Magick practising Christians?

[slim116]

Heya, bit of a rant.

I was raised pretty hardcore Pentecostal Christian.

Ive had pretty amazing encounters with the Spirit of Christ, but left the church anyway because of a lot of hypocrisy, money focus, and a straight lack of spirituality. It was whole lotta performance, ego feeding, inner circle, cliquey, poetry competition disguised as prayer imo. And a whole bunch of other junk I'd rather not even get started on.

Funnily enough, my Christ experiences were the strongest when i left the church.

But years later i end up in the occult and magick, as i believe a lota exoteric (religion, church) is just community building and emphasis on keeping the machine (church) alive. I felt the esoteric may be a better shot at alignment with Divine, hence why the shift.

Ive worked with Demons, Pagan Gods, and all sorts of spirits. But never really felt the immense grounding compared to Christ, so i recently reconnected with the Spirit of Christ.

Still gonna practice magick, still gonna stay away from Churchianity. But dang it seems my church background has given me A LOT of fuel for magickal correpondences. So why waste something i already got? Might as well create a magickal practice on correspondences already hardwired in my brain.

I mean I'm the kind of person that believes the church does practise magick, just doesnt say it does. I mean the reverence and sacred silence you can feel at crescendo point of a Eucharist in Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, is amazing!

Eh no real point to the story, but I'm jist curious how many of you used to be or still are christian and practice magick?

Is your magick different to your church practice? (ie Pagan Gods for magick, the Trinity for church).

Do you hide your magick from your church associates?

And other ponderings or interesting things you've picked up in your travels, from this unique path.

 

[HoldAll]

Catholicism is a tired dying religion where I live but I guess it's different in countries where Catholics are a minority and Catholicism is viewed as a somewhat exotic faith. Having sat through interminable boring masses as an altar boy, I once asked a priest, years later: "How come that priests always reel off all those impressive formulas with their beautiful poetic images with hardly expressing any emotion at all?" He answered: "Because people don't like it if we get too passionate when saying mass." It's just not done. It's a pity, in a way. What I always did enjoy though was High Mass where you had a big organ, a choir, a small orchestra with strings, trumpets, and tympani - can you imagine a ritual with a 300-strong audience, colourful vestments, gilded implements, incense as well as live classical music in a centuries-old holy space? And then the officiating 'magician' would deliver his incantations in a droning blasé voice as if simply going through the motions… all very spectacular but missed opportunities nonetheless.

What made the Christian faith so attractive compared to Judaism was the inclusion of Christ in the divine realm (in addition to the Holy Spirit who originally only played a minor role with the ancient Hebrews). In a book about Jewish Kabbalah I once read: "The essence of Judaism is that you should love god and that you should fear god." I don't think such an attitude is conducive to mental health but anyway… the USP of Christianity was that it split off the merciful aspect from that supreme murderous tyrant and made him the unequivocally good guy who doesn't engage in Old Testament-style punishing and smiting. I only realised the full extent of this dynamic when I was in a Buddhist country with small shrines everywhere and watched how joyfully people bowed before them - Buddha was the epitome of compassion and lovingkindness for them, completely divorced from that cruel karma machine condemning you to endless rebirths and suffering.

There's a genuine demand for such towering redeemer figures in religion. In many countries, the cult of the Virgin Mary is still so strong that she could be considered divine in her own right - a merciful godess granting miracles to the flock instead of persecuting its members for their sins, and it's the same with saints, e.g. the

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Thus the Christ figure has been spoiled for me by the aenemic cult I witnessed in the flesh in my childhood but for you he seems to be a living, empowering reality, so good on ya.

 

[slim116]

Catholicism is a tired dying religion where I live but I guess it's different in countries where Catholics are a minority and Catholicism is viewed as a somewhat exotic faith. Having sat through interminable boring masses as an altar boy, I once asked a priest, years later: "How come that priests always reel off all those impressive formulas with their beautiful poetic images with hardly expressing any emotion at all?" He answered: "Because people don't like it if we get too passionate when saying mass." It's just not done. It's a pity, in a way. What I always did enjoy though was High Mass where you had a big organ, a choir, a small orchestra with strings, trumpets, and tympani - can you imagine a ritual with a 300-strong audience, colourful vestments, gilded implements, incense as well as live classical music in a centuries-old holy space? And then the officiating 'magician' would deliver his incantations in a droning blasé voice as if simply going through the motions… all very spectacular but missed opportunities nonetheless.

