actively work to keep us entangled with illusions, enslaving us and, why not speculate that, to work along the referred elite groups to experiment with collective human behavior. This world is their sandbox, their experimentation grounds and their playground for all sorts of nasty stuff. They enable all of this: the industrial-military complex, the war industry, the religious institutions, the mainstream currents of thought, intrusive thoughts, self-destructive behavior, mass psychosis and hysteria, the pharmaceutical industry. They are most likely the ones who pose as gods and demons to the elite groups, and the ones that have been doing this for millenia. They are probably soulless constructs, parasitic beings. It would be reasonable to suggest that they have complicated relations with Demons, since the Demons have been offering humanity forbidden knowledge that could disrupt their plans in the long run. Yahweh, in my opinion, is an Archon, since his function is of an Archon.

And I think none of the above are trustworthy and none of them are actually interested in the liberation of humanity, much less the deification of Mankind. Angels are the same case, they are enrolled in a lore that is strange to us and often adversarial to our goals as humanity. I believe we have our own lore with the Father (Monad), and no intermediates should be followed as reliable guides since all of them have very strong biases. We have our divine gifts, wisdom, intelligence, insight, infinite potential for spiritual development, and in my belief, this links us directly to the Supreme Being/Supreme Good. So I would argue that external operative magic, which gives way by communicating to those intermediate beings, are complementary, secondary tools at best, not the 'main quest'. Some of it is worth it for the pleasure of knowing, though. As long as it doesn't jeopardize your primordial journey as a human soul in development, or poses a brutal obstacle between you and the Spirit, it's all good.

Actually, I agree with your perspective. It definitely sounds very logical to me.

As for the conflict between demons and archons, I definitely think that makes sense as well, because demons are said to have brought forbidden knowledge to humanity. However, if the archons are the guardians of this system, how did they allow that to happen? That’s where things become a bit confusing.
And yes, fundamentally, I don’t think any entity should be trusted completely anyway. I follow the LHP myself. However, I sometimes think that Goetic demons can be approached for help with magic and worldly desires.

I also tend to think that Yahweh and Adonai (the Hebrew names of God—I don’t remember them exactly) are directly connected to the archons.

But then what are the mythological gods?
Also, the Sumerian creation texts are much older than Gnosticism. Weren’t the Sumerian gods the ones who altered our DNA and established civilization? How should they fit into this framework?

 

[KjEno186]

the Sumerian creation texts are much older than Gnosticism. Weren’t the Sumerian gods the ones who altered our DNA and established civilization?

This reminded me of a post by The Ethical Skeptic...

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The Birth of Humanity: A Decree in Hybridization​

​

The gods consented, and Enki, together with the goddess Nintu (the womb goddess), took the task into their hands. They took the blood of the opposing god Kingu (Geshtu-e), slain for his defiance—a god whose essence embodied both divine power and the Anunnaki’s profound resentment over their imprisonment on Earth. Combining his blood with the DNA lineage of Earth—symbolized as ‘spit and clay’—they fashioned humanity.​

​

“From the essence of the gods and the dust of the earth, we mold you,” Nintu declared. “You shall labor on the gods’ behalf and sustain their dominion.”​

Thus, mankind was born, and the burden of the gods’ labor was placed upon human shoulders. For a time, the gods were content, while a form of champagne socialism prevailed to their benefit.​

[...]​

​

In the interim, from the destruction and burial of this mythology onward, Enlil and Enki were merged into a single schizophrenic monotheistic deity—simultaneously embodying both a deep love and a profound hatred for mankind. Whether this mythology originates from pure fantasy or even a romanticized form of reality, as humans began to question the apparent contradictions, they were subjected to indoctrination as to the ‘mysterious ways’ of God—ways so mysterious, apparently, that they could be easily explained through canned rhetoric and children’s fairy tale.​

​

It sure looks a lot like the Gnostic belief in the Archons. The names change, but the behavior is similar enough. There is also something which I used to perceive as ludicrous, but now I'm not so sure: it would seem that the human body once could live far longer than it currently does. These 'gods' apparently didn't find that so useful after a while.

