Metasigils, hypersigils, sigilization of sigils

[Khoren_]

Anyone have any reading on the list above? I have a few of my own methods (which I will gladly share), but am wondering what others' experience with them are.

 

[Jackson]

Just read the artist who died of STDs with a house full of cats. Was at least interesting.

 

[Khoren_]

Just read the artist who died of STDs with a house full of cats. Was at least interesting.

Like that's the title? "The Artist Who Died of STDs With A House Full of Cats"? Seems like a long title.

 

[Xenophon]

Just read the artist who died of STDs with a house full of cats. Was at least interesting.

A careless individual who dies in an unclean environment is worth reading up on? How droll, sirrah, how very droll.

In any case, @OP: can you briefly tell us why my sigils need steroids, as it were?

 

[Jackson]

Austin Osman Spare.

 

[Xenophon]

Austin Osman Spare.

My initial remarks stand. Spare enjoys some fame as a magician. His is not a character I admire. His art strikes me as the sort of thing twelve year old boys scrawl on restroom walls. A sniggering preoccupation with ornate ugliness. Still, I have to give him credit for kindness to stray cats.

 

[Jackson]

His is not a character I admire.

Whatever, I know little of his character.

 

[Khoren_]

can you briefly tell us why my sigils need steroids, as it were?

Wait, steroids?

I think I mentioned in another thread that you have to be specific in what you want when you cast, or else it will come with unintended side affects - something something Jinn are tricky. In my ideation, it's not about making them stronger, just more specific.

If I were to tell you to bake a loaf of bread, but only told you to use flour, yeast, and water, it would take a long time for you - without any outside interference or previous knowledge of bread making - to finally get the loaf that I was describing. But if I were to sit there and detail the method of bread making, from in what order to mix the ingredients, how long to let it proof, at what temperature, how to knead, and ultimately how to cook it, it would take a good deal shorter time for you to achieve the desired loaf.
The idea is the same. If I were to make a simple sigil - however you desire it - that asks for a thousand dollars, the results may occur, but not in the way you desire - if at all. But if I were to combine a series of sigils, each detailing specific motions for the flow to take, not only can the sigil become more efficient - provide results quicker/more specifically - but you can be more scientific with how the sigil itself will function.

If we are attempting more ahem abstract ideas, like the destruction of a certain facet of modern life, you can provide more specific attack methods, methods to defend against the recurrence, etc.

But what do I know

 

[Morell]

Anyone have any reading on the list above? I have a few of my own methods (which I will gladly share), but am wondering what others' experience with them are.

Megasygils and hypersigils? Sounds like extravagant nonsense to me.
Start "small" and study sigils, their making and activation. You can keep mastering sigils all your life if you are seriously interested and there will always be something more to learn.

 

[Xenophon]

Wait, steroids?

I think I mentioned in another thread that you have to be specific in what you want when you cast, or else it will come with unintended side affects - something something Jinn are tricky. In my ideation, it's not about making them stronger, just more specific.

If I were to tell you to bake a loaf of bread, but only told you to use flour, yeast, and water, it would take a long time for you - without any outside interference or previous knowledge of bread making - to finally get the loaf that I was describing. But if I were to sit there and detail the method of bread making, from in what order to mix the ingredients, how long to let it proof, at what temperature, how to knead, and ultimately how to cook it, it would take a good deal shorter time for you to achieve the desired loaf.
The idea is the same. If I were to make a simple sigil - however you desire it - that asks for a thousand dollars, the results may occur, but not in the way you desire - if at all. But if I were to combine a series of sigils, each detailing specific motions for the flow to take, not only can the sigil become more efficient - provide results quicker/more specifically - but you can be more scientific with how the sigil itself will function.

If we are attempting more ahem abstract ideas, like the destruction of a certain facet of modern life, you can provide more specific attack methods, methods to defend against the recurrence, etc.

But what do I know

OK, I see you meaning. I guess I didn't see the other thread. Thanks.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Wait, steroids?

I think I mentioned in another thread that you have to be specific in what you want when you cast, or else it will come with unintended side affects - something something Jinn are tricky. In my ideation, it's not about making them stronger, just more specific.