What made the Christian faith so attractive compared to Judaism was the inclusion of Christ in the divine realm (in addition to the Holy Spirit who originally only played a minor role with the ancient Hebrews). In a book about Jewish Kabbalah I once read: "The essence of Judaism is that you should love god and that you should fear god." I don't think such an attitude is conducive to mental health but anyway… the USP of Christianity was that it split off the merciful aspect from that supreme murderous tyrant and made him the unequivocally good guy who doesn't engage in Old Testament-style punishing and smiting. I only realised the full extent of this dynamic when I was in a Buddhist country with small shrines everywhere and watched how joyfully people bowed before them - Buddha was the epitome of compassion and lovingkindness for them, completely divorced from that cruel karma machine condemning you to endless rebirths and suffering.

There's a genuine demand for such towering redeemer figures in religion. In many countries, the cult of the Virgin Mary is still so strong that she could be considered divine in her own right - a merciful godess granting miracles to the flock instead of persecuting its members for their sins, and it's the same with saints, e.g. the

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

.

Thus the Christ figure has been spoiled for me by the aenemic cult I witnessed in the flesh in my childhood but for you he seems to be a living, empowering reality, so good on ya.

I guess the Eucharists Ive only seen were only the ones on youtube with the pope leading it, or orthodox high priests, so it felt pretty dang powerful. I haven't been to a local mass so you have a point there.

And true, since Ive been in pentecostal churches, they never really do old school rituals with set structure, so catholics do seem more exotic to me.

Pentecostals do have rituals though, they wouldnt admit it, but from an anthropological perspective they do, like long sessions of worship music with speaking in tongues and "casting out demons", "prophecying", prayer groups etc.

And I hear ya about Christ being ruined for you, due to old testament god, wrathful and hellfire and brimstone focus of churches. I totally kept Christ away from me for most of my magickal journey for the same reason. But ive also had real epic visions of Christ that made me see churches dont really represent him that well. Took me a long time to separate church-ianity from the deity. I still struggle at times with Christ being tainted with OT wrath and sometimes i think maybe not interacting with the spirit of Christ would be easier.

But when i disconnect, i feel homeless in a soul level, like im in the frontier with no allies, wild west crap shoot, making dodgy alliances to survive, always looking over my shoulder.

So after a few years of trying out different spirit alliances, and new gods, i did a full circle to the Christ spirit. Reconnected, I finally feel like i left the wild west and returned to a kingdom with walls. Safety at last. There is automatic magickal protection, and blessings, boons, benevolence, and a foundation that doesn't budge when the spiritual torrents hit.

 

[Pxan02]

You might really enjoy the works of Brother Ada (THAVMA), he wrote a whole series of books and articles about very orthodox catholic magic that one can practice while remaining fully orthodox. If you are looking for something more into the proper occult side you might want to check Archan publishing which deals with all manners of christian theurgy and magic in a very in depth way.
There are also some works by Frater Acher which might interest you.

 

[KjEno186]

I totally kept Christ away from me for most of my magickal journey for the same reason. But ive also had real epic visions of Christ that made me see churches dont really represent him that well.

It would seem that Jesus' prophesy was true: "I know that after I am gone, [false teachers like] ferocious wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; even from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse and distorted things, to draw away the disciples after themselves [as their followers]." -Acts 20:29-30, Amplified Bible

Though his writings were sincere, I believe Paul was one of these. Jesus focused on mercy and forgiveness. Paul focused on sin. Paul mentioned Adam often. Not once did Jesus ever mention Adam. Jesus used parables to encourage listeners to think. Paul laid out rules. If we are to believe the scriptures, there was a heated argument between Paul and [some of] the other apostles. I take the letters of "Peter" as a pious fraud, likely written by Paul or one of his followers (Sylvanus). Instead of providing additional insights on the time he spent with Jesus, "Peter" focused on OT prophesies, sin, and making Paul look good (2 Peter 3:14-16).