How does this relate to the current elites? Are they somehow in contact with or under control of Archons or Anunnaki? Does all the current medical research and understanding of DNA come from these beings? Are they once again attempting to make hybrid-being-bodies in which they can once again manifest on the material plane? Tales of bloody orgies might simply be the sort of mal-information spread in the public consciousness to maintain a sort of deniability, a cover for the actual purposes of elite "magical" contact for which the mass of humanity isn't prepared to accept. It's better to promise possible contact with "aliens" than to tell humanity that they're just slave rats in some cosmic trans-dimensional laboratory on a swiftly tilting planet... just my personal gnosis. Always keep one's cognitive dissonance alive. Easy answers are for frauds and fools.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[DKalvisha]

This reminded me of a post by The Ethical Skeptic...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Birth of Humanity: A Decree in Hybridization​

​

The gods consented, and Enki, together with the goddess Nintu (the womb goddess), took the task into their hands. They took the blood of the opposing god Kingu (Geshtu-e), slain for his defiance—a god whose essence embodied both divine power and the Anunnaki’s profound resentment over their imprisonment on Earth. Combining his blood with the DNA lineage of Earth—symbolized as ‘spit and clay’—they fashioned humanity.​

​

Thus, mankind was born, and the burden of the gods’ labor was placed upon human shoulders. For a time, the gods were content, while a form of champagne socialism prevailed to their benefit.​

[...]​

​

In the interim, from the destruction and burial of this mythology onward, Enlil and Enki were merged into a single schizophrenic monotheistic deity—simultaneously embodying both a deep love and a profound hatred for mankind. Whether this mythology originates from pure fantasy or even a romanticized form of reality, as humans began to question the apparent contradictions, they were subjected to indoctrination as to the ‘mysterious ways’ of God—ways so mysterious, apparently, that they could be easily explained through canned rhetoric and children’s fairy tale.​

​

It sure looks a lot like the Gnostic belief in the Archons. The names change, but the behavior is similar enough. There is also something which I used to perceive as ludicrous, but now I'm not so sure: it would seem that the human body once could live far longer than it currently does. These 'gods' apparently didn't find that so useful after a while.

How does this relate to the current elites? Are they somehow in contact with or under control of Archons or Anunnaki? Does all the current medical research and understanding of DNA come from these beings? Are they once again attempting to make hybrid-being-bodies in which they can once again manifest on the material plane? Tales of bloody orgies might simply be the sort of mal-information spread in the public consciousness to maintain a sort of deniability, a cover for the actual purposes of elite "magical" contact for which the mass of humanity isn't prepared to accept. It's better to promise possible contact with "aliens" than to tell humanity that they're just slave rats in some cosmic trans-dimensional laboratory on a swiftly tilting planet... just my personal gnosis. Always keep one's cognitive dissonance alive. Easy answers are for frauds and fools.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Do you think like this, meaning are you implying that the Sumerian gods and the God of today’s religions are the same being or come from the same source? If so, that makes sense to me—I also think this way.

 

[Beyond Everything]

And I think none of the above are trustworthy and none of them are actually interested in the liberation of humanity, much less the deification of Mankind. Angels are the same case, they are enrolled in a lore that is strange to us and often adversarial to our goals as humanity. I believe we have our own lore with the Father (Monad), and no intermediates should be followed as reliable guides since all of them have very strong biases. We have our divine gifts, wisdom, intelligence, insight, infinite potential for spiritual development, and in my belief, this links us directly to the Supreme Being/Supreme Good. So I would argue that external operative magic, which gives way by communicating to those intermediate beings, are complementary, secondary tools at best, not the 'main quest'. Some of it is worth it for the pleasure of knowing, though. As long as it doesn't jeopardize your primordial journey as a human soul in development, or poses a brutal obstacle between you and the Spirit, it's all good.

You're part-way there in understanding, but still leaning on 'divinity' and a 'Supreme Being', which will keep embroiling you in egregores or worse.

 

[john59]

A different way I've seen these two groups presented is 'Luciferians vs Molochians'. Whereas the 'Luciferians would be somebody like Elon Musk and the Molochians would be somebody like Jeffrey Epstein/Klaus Schwab. This youtube channel has more information on this topic:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[JGVDRG]

You're part-way there in understanding, but still leaning on 'divinity' and a 'Supreme Being', which will keep embroiling you in egregores or worse.