If I were to tell you to bake a loaf of bread, but only told you to use flour, yeast, and water, it would take a long time for you - without any outside interference or previous knowledge of bread making - to finally get the loaf that I was describing. But if I were to sit there and detail the method of bread making, from in what order to mix the ingredients, how long to let it proof, at what temperature, how to knead, and ultimately how to cook it, it would take a good deal shorter time for you to achieve the desired loaf.
The idea is the same. If I were to make a simple sigil - however you desire it - that asks for a thousand dollars, the results may occur, but not in the way you desire - if at all. But if I were to combine a series of sigils, each detailing specific motions for the flow to take, not only can the sigil become more efficient - provide results quicker/more specifically - but you can be more scientific with how the sigil itself will function.

If you specify an intent more closely, you cut down on the chance of it succeeding, if it can only succeed by following this path or that path. It's a fine line between underspecifying and ending up with a 'monkey's paw' type result (damn those Jinn), or overspecifying and risking failure because the path you specified either doesn't exist or isn't possible enough to succeed.

And a hypersigil (I think Grant Morrison coined the word) is more like creating an entire worldview that you would like to impose on reality. His comic book series 'The Invisibles' was supposed to form such a hypersigil.

 

[HoldAll]

There is Gordon White's "The Chaos Protocols" and Aidan Wachter's "Six Ways" (both in the Library) where they talk about 'sigil shoaling'.

I myself have tried something similiar (with GoM angels, not with sigils) I called a 'cascade', invoking six angels over a period of three days to tackle an extremely intractable problem from different angles. The idea was that the angels would work together and thus reinforce each other's impact, similar as to what's described in Adam Blackthorne' "Secret Angel Magick" and in his Unfreezing Ritual in Damon Brand "Stillness and Light". It was a bust though, maybe I should have used sigils instead of angels, they may not work together so harmoniously as I naively assumed.

Once I tried to write an 'alternative history' of my life before I even knew what a hypersigil was but didn't get very far, probably because I lacked the audacity and conviction at that time to implement that idea in a ritualistic way. Starting from the top and creating something like a 'master sigil' for a whole bevy of subordinate goals or something like a master narrative in the form of a hypersigil, a hierarchy of goals... the difficulty lies in the design, spotting the correct interrelations - hierarchical, loosely connected, sequential, etc.

 

[Khoren_]

There is Gordon White's "The Chaos Protocols" and Aidan Wachter's "Six Ways" (both in the Library) where they talk about 'sigil shoaling'.

I myself have tried something similiar (with GoM angels, not with sigils) I called a 'cascade', invoking six angels over a period of three days to tackle an extremely intractable problem from different angles. The idea was that the angels would work together and thus reinforce each other's impact, similar as to what's described in Adam Blackthorne' "Secret Angel Magick" and in his Unfreezing Ritual in Damon Brand "Stillness and Light". It was a bust though, maybe I should have used sigils instead of angels, they may not work together so harmoniously as I naively assumed.

Once I tried to write an 'alternative history' of my life before I even knew what a hypersigil was but didn't get very far, probably because I lacked the audacity and conviction at that time to implement that idea in a ritualistic way. Starting from the top and creating something like a 'master sigil' for a whole bevy of subordinate goals or something like a master narrative in the form of a hypersigil, a hierarchy of goals... the difficulty lies in the design, spotting the correct interrelations - hierarchical, loosely connected, sequential, etc.

Now this is closer to what I was talking about, some of y'all are very uncreative with your magic.
When you interconnect a series of sigils, either in time or space, you are able to perform phenomenal feats of magic.

Post automatically merged: Jul 16, 2024

If you specify an intent more closely, you cut down on the chance of it succeeding, if it can only succeed by following this path or that path. It's a fine line between underspecifying and ending up with a 'monkey's paw' type result (damn those Jinn), or overspecifying and risking failure because the path you specified either doesn't exist or isn't possible enough to succeed.

And a hypersigil (I think Grant Morrison coined the word) is more like creating an entire worldview that you would like to impose on reality. His comic book series 'The Invisibles' was supposed to form such a hypersigil.