Paul may have been sincere, but what was the outcome? I find I can agree with some things written, depending on the context, but Paul and the other NT writers are not Gospel. The problem is that the apostate Church made the canon of the scriptures, deciding to leave out many texts while including the ones we're all familiar with, and from there the main narratives of Christianity grew and spread like a field sown with seeds of truth and weeds. (Matthew 13:24-30) Paul was mistaken to say that "all scripture is inspired of God." (2 Timothy 3:16) If at least some of the Apostles disagreed with him, no matter how reasonable some of his saying may have been, his interpretations of Christ were just his own personal beliefs. ... And that's my personal belief for the time being.


I see no problem with attending a church where you feel comfortable, perhaps one which isn't too dogmatic or places focus on ritual. If I lived in an area where I could attend an Orthodox church, I think that might appeal to me. The irony is that I have three churches in walking distance including a 'big box' church that plays modern Christian music. Regardless, I know of no church where I could openly admit to practicing magic.

You might really enjoy the works of Brother Ada

Yes, I downloaded Ritual Magic for Conservative Christians from the library a while back. It looks like a good book to read, and the author is fully aware of the challenges:

If the goal of this book is to bring an orthodox magic to Christians from as many denominational traditions as possible, then our first task must be in laying the groundwork for an ecumenical – that is, “across the board” – theology of magical Christianity.​

​

This is no small task, as differences of almost every stripe exist across the denominational spectrum, ranging from Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy which are pretty much pre-packaged magical systems in a state of denial, to the Five-Point Calvinists and Rationalists who intentionally and methodically divorced every shred of spirituality from their religion.​

​

On the one hand, our theology must take into account these denominational differences. On the other hand, our theology must accept that there are some groups – like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christian Scientists, for example – whose teaching is so far outside mainstream Christianity that they can’t be reconciled into even the most ecumenical of systems. This means we must focus on two points: those teachings that have the most support of history, and where we find the most common ground.​

 

[Amadeus]

I was raised without any religion but there were always interests in theology and esoteric stuff. Half of the family tree people were protestants, the rest Orthodox.

Long story short.

I got interested in the Abrahamic systems, bible, Quran, also BOM (book of Mormon) while looking for something to get results with, I wanted to improve everything. From the first moments on all this stuff connected really well. Especially the saint stuff, (Russian Orthodox).
It made me also extremely sensitive to energy work. I found exactly what I was looking for.

I wouldn't call myself exactly Christian because this word makes me think of completely braindead people who can't think beyond their tiny frames. I know people like that and most of them are absolutely crazy. There's clearly something wrong with somebody who thinks every other denomination is filled with "disbelievers" and they all go to hell, and the people who pester priest weekly with the most stupidest questions ever. Oh dear what I have heard over there...

Hiding the details is important because in many communities you'd get kicked out right away. I don't care much about what happens in my church because I usually only visit churches for either supplies or to do in-church rituals at the saint icons.

Communion was important to me for a while when I went through a trial and error phase, drained myself down to zero and couldn't replenish the energy, I couldn't understand certain things. It's just a charging ritual. A high dose of energy from the bread and wine. At some point it becomes unnecessary, if you do something like hesychasm you get a massive charge.

These practices have a lot to offer if you're willing to do "something". Consistently doing practices. Only Orthodoxy and Catholicism got the real juice. There are practices and strong liturgies. Meanwhile some other denominations are having talk shows with singing.

These practices for me are the cornerstones. I like them, effects are great. One of those things I'm doing is hesychasm, this is excellent. You can blend together all kinds of things, it's up to you. You can experiment with grimoires, divination, all the things church forbids. There's nothing wrong, your choice.

I think the same, it's just magic nothing else. They want to give it a different label, well who cares.

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:57 PM

I was raised without any religion but there were always interests in theology and esoteric stuff. Half of the family tree people were protestants, the rest Orthodox.

Long story short.

I got interested in the Abrahamic systems, bible, Quran, also BOM (book of Mormon) while looking for something to get results with, I wanted to improve everything. From the first moments on all this stuff connected really well. Especially the saint stuff, (Russian Orthodox).
It made me also extremely sensitive to energy work. I found exactly what I was looking for.

I wouldn't call myself exactly Christian because this word makes me think of completely braindead people who can't think beyond their tiny frames. I know people like that and most of them are absolutely crazy. There's clearly something wrong with somebody who thinks every other denomination is filled with "disbelievers" and they all go to hell, and the people who pester priest weekly with the most stupidest questions ever. Oh dear what I have heard over there...