I get what you mean. I just believe that God is the Summum Bonum. The parameters are in my own mind and occasionally some elements of info that comes from the outside that resounds with the first ones. It's a constant struggle to escape external contamination and I don't believe anyone would be relieved from experiencing that battle, at least not in this state of existence. So, clinging to a Supreme Good in my experience improves my capacity to reason and to live a better life. Perhaps my mistake was to refer to it as a Supreme Being, since I don't know if it's a 'being'.

 

[WisdomAddict]

Very interesting topic

I get what you mean. I just believe that God is the Summum Bonum. The parameters are in my own mind and occasionally some elements of info that comes from the outside that resounds with the first ones. It's a constant struggle to escape external contamination and I don't believe anyone would be relieved from experiencing that battle, at least not in this state of existence. So, clinging to a Supreme Good in my experience improves my capacity to reason and to live a better life. Perhaps my mistake was to refer to it as a Supreme Being, since I don't know if it's a 'being'.

Looks very like mine but I called myself couple hours ago
A gnostic christian luciferian thelemtie who works for the monad or the great unknownable Im already have no idea what is happening but I'm feeling very alined on my current path that I'm just fully embrace my inner self and be in the complete moment but keeping god in my heart every moment I enjoy....
I somthimes see jelly half ai machines in our astral net outside the earth that is exally like a grid that is half grey dust schemedust is taken place like a blur cartoonissh way like a big reversal machine to miss with our timeline I have seen crazy UFO encounters and having memories of abductions to other realms but to get cleaned like spiritual bath or cleaning and as I moved forward I'm just moving forward to find a way to figure out about the realm of the unknownbale god thing...
I really value from deep of my heart all of your guys at this forum both staff and and users for this beautiful community and I just see that we are living a version of the idea of second coming from any school of soul disicpilnes to get back to 1 the unknowble god because I figured out I was spiritually blind but not to late it was his divine plan for my soul I now say there's only now...

 

[FireBorn]

I thought about this thread for a few days. Too much actually lol. I wrote the following response a few different ways, tore it apart, then landed with the following:

This whole thesis depends on the assumption that the “elites” are all operating inside some unified occult cabal. That is a massive assumption, and the evidence for it is shaky at best. It is not one I personally buy into.

But for the sake of this thought experiment, I think it is important to separate the elite group from the occult belief. Just because someone has money and power does not mean their occult beliefs are correct, effective, unified, or spiritually superior. Those are different buckets. Wealth and power are one thing. Occult efficacy is another. If we collapse those into the same category, we risk assuming whatever we need to assume in order to justify the conclusion.

There are a few things getting flattened here that I think need to be separated.

First: elites. Yes, there are rich and powerful people in the world. They naturally know each other, work with each other, marry into each other’s circles, attend the same schools, sit on the same boards, go to the same clubs, and move through the same social spaces. That is how money and power operate. Some of that may be corrupt. Some of it may be ugly and deeply self serving. But none of that automatically proves a unified occult cabal.

Second: occultism. Some rich and powerful people are probably interested in occultism. Some belong to magical orders, initiatory groups, religious fraternities, or private esoteric circles. Some of those groups may be generational. But generational religious or spiritual belonging isn't automatically sinister. Judaism is generational. Christianity can be generational. Freemasonry can be generational. Folk magic can be generational. Family traditions exist.

Third: people. This is the part that always gets ignored. People are messy. All of them. Rich people, poor people, occultists, Christians, Thelemites, Luciferians, bankers, politicians, artists, celebrities, forum posters, all of us.

People have ego, trauma, ambition, insecurity, fear, need for validation, spiritual hunger, blind spots, filters, and self-serving narratives. The so-called elites are not exempt from being human just because they have money. They are not suddenly better occultists because they have access to gold altars and private islands.

If you found out tomorrow that a large number of elites were Thelemites, would that make Thelema the correct path? Would it prove Thelema works? Would their money and power be evidence of spiritual truth, or just evidence that rich people often find systems that justify and mythologize their own power? That is an important distinction.