I was fascinated by "alchemy" growing up, and by proxy, the Full Metal Alchemist series. Since a young age, I was determined to either learn the methods of drawing an alchemical circle. Upon discovering that the author didn't utilize any actual logic in the creation of said circles, I was determined to create a method to the madness.

I have since attempted to create something similar.

 

[pixel_fortune]

Re-sharing, still haven't done

I saw an idea that I really like, that I'm going to try next month hopefully

It's based on the and principle as the Gordon White, "you don't destroy the sigil, but you don't focus on it either, make it part of the background so you see it regularly without even really noticing you've seen it"

You take a single sheet of paper, and that's the piece of paper you draw all your sigils on, layering them over each other (probably in different colours), so they're all there, and you see them every time you make a new sigil but increasingly hard to separate out the details from each other, like archaeological strata.

You could use one paper per shoal, or one for literally all your sigils, but my plan is to use just two sheets of paper: one for everything involving growth and drawing things to me, and a different one for anything that I'm wanting to reduce or push away

I have a few of my own methods (which I will gladly share), but am wondering what others' experience with them are.

Share your methods!

 

[Khoren_]

Share your methods!

I do apologize for the delay, I have not forgotten, but given the nature of my last write up taking a multitude of hours, I wish to devote myself wholly to the explanation. If I do not give an adequate explanation within the end of the day after, please remind me.

 

[Xenophon]

Now this is closer to what I was talking about, some of y'all are very uncreative with your magic.
When you interconnect a series of sigils, either in time or space, you are able to perform phenomenal feats of magic.

Post automatically merged: Jul 16, 2024

I was fascinated by "alchemy" growing up, and by proxy, the Full Metal Alchemist series. Since a young age, I was determined to either learn the methods of drawing an alchemical circle. Upon discovering that the author didn't utilize any actual logic in the creation of said circles, I was determined to create a method to the madness.

I have since attempted to create something similar.

"...some of y'all are very uncreative with your magic." That's a bit harsh. The only question in magick is whether a working works. I am put in mind of my H.S. football coach Arvid "the Aardvark" Greer. He told us that our next game was a cinch. A bunch of slow farm boys who "run a 1920's style offense---three yards and a cloud of dust." They beat us 36-6. Why? Because they ran their no-brains offense very consistently and very well. Those who can do; those who can't, compare recipes and titter.

 

[pixel_fortune]

I do apologize for the delay, I have not forgotten, but given the nature of my last write up taking a multitude of hours, I wish to devote myself wholly to the explanation. If I do not give an adequate explanation within the end of the day after, please remind me.

I'm reminding you because you asked, but honestly if you ended up deciding spending several hours on a write-up isn't a good use of your time, you're probably right

 

[Khoren_]

I'm reminding you because you asked, but honestly if you ended up deciding spending several hours on a write-up isn't a good use of your time, you're probably right

I actually have been writing up a pretty decent essay on the process - at least attempting to break it down to understandable terms. It's slow going (I'm at 9 pages two weeks later) and I'm posting updates on my profile. I'm trying to be as concise as I can, but I feel like there are some apriors that I need to explain before I explain the main working itself (that could also simply be my perfectionism). Best case scenario, I make this into a published work for posterity. Worst Case Scenario, it's a pamphlet on sigils.

Post automatically merged: Jul 30, 2024

Okay, I need some help, I'm losing steam. I have the method written, let me know what you guys think?

The Method Proper

So after all that explanation, I can finally get to the work proper. The MetaSigiling, or Extended Sigil, is a method to adjectivise, goal-orient, and decipher your own intent into something that can be expanded, contracted, or even reversed. In many cases, sigils are used for very specific intentions, such as something as simple as seeing a woman in a red dress, while it takes something as evolved as a servitor to provide more intensive goals to be reached via magic. This is an attempt to bridge that gap, to provide a singularly focused sigil with specifications on reaction, without producing a proper servitor that will seek a higher purpose after a simple purpose is fulfilled.