Hiding the details is important because in many communities you'd get kicked out right away. I don't care much about what happens in my church because I usually only visit churches for either supplies or to do in-church rituals at the saint icons.

Communion was important to me for a while when I went through a trial and error phase, drained myself down to zero and couldn't replenish the energy, I couldn't understand certain things. It's just a charging ritual. A high dose of energy from the bread and wine. At some point it becomes unnecessary, if you do something like hesychasm you get a massive charge.

These practices have a lot to offer if you're willing to do "something". Consistently doing practices. Only Orthodoxy and Catholicism got the real juice. There are practices and strong liturgies. Meanwhile some other denominations are having talk shows with singing.

These practices for me are the cornerstones. I like them, effects are great. One of those things I'm doing is hesychasm, this is excellent. You can blend together all kinds of things, it's up to you. You can experiment with grimoires, divination, all the things church forbids. There's nothing wrong, your choice.

I think the same, it's just magic nothing else. They want to give it a different label, well who cares.

Post automatically merged: Today at 3:02 PM

Hmm, double post, something bugged over here.

 

[Lurking Magician]

In my country, pretty much all traditional/folk magic is catholicism+magic by intercession of either the saints or the BVM.
(There may be Heavy Sincretism with previous pagan practices, if you know where to look, but those who think they are proof that an ancient pagan cult survived are at best misguided and at worst ignorant).

Also, it absolutely works. My great-grandma did plenty of things, and was a very observant catholic. (I don't know if her priest actually approved or even knew, since the modern catholic church doesn't exactly approve of folk traditions and superstitions. Still, things keep happening, like the holy icon in my city who makes it rain as soon as it's brought out for the annual procession)

 

[Robert Ramsay]

What I always did enjoy though was High Mass where you had a big organ, a choir, a small orchestra with strings, trumpets, and tympani - can you imagine a ritual with a 300-strong audience, colourful vestments, gilded implements, incense as well as live classical music in a centuries-old holy space? And then the officiating 'magician' would deliver his incantations in a droning blasé voice as if simply going through the motions… all very spectacular but missed opportunities nonetheless.

I went to a Catholic Mass in Venice, back in the 90's, and the atmosphere was absolutely electric. I felt I could have held my finger and thumb apart and a spark would have jumped between them

"The essence of Judaism is that you should love god and that you should fear god."

There's a bit in Evan Almighty where Morgan Freeman appears in the car beside Steve Carrel, who screams in terror. Morgan Freeman says: "Let it out, son; it's the beginning of wisdom."

I looked it up, and sure enough: Proverbs, 9-10: "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"

 

[Rivera Wilson]

Heya, bit of a rant.

I was raised pretty hardcore Pentecostal Christian.

Ive had pretty amazing encounters with the Spirit of Christ, but left the church anyway because of a lot of hypocrisy, money focus, and a straight lack of spirituality. It was whole lotta performance, ego feeding, inner circle, cliquey, poetry competition disguised as prayer imo. And a whole bunch of other junk I'd rather not even get started on.

Funnily enough, my Christ experiences were the strongest when i left the church.

But years later i end up in the occult and magick, as i believe a lota exoteric (religion, church) is just community building and emphasis on keeping the machine (church) alive. I felt the esoteric may be a better shot at alignment with Divine, hence why the shift.

Ive worked with Demons, Pagan Gods, and all sorts of spirits. But never really felt the immense grounding compared to Christ, so i recently reconnected with the Spirit of Christ.

Still gonna practice magick, still gonna stay away from Churchianity. But dang it seems my church background has given me A LOT of fuel for magickal correpondences. So why waste something i already got? Might as well create a magickal practice on correspondences already hardwired in my brain.

I mean I'm the kind of person that believes the church does practise magick, just doesnt say it does. I mean the reverence and sacred silence you can feel at crescendo point of a Eucharist in Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, is amazing!

Eh no real point to the story, but I'm jist curious how many of you used to be or still are christian and practice magick?

Is your magick different to your church practice? (ie Pagan Gods for magick, the Trinity for church).

Do you hide your magick from your church associates?

And other ponderings or interesting things you've picked up in your travels, from this unique path.

This is an incredibly relatable path, and it is fascinating how often an intense, hardcore religious upbringing serves as a profound foundation for later esoteric practice.