Magick for the sake of others

[Nobody]

Let's say you want to help someone for X or Y reason in their personal life. We notice a lack on their part or a request that they are unable to obtain or fulfil. Can a third person intervene through a ritual to help this person? The use of magic is done without the person being aware of it.

Is this a form of violation of their free will or not? The person is not aware that magick is being used, but the request made by the third party is in response to one of their requests and will not harm/hurt them, quite the contrary. One would think that this is for their own good, but would it be a bad thing if this person didn't explicitly ask someone or if they knew that magick was being used? Thank you.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I had a thought on repelling enemies through a ritual I did, if I could have harmed anyone. There are multiple points to consider.
I would say it is a violation fo their free will. I try to ask others if they want my help.
Funny though, I was thinking about a Magical Friend group, where a group does rituals on behalf on the person off that day, but all six days are spent doing rituals for others. Not sure how it would work.

 

[Nobody]

Funny though, I was thinking about a Magical Friend group, where a group does rituals on behalf on the person off that day, but all six days are spent doing rituals for others. Not sure how it would work.

You raise another question. Will the effectiveness of personal magic always be superior to that performed by others? This time, if there is a common will on both sides.

 

[8Lou1]

ive had people help with witchcraft. even the ones that were done to support and uphold my marriage didnt work due to the fact that i notice the fake love as sort of creating pathways, hints to stay happy. and even though i agreed to it back then , if they had told me it was a done in this manner to me, i would have refused. i have been fighting since that day, hating the fake love they put on me and its still the case, although now i keep my chin up and wait till after death for the rest of the revenge. so no it isnt always a good thing to help with witchcraft, even when the people involved agree.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

You raise another question. Will the effectiveness of personal magic always be superior to that performed by others? This time, if there is a common will on both sides.

Depends on if you've made "inner plane contacts" or contacted a chosen spirit, for example, Zeus. How dare you raise the mighty Zeus up? Because you're the magician, thats why. If you have gonads like that and can make contact...then you will be superior.
If you have no inner plane contacts, then you have goetia, shemhamphoresh, and voodoo. There you may have more success through others if they either have inner plane contacts, or are better than you in method and technique.
My opinion only.

Post automatically merged: Feb 1, 2023

ive had people help with witchcraft. even the ones that were done to support and uphold my marriage didnt work due to the fact that i notice the fake love as sort of creating pathways, hints to stay happy. and even though i agreed to it back then , if they had told me it was a done in this manner to me, i would have refused. i have been fighting since that day, hating the fake love they put on me and its still the case, although now i keep my chin up and wait till after death for the rest of the revenge. so no it isnt always a good thing to help with witchcraft, even when the people involved agree.

Yeah, I tried to heal friends and either heard screams NO or "THATS BLACK MAGICK" from a guttural beast sound. I learned my lesson on that. I always ask and preface it will be through ritual magic ... if they're fine then I proceed.

 

[Yazata]

Let's say you want to help someone for X or Y reason in their personal life. We notice a lack on their part or a request that they are unable to obtain or fulfil. Can a third person intervene through a ritual to help this person? The use of magic is done without the person being aware of it.

Is this a form of violation of their free will or not? The person is not aware that magick is being used, but the request made by the third party is in response to one of their requests and will not harm/hurt them, quite the contrary. One would think that this is for their own good, but would it be a bad thing if this person didn't explicitly ask someone or if they knew that magick was being used? Thank you.

A couple of years ago my niece was diagnosed with breast cancer. I did a couple of rituals with Marbas and Mesheshiah trying to help get rid of it (without her knowing) She had both her breasts removed. That's not really what I imagined but it is a result.
Currently my ex is diagnosed (since about a year) with ovary cancer. I called on Marbas and Mesheshiah again but asked them to give her strength (without her knowing it). She then decided to not get operated. Again, that's more or less the result I asked but I'm not pleased with it. At all.

 

[KjEno186]

Let's imagine you have a product, and you desire that it be forced upon someone. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it is an injection. So, you arrange for the person to be held down and injected against their will. Whether or not you believe it is for their own good, you now have become karmically responsible for the outcome (and if you did it to a lot of people, I can imagine you'd be lucky to reincarnate as toilet bowl slime)...