There is a lot of literature on servitors that can be found, and the methods of creation, but that is beyond the scope of this work. In short, servitors are best used for ongoing, overly complex tasks, such as defense during astral projection, or finding occult knowledge in routine texts, whereas sigils are most effective for targeted, singular use, magics that can dissipate when complete. In many cases, I found myself needing something in between, something that can perform complex, single minded tasks, without performing cyclical feedback loops on their goals. The best way I have conceptualized this is through the ritualization of sigilization – which is where the explanation of a rite/ceremony came in. These can also act as shorthand for rituals that are used to supplement other rituals – in such cases you would otherwise require a group of people performing various tangential rites – or act as a method to provide your unconscious a blueprint to build specific astral constructs. This short hand follows, almost exactly, the type of “generic” ritual I spelled out in a previous section, with supplementary materials existing in concordance with the main intent.

Before completely undertaking this task, I suggest you gain at least a cursory knowledge of astrological processes, the houses, signs, and planets, as there is an adjacent working with this, and having that knowledge will benefit greatly in the sections subsequent.

The Sigils:​

First and foremost, you need to determine what the main intent, or purpose, of the sigilization will be. This is the crux of the work, and ultimately is the “end goal” of the whole work. This sets the stage of the rest of the sigils, and should be determined first. When determining this goal, it shouldn’t be so nebulous as to be unobtainable or indecipherable, but shouldn’t be so specific that any further adjustments to the sigil would be rendered meaningless. A bad example of this intent would be, like mentioned prior, the simple intent of “seeing a woman in a red dress”. While, yes, you can specify times, locations, and obstacles, this simple of an intent would be more hindered by specifications, and may ultimately falter when fully crafted. A better example of such a sigil would be an intent along the lines of “I Will Write A Book”. While this is a clear cut intent, and can work well enough on its own, it is a nebulous enough intent that it would benefit from more specificity. While, yes, you can write out a full paragraph of a sigil and then break it down that way, I find that less fun and ultimately easier to get wrong, especially given if given enough letters, your selection for sigilization (depending on the method) will be left to one or two letter, if any at all. This selection of primary intent is important, so make sure to leave it open ended enough to be specified, but also direct enough that the intent itself isn’t lost to misunderstanding.

After the primary sigil is created, you must determine how the sigil can be adapted towards your goals. In many cases, the broad primary sigil can be powered by various other “generation” sigils, or “adaptation” sigils. Think of these as the adjectives to your nouns. The Who, What, Where, When, and How. We will not determine the “why” as that is something that is driving the primary sigil in the first place. For the Sigil “I Will Write A Book”, you can determine what the subject of the book will be, how long it should take, or even what obstacles – such as a lack of focus or knowledge base – will stump this sigil from achieving its goal. In many non-magical circles, an idea known as the SMART goal making process exists – and can be ultimately repurposed for our goals. So for this sigil to adhere to these groupings, we will adjectify it through the specification of “The Book Will Be About Sigilization”, as well as “It will be complete in four weeks.” This will prepare the sigil to motivate the individual towards these goals, as well as specify the term over which the sigil will operate. In less concrete sigils, the “time-frame” can be less specific, or even non-existent. For a primary sigil of “I Will Be Given The Knowledge Of Astronomy”, a time-specific operation is not needed, unless you are specific in which knowledge you are seeking. A General sense of “knowledge” can be accumulated over the course of years, if not decades, and thus can be less specific in the time-frame given.

Now that we have the specific of the What and When, we can turn our gaze towards protection against the obstacles that may be faced during this time period. These protective sigils operate the same as any other, however are not seeking to prevent the obstacles from happening – obstacles will always find their way into your life – but rather to find the energy to overcome these obstacles. Much in the same way various martial artists will use redirection of their opponents energy against them, we are seeking to find re-purposing of negative sources of these obstacles to drive the primary sigil. Not only is this easier in the long run – and ultimately requires less energy for the sigil to operate – but it can also be a source of motivation for the sigil.

For the primary sigil which we are currently operating with, things such as writer’s block, focus, apathy, and general lack of time available, can be general obstacles to the sigil conducting its best work. But instead of creating sigils such as “I will not face writer’s block”, or “I will lack the apathy which will pull me from the task”, you are going to use more positive wording. Appropriate curtail sigils for these obstacles would be “I am enthusiastic about writing this book” or “The topic will be easily accessible to my conscious mind” or “There is time aplenty to work on this book”. As you may well notice, these are present affirmations of the obstacles’ inverses. Other alternatives could be “Distractions are not found easily” and “Support for this task surround me”.

