Mind Vacancy - What does that entail?

[dema354]

For the next 5 minutes do not think about polar bears. Can you do it? Well now that I've instructed you to do so, unless you have absolutely atrocious memory such that you can't even remember the instructions, no. Some of you may recognize this as the White Bear phenomenon, that is the more you try to avoid thinking about a certain subject, the more you think about the subject instead. To put this another way, assuming that your ability to form and hold memories isn't defective you would either had thought about not thinking about polar bears or you would have to hold into memory the instruction about not thinking about polar bears. In any event you would not had been able to do this task of not thinking about polar bears for 5 minutes that is unless we were to add some leeway as to what it means to not think about polar bears.

Does a meta thought count as thinking about the subject in hand? Suppose during those 5 minutes you thought about not thinking about polar bears. Would that count as thinking about polar bears? Alternatively if a thought or its subject are not contemplated on, that is to say they are passively observed, does that count as thinking about it? For example, let's suppose hypothetically you came upon a polar bear roaming around. You don't need to actively think about what the hypothetical polar bear is doing, has done or is going to do. You can just passively observe it! (or them if you want to give the polar bear some personality) Does that passive observation, that innate awareness count as thinking about polar bears? Lastly, if you memorize or remember a subject, does the act of memorizing or remembering the subject count as thinking about the subject?

 

[HoldAll]

Yes, the old story about the Indian guru who advised his disciple not to think about a monkey. The disciple then became obsessed with not-thinking about a monkey when meditating, then overcame his simian obsession and ultimately reached enlightment, as such stories typically go.

I've found in my daily meditation practice that thoughts abstract concepts, philosophical musings or exotic fantasies (after all, I don't encounter polar bears often except in the zoo) are rarely the problem. It's more mundane worries, past experiences, memories or song fragments (the latter mainly when walking) that disturb my attempts at achieving a state of empty mind. It's those things I try to dispel (as gently as possible, of course!) whenever I sit down on my cushion; I think I'd have to develop a serious case of OCD first to start thinking about any monkeys or polar bears while meditating. However, I can imagine that obsessively attempting to not-think about a specific item could serve to focus one's scatterbrained mind (Culadasa tellingly calls it the 'monkey mind', so there) on a single thing, a bit like using a mantra as a meditation object, and later eliminate said object from my practice. Sit down, try it and see if it helps, once again the proof of the pudding is in the eating here.

Once you've achieved an empty mind for a few seconds and start to analyse it, you've lost it already, same as when you start to think, "Great, my mind is empty now!". I don't suppose I'll specifically think of any polar bears as soon as I sit down this evening, I'll have my figurative hands full subtracting all kinds of intrusive thoughts from my mind which are more relevant to my day-to-day life.

 

[dema354]

Once you've achieved an empty mind for a few seconds and start to analyse it, you've lost it already, same as when you start to think, "Great, my mind is empty now!". I don't suppose I'll specifically think of any polar bears as soon as I sit down this evening, I'll have my figurative hands full subtracting all kinds of intrusive thoughts from my mind which are more relevant to my day-to-day life.

Ah, so for you being self-aware counts as thinking however forming a memory does not. Interesting.

On a similar note, when we're asked to empty our minds I find it unlikely we are to take this to its most literal sense. If we were then not only would we have to eliminate conscious thoughts and passive observations which arise up just from being alive we would also have to eliminate all forms of unconscious brain activity. As a result of this you would asphyxiate and then die.

In all likelihoods I find that the concept of an empty mind is more likely referring specifically to brain activity which is conscious instead of both conscious and unconscious brain activity. Furthermore just passively observing and just being self aware or knowing isn't a credit against having an empty mind nor does forming a memory or remembering a subject or having desires.

 

[PinealisGlandia]

The mind that thinks is not the ego, because the ego observes the mind that thinks. Escape thought by identifying with the observer of thought, rather than the thought yourself. Cease to own the thought, there ceases to be a need to observe the thought for the thought to exist, recognize that you were always thoughtless to begin with and let the thoughts exist whether you observe them or not. Thoughts are like birds, they chatter whether you listen to them or not.

 

[HoldAll]

On a similar note, when we're asked to empty our minds I find it unlikely we are to take this to its most literal sense. If we were then not only would we have to eliminate conscious thoughts and passive observations which arise up just from being alive we would also have to eliminate all forms of unconscious brain activity. As a result of this you would asphyxiate and then die.

Of course it's not meant literally. What you aim for is mental silence, not flatlining. Your autonomic nervous system will continue to function when you meditate, that goes without saying, and you will remain conscious of your surroundings. Proprioception will remain intact, your sense organ will continue to relay inputs from your environment and yet - at least theoretically - won't stand in the way of you achieving an empty mind. What gets meditators usually derailed in pratice is their habitual mental running commentary on those external and internal data received, the unbidden ideas and memories, all kinds of sudden associations branching off from them, unwelcome notions about how things were or how they should be, in short, the usual three-ring circus in our heads which we are so proud of as reasonably intelligent people, calling it 'conceptual thinking', taking it for granted and never questioning it.

