Magick not working on drunks, idiots and those dead inside?

[Magpie]

Reading Webb's Energy Magic of the Vampyre book. Page 54, seven rules of magick, rule 3:

"Magic has little effect on the minds of drunk people, stupid people, or folks whose inner life is gone. The uncharged cell phone recieveth not the call".

What do you make of it?

I heard interpretations that drunk people are more susceptible to influence (unfortunate pun). Perhaps the substance itself dulls senses, but the state of addiction makes one vulnerable.

Stupid people is questionable - why would they not be susceptible? Lots of idiots in magick.

Those dead inside I get, if there is no energy, there is nothing to react with. I even recall a case of possible demonic possession that left the victim extremely drained, at which point the forces left him - Harvey Church case. This guy announced, on his trial, that he won't be there at the execution and collapsed. Being barely responsive all the way to being hanged.

Question unrelated to any practice. Rather aimed to getting better understanding of principles.

 

[Anomander Rake]

I think it is nonsense. Especially about stupid people.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

To quote Obi-wan Kenobi - "The Force has an effect on the weak-minded."

 

[Beyond Everything]

Reading Webb's Energy Magic of the Vampyre book. Page 54, seven rules of magick, rule 3:

"Magic has little effect on the minds of drunk people, stupid people, or folks whose inner life is gone. The uncharged cell phone recieveth not the call".

What do you make of it?

Zero validity . A drunk person would actually be more susceptible in some ways

 

[Lion]

Zero validity . A drunk person would actually be more susceptible in some ways

How did being a 'drug feind' impact on Crowley's magic? does anyone know?

 

[saber]

Notably, Alcohol is said to have a solar correspondence, so it could be solar energy interfering with other magickal operations. Seems a bit silly, but different intoxicating substances definitely do have occult effects on the conscious mind, so it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that alcohol, bringing the sun's vitality and openness, could be protective in that fashion.

 

[WonderFire]

The opposite has been my experience. Intoxicated people are usually more vulnerable, though intoxicants have their own influence and can work either for against certain types of magick. Drunk people are actually pretty suggestible and open to all kinds of influence.
Stupidity might be a hindering factor in that there are fewer pathways in the target's mind for magick to work through.

Exception might be spiritual development work, I'd say most intoxicants would be a hindrance and stupidity would be an issue as well.

 

[Firetree]

Notably, Alcohol is said to have a solar correspondence, so it could be solar energy interfering with other magickal operations. Seems a bit silly, but different intoxicating substances definitely do have occult effects on the conscious mind, so it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that alcohol, bringing the sun's vitality and openness, could be protective in that fashion.

In Exo-psychology , the brain is looked at as having 8 levels or 'programs' each is related to a specific psychoactive ( and a stage of individual and species development )

Eg stage 1 - is from conception to after birth , the consciousness is 'reptilian' and centered in the hind brain , the consciousness is lineal and plural and the flight fight (or move towards what feels good or flee-or attack [or start crying out } - what doesn't . The drug for that are narcotics - which eliminate just about everything but the 'warm comfort of the womb .

as we move along the circuits become more advanced and progressive ; 4 on the left side , 4 on the right , the first 4 are to do with our current evolution and the other for future evolution .

some of the other drugs and leves are

2 Anal territorial circuit (child defines 'self' , 'possessions' , personal space and the word and concept 'no' ). Drug 'alcohol' * .

3. Artistic Creative ( child taps into individual creative energies , the 'expression of self' into and onto the outside world - make sure your walls have a good surface - to remover the 'art ' - put up blackboards and colored chalk language, logic, calculating, and manual dexterity are developed . - Drugs are the stimulants ; cocaine, amphetamines, c affine, etc . Consciousness is now operating in frontal cortex

4 . Is socio-sexual circuit - puberty and 'getting used to' that - drug is alcohol *

5 . Crossing over to other side of brain ; neuro hedonistic circuit ; Marijuana and related substances


then it goes on to higher levels of consciousness and the psychedelics ( except for 'genetic level ) where consciousness is cellular .

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:57 AM

so ... depending on the drug and depending on the person's 'balanced development ' ( or not ) in that area ; specific 'drug magic' (like the practitioners of exo-psychology were attempting in their 'therapy sessions' were using ) can be seen as entirely relevant .
That is ... this type of 'magic' might work very well on people with specific addictions , but it was worked out , targeted and was developed as a therapy ... using magical 'technologies' .

 

[FireBorn]

I think the word “little” in Webb’s statement is being overlooked in several responses here. Little effect does not mean no effect.

The better question is whether magick affects someone who is drunk or heavily intoxicated in the same way it would affect that same person while sober. I doubt it does, at least not consistently.

Of course an intoxicated person can still be influenced, and in some respects may be more suggestible or vulnerable. But intoxication also alters attention, judgment, perception, memory, emotional regulation, and behavior. The amount consumed matters, the substance matters, and the individual matters.

A drunk person may receive an influence but respond to it unpredictably, distort it through the intoxicated state, forget it, or simply be too impaired to act on it coherently. That is different from saying the magick cannot reach them.

So I would take Webb’s claim less as “drunk or stupid people are magically immune” and more as “certain targets may be poor or unreliable receivers.” His cell phone metaphor seems to point to that, although grouping intoxicated people, unintelligent people, and those with little inner life together is still an enormous generalization.

In general, I think he makes a solid practical point. Why expend the effort on someone who is drunk, heavily intoxicated, or generally stupid? Within the current of vampirism, that target may offer very little to the practitioner, and I suspect that is closer to what Webb was driving at.

Just my .02. YMMV

 

[Magpie]

Yes I feel FireBorn hit the nail on the head. Magick needs a medium and those folks are faulty in that regard. A drunk person or a stupid person will not be able to channel certain behaviours...