Placing the Sigils:

Once we have determined the primary and supporting sigils28, we are ready to construct the metasigil. The Primary sigil will operate as your “central point”. For ease of understanding, I often place each of the sigils within a singular circle, denoting the flow of operations of the sigils, but a second outer ring may be placed on any sigil if you wish to include mantras for the focal point of each sigil.29 These mantras, like those placed around the sigilizations of the names of demons and angels, can either simply name the sigil, provide various symbols associated with the sigil, or simply be a phrase that the user intends to intone when the sigil is invoked. Once you have constructed each sigil circle, you are now ready to place them in relation to each other. The central sigil – as the name implies – will be placed as the central point for the metasigil itself.

In front of this central sigil will be the “protective sigils” for the central sigil. These will be the sigils you created that will help overcome the obstacles that face the sigil – things that will guide the sigil towards completion. The Hows and Whens or the M and T of SMART. These sigils will partially overlap the primary and will be arranged much in same way one reads an astrology table.

Alongside the central sigil will be the sigils that help support the primary sigil. These are the What, Who, and Wheres, or the S and R of the SMART. These sigils will accompany the primary sigil and will ultimately exist along the “same plane” as the primary sigil. When drawing them in a 2 dimensional state, I have often placed these sigil “within” the mantra circle, or at least adhered34 them to the primary circle that surrounds the primary sigil.

In some cases, depending on the accentuation of the sigils that you are informing, the secondary sigils may be placed in between the primary and secondary circles surrounding the primary sigil. In these cases, the sigils are either directly powering the primary sigil – much like a generator – or are secondary goals that exist alongside the primary sigil. For ease of clarity, this will currently be beyond the scope of this essay.

Once you have an idea as to the depth at which to place the sigils, the “direction” – or at least the degree – at which to place them is the next step. Much like astrological natal charts, the direction of the sigils act both as an aesthetic and a practical choice. In many cases, the direction the secondary sigils lie at can determine both the efficacy of the secondary sigils, and the operation which may occur on the central sigil. Like I attempted to explain in the alchemy section, a lot of this was devised because of my fascination with the alchemical codecies and practices, and thus reflects a general idea of how I interpret the metasigilization.

Ascendants, Houses, and Signs:

Simply put, you are basically building a “natal chart” for the metasigil itself, ultimately constructing the interface on which the sigils will interact with each other. Now, this will not nearly be as in depth as a proper natal chart, but will operate much in a similar fashion. The only distinction is that instead of finding out the minutes, hours, and days on which to perform the sigilizations, the two dimensional interpretation will exist alongside the 360 degree axis that a typical natal chart will be built upon.

This is where we’re going to get a little liberal with the terms and usages of the traditional Ascendant, as this will not be the “sign” that is on the horizon as you form this sigil, but rather you will be adjoining the “direction” of the sigil, the rotation of the sigils. Now this can be ultimately bypassed, as you can simply reorient the sigils in any direction on the 2 dimensional sign, but I’m including this to be more encompassing. When “directing” the sigil, you are looking for – much in the same way you would look for the associated Day and hour to line up the planetary influences – the associated sign and house that you are seeking to influence in the world. For example, if you’re attempting to create a metasigil of wealth, you’d place the Ascendant into the 10th house, or the associate Capricorn sign. However, if you’re looking to guide the sigil of wealth through your close relationships, you’re place it into the 11th house (associated with Aquarius) or the 3rd house (associated with Gemini), depending on which path you are attempting to direct the metasigil. Now, again, this is something that can be ultimately bypassed – as you’re going to eventually place each subsequent sigil in their own signs and houses – but can help the sigil be more accurate in the direction it will manifest.

After you have centered the primary sigil, and located the relationship of the secondary – and even tertiary sigils – to the primary sigil, we can now begin to place them around the outside of the primary. Much in the same way that I described how the planets interact with the various signs and houses to influence personalities and help predict future archetypes, the sigils placed around the primary sigil will interact with the primary sigil through a similar means. To be truthful, the metaphor of using the astrological houses and signs is a very loose one, and is only used as a means to explain the idea, so keep this in mind as I attempt to explain the systems at work here.