However, again for the sake of argument, let's say you give the person a choice, and they accept your offer. Whether the outcome is good or not, they've taken karmic responsibility upon themselves as long as you provide exactly what you promise.

Respect free will and protect your karma.

 

[8Lou1]

going further on your imagination. lets say they write a paper you have to sign before you get the injection with such a blurry text you dont even realize you accept the fact you are a willing test animal and sign it. now was this free will or free choice? here where i live the law says that as a citizen you are responsible to educate yourself about the law. only thing is they forgot to tell most of us, so i did some research and your imagination landed in my country too. what do you figure??? i was so surprised. and they didnt even change a law they just said they would. strange days those where....

 

[KjEno186]

what do you figure???

I figure the Devil (metaphorically speaking ) has very good lawyers all over the world... And those lawyers knew ahead of time all the ways to shift the blame to useful fools holding medical degrees. Interesting times....

However, the point of the original topic:

1. You believe your magic works perfectly all the time, and this person needs your help whether they realize it or not. (sin of pride)
2. You're not sure if your magic will do anything anyway, so what is the harm if you try something without telling the recipient? (said no self-respecting magician ever)
3. You believe it's "white magic" as long as your intent is good. Did you perform a divination on the effects of your proposed magical working?

Divination question: "What is the likely outcome if I do this magic in behalf of that person without telling them?"
Also: "What is the likely outcome if I do this magic in behalf of that person with their permission?"

 

[Nobody]

Let's imagine you have a product, and you desire that it be forced upon someone. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it is an injection. So, you arrange for the person to be held down and injected against their will. Whether or not you believe it is for their own good, you now have become karmically responsible for the outcome (and if you did it to a lot of people, I can imagine you'd be lucky to reincarnate as toilet bowl slime)...

I see your point. In the example cited, the weight of the karmic burden is shifted to the end consumer. But what about the use of spurious arguments or the illusion of choice left by the sellers of the product? Is it so easy to "shift" this burden and avoid the karmic consequences. Isn't exploiting the weakness and lack of knowledge of less psychologically/intellectually equipped individuals in itself a risk of karmic repercussions by the knowledge holders/choice givers?

From the outset, there was no choice for the 'end consumer'. The latter has found himself with a product of which he was not aware and has been forced to make a choice of which he is not necessarily fully aware of the outcome and the underlying implications.

 

[KjEno186]

From the outset, there was no choice for the 'end consumer'.

For this reason I do believe that proficiency at divination should be a goal for magicians. Granted, it takes time to learn a method. Ideally, one would make it a daily practice to perform some kind such as Tarot, Geomancy, Astrology, etc. As for "choice," there is the fallacy of the False Dilemma or False Dichotomy. The idea that there are only two possible choices suggests that the person/entity offering those choices expects us to focus only on those options. There are always more than two choices, but it is up to us to Think. Divination helps us to formulate questions, consider options, and develop intuition.

The robber says, "Your money or your life!" Bad karma for him either way as a thief or murderer. One might say a fight is a third option, but only if one has prepared for it. Or what happens if the robber could be convinced to change? Apparently this happened:

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The boss says, "Get a jab or lose your job!" The jab maker is off the hook on this one regardless of its effects for good or ill. Bad karma for your boss who is now committing extortion (a threat used to elicit action which is not within the agreed upon contract). A third option could be a religious exemption. This gets complicated, of course. If the situation becomes highly polarized (politicized, ideological), then conflict can be difficult to avoid or diffuse. A lot of people will "go along to get along," therefore accepting karmic responsibility for the outcome. If we think about this honestly, a LOT of negative things we take for granted in our lives become entrenched exactly because we allowed them space, and at the time it was convenient to do so. This might include such mundane things as where we get our "news" from and how much faith we put into hierarchical systems run by people who are "just doing their jobs." We do the best we know how to do with the information we're given, and sometimes passing the blame feels good at the time, but it's ultimately counterproductive. "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors."

So, what does that mean for the magician? You see someone in need, but maybe they have to take some responsibility for their own situation. You can offer to help in a way that dignifies both of you. Maybe they don't want (or wouldn't want) magic. Is there something else you can do in a way that they'd accept?