Is the efficacy of an occult path proven by material wealth and power? If yes, is that the only metric? And if that is the metric, why are most practitioners not diving headlong into whatever the wealthiest people supposedly practice, as if their lives depended on it? That seems like a very small way to measure occult work to me.

It also assumes that rich and powerful people understand the forces they are working with better than ordinary practitioners do. That doesn't make sense. They may have more money. They may have access to cooler spaces, objects, privacy, and social protection. They may be able to hire specialists or preserve traditions. But that doesn't mean they have better discernment, deeper initiation, or more accurate understanding. They may simply have cooler props.

Public ritual art, elite symbolism, shock aesthetics, and occult imagery can look extremely charged from the outside. But that doesn't automatically tell us what is spiritually happening, if anything. Sometimes rich and famous people may need more visceral, transgressive, theatrical scaffolding because their egos and social environments are already inflated. Hollywood and elite art spaces reward spectacle. That doesn't mean the spectacle is spiritually effective, or even alive. It may just mean it is spectacle.

A bloodline doesn't prove wisdom. A secret room doesn't prove initiation and a ritual attended by powerful people doesn't prove spiritual authority. I mean come on now.

So the question I would ask is this: What evidence is there for one overarching occult path among the so called elite?

Not scattered symbolism. Not rumors. Not aesthetic similarities. Not “this person knew this person.” Not “they use the same mythological names.” Actual evidence of a shared system, shared doctrine, shared ritual technology, shared goal, and shared continuity.

Without that, I think the cleaner explanation is that different powerful people may use different symbols, different systems, different private groups, and different mythologies to justify, enhance, or dramatize the power they already have.

That is very different from saying there is one elite Luciferian egregore overpowering common practitioners.

The other issue is that this thought experiment may accidentally turn “the elite” into a magical super being. As if their collective money, influence, and ritual activity automatically forms one coherent will. I dont think that is sane. Powerful people fight each other constantly. They compete, betray, gossip, leak, posture, fracture, and pursue their own interests. Why would we assume they are suddenly unified and disciplined just because occult language enters the room?

The occult doesn't erase human nature. If anything, it often amplifies it.

So yeah, collective centers of power exist. Money and institutional force shape the world. Symbols and egregores can be fed by attention. Some powerful people may use occult frameworks. But I'd be very careful before assuming that their material power proves their magical prowess, spiritual favor, or dominance over the individual practitioner.

Maybe some of them are powerful occultists. Maybe some are just rich people playing with symbols. Some might be using ritual as theater. Maybe some are working with currents they barely understand. Maybe some are sincere. Maybe some are full of shit.

Same as the rest of us.

Post automatically merged: Today at 5:30 AM

Another quick thought: Are you certain you aren't building an "elites" egregore while accusing the "elites" of building egregores?

 

[WisdomAddict]

I had like connecting dots like how they actually are connected like I heard the like the adult industry are rooted in sex rituals and I heard the elite or the different layers affecting each other like a system based on their the fallen angelic agenda to destroy or remove borders cages once they created like these old camera and carnal sex spreading to lower the vibration of the soul and keep the people feeding those egregores while they use masturbators energy as a battery to feed their egregores and fallen angelic timelines and those kinda content is from another timeline that they are living outside the matrix like the hidden\exposed lifestyles of those who abuse spiritual technologies for fullfiling multisided distractive and distructive activities while consumers they have no idea that motions pictures are holographic timelines that they are saying actually at the same time :
We are sorry that we build cages around you but we are removing cages with soul panic to push you into the next ritual to decive the audience that this will fix your messes and distance we draw with psycholagical factors that they sell you an idea of everything in reversal methods
Idea or definition of sex for example
Or any re-definition of any concept they inforce to the bottom of the pyramid.
Couple months ago my friend told me about how porn egrogores are actually feeding polittions and their power
This actully made all the sense ,how bdsm contents are always made in places and situation that sometimes actors are playing in playing thier roles that those places are the places that they offer and sacrifice souls using sex ritals during their secret meetings like bilderberg that's how they work using spiritual thecnologies rooted in secret traditions and the secret operations are got done. I wanted to make another topic about whole occult roots and system of sexual misary agendas and how and why they are being used in the world Every now and then.