To place the sigils in the “right” location around the primary sigil takes each a touch of intuition, a touch of artistry, and a touch of mathematics. Given that each sigil interacts with the other in subtle, but manageable ways, you can direct each of the sigils towards this end by relating it to the primary sigil. Returning to the example posed in a previous section, the main sigil being “I will write a book” (hereby denoted as 1), and we had secondary sigils of “It will take four weeks” (hereby denoted as 2), “I am enthusiastic about writing this book” (hereby denoted as 3), “The topic will be easily accessible to my conscious mind” (hereby denoted as 4), and “There is time aplenty to work on this book” (hereby denoted as 5). Since there are many similarities between the representations between the signs and the houses – and there are different interpretations on how the interactions between the sigils can be performed – I am going to use an interpretation that makes the most sense for me and the way that I have aestheticized the process. I highly recommend planning where the sigils will go prior to the actual construction of the metasigil itself, as any mismarks or movements may distract from the proper metasigil’s direction. Often, I’ll plan a couple different interpretations of the metasigil before breaking out my compass and Metasigil journal to finalize the metasigil.

Since the secondary sigils 2 and 5 are associated with time, and creating a routine to provide for that time, I will place them in the 6th house. However, since they are both being placed into the 6th house, I have to adjust the positioning accordingly. Given that 5 is more associated with the primary sigil, and sigil 2 is yet another amendment to this sigil, I’m going to place 5 in the 6th house in relation to the primary sigil, and 2 in relation to the secondary sigil. As you can see in the associated figure, this looks like a chain of circles coming off of each other.35

Next, we will place the sigils 3 and 4, since they are both related to my attitude about the primary sigil. In this instance, they will be placed in different houses, and thus may remain unrelated to each other. For sigil 3, I will place it into the 4th house and place sigil 4 into the 9th house, as seen in the resulting figure.

Once you have finalized the locations of the sigils in relation to each other, I suggest taking your time to completely draw it out on the final placement of the metasigil. I keep my best ones in a journal to reference back to later, or to reuse if the metasigil is broad enough, but you can treat it as you would any other sigil. Burn it, give it to a friend, throw it away, whatever constitutes you “releasing it into the world.​

Feel free to critique. I legit have like three pages of foot notes and 6 pages of back info on top of this.

 

[pixel_fortune]

I actually have been writing up a pretty decent essay on the process - at least attempting to break it down to understandable terms. It's slow going (I'm at 9 pages two weeks later) and I'm posting updates on my profile. I'm trying to be as concise as I can, but I feel like there are some apriors that I need to explain before I explain the main working itself (that could also simply be my perfectionism). Best case scenario, I make this into a published work for posterity. Worst Case Scenario, it's a pamphlet on sigils.

Post automatically merged: Jul 30, 2024

Okay, I need some help, I'm losing steam. I have the method written, let me know what you guys think?




Feel free to critique. I legit have like three pages of foot notes and 6 pages of back info on top of this.

I like the bit about sigilising against potential obstacles - that's very in line with the psychological goal-setting method of "implementation intention"

So my interpretation is that you are creating multiple sigils towards a single goal, and then creating a natal chart where all those sigils are placed as though they were planets? (With like, the skill to write in Gemini and the discipline to write in Capricorn, or whatever)

Post automatically merged: Jul 31, 2024

I'm interested in the alchemy aspect you mentioned, if you wanted to post that section

 

[Khoren_]

I like the bit about sigilising against potential obstacles - that's very in line with the psychological goal-setting method of "implementation intention"

So my interpretation is that you are creating multiple sigils towards a single goal, and then creating a natal chart where all those sigils are placed as though they were planets? (With like, the skill to write in Gemini and the discipline to write in Capricorn, or whatever)

Post automatically merged: Jul 31, 2024

I'm interested in the alchemy aspect you mentioned, if you wanted to post that section

Yeah, basically. The idea is mostly just to provide a system to develop a cool looking circle that mimics the FMA "alchemical circles". Which, despite having studied chemistry as part of my schooling, and did research into alchemy, is about as far as it goes. I realized this after attempting to write that section.