By the way, I had forgotten completely about any polar bears or monkeys yesterday when I sat down and they didn't put in any appearance while I meditated either, so I guess that animal OCD method is not for me.

 

[dema354]

The mind that thinks is not the ego, because the ego observes the mind that thinks. Escape thought by identifying with the observer of thought, rather than the thought yourself. Cease to own the thought, there ceases to be a need to observe the thought for the thought to exist, recognize that you were always thoughtless to begin with and let the thoughts exist whether you observe them or not. Thoughts are like birds, they chatter whether you listen to them or not.

Oh yeah. I completely forgot there's also the method of using the notion that just because there's conscious activity occurring in the brain, unless you personally identify with or are deeply invested in them, they don't count.

What gets meditators usually derailed in pratice is their habitual mental running commentary on those external and internal data received, the unbidden ideas and memories, all kinds of sudden associations branching off from them, unwelcome notions about how things were or how they should be, in short, the usual three-ring circus in our heads which we are so proud of as reasonably intelligent people, calling it 'conceptual thinking', taking it for granted and never questioning it.

By the way, I had forgotten completely about any polar bears or monkeys yesterday when I sat down and they didn't put in any appearance while I meditated either, so I guess that animal OCD method is not for me.

Hmm. So if I am understanding this correctly, to you certain properties are allowed for an empty mind.

1. Passively observing/being aware = empty mind
2. Recognizing that one is being self aware = empty mind
3. Recognizing that one is being self aware and then also pondering about it = not so empty mind
4. Recognizing that one is being self aware and then also pondering about it with feelings of regret, bitterness or doubt = definitely not an empty mind
5. Recognizing that one is being self aware, accepting it and then idly musing about it = maybe?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 5:52 PM

Oh yeah. I completely forgot there's also the method of using the notion that just because there's conscious activity occurring in the brain, unless you personally identify with or are deeply invested in them, they don't count.

Hmm. So if I am understanding this correctly, to you certain properties are allowed for an empty mind.

1. Passively observing/being aware = empty mind
2. Recognizing that one is being self aware = empty mind
3. Recognizing that one is being self aware and then also pondering about it = not so empty mind
4. Recognizing that one is being self aware and then also pondering about it with feelings of regret, bitterness or doubt = definitely not an empty mind
5. Recognizing that one is being self aware, accepting it and then idly musing about it = maybe?

Oh and before I forget there are also these 2;

6. Forming memories = empty mind
7. Recalling/remembering = not so empty mind

 

[HoldAll]

Oh yeah. I completely forgot there's also the method of using the notion that just because there's conscious activity occurring in the brain, unless you personally identify with or are deeply invested in them, they don't count.

Hmm. So if I am understanding this correctly, to you certain properties are allowed for an empty mind.

1. Passively observing/being aware = empty mind
2. Recognizing that one is being self aware = empty mind
3. Recognizing that one is being self aware and then also pondering about it = not so empty mind
4. Recognizing that one is being self aware and then also pondering about it with feelings of regret, bitterness or doubt = definitely not an empty mind
5. Recognizing that one is being self aware, accepting it and then idly musing about it = maybe?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 5:52 PM

Oh and before I forget there are also these 2;

6. Forming memories = empty mind
7. Recalling/remembering = not so empty mind

Only the first one counts as empty mind, in my understanding. There's a reason why zen practitioners speak of

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- there is no observer, there is no observed (#2), it's as if your mind had disappeared. The whole Western misconception about self-awareness starts with Descarte's "I think, therefore I am" (#3). No, you don't have to continually think to be self-aware - in fact, it gets in the way. #4 is the absolute worst because once more or less intense emotions (and I would add even positive ones) creep in, you can kiss your meditational equanimity goodbye; all that turmoil and brainfog is the usual befuddled state of mind we're constantly in, or so Buddhists say.

#5 contains a good way out of this mental morass in the form of acceptance. There is this Zen concept of Radical Acceptance where you unconditionally accept everything that may be or come up during meditation, the good, the bad, the ugly, the indifferent. This may not seem to be such an astounding piece of advice until you realize that it would also be nice to Radically Accept that you are sometimes unable to Radically Accept things as they are. It's really the best way to deal with intrusive thoughts during meditation, or rather, this concept is just a crutch until you automatically stop entering into disputes with noisy neighbours in your head or your itching nose and don't have to consciously deal with such disturbances anymore. "Meditation means ceasing to struggle", and whenever you find yourself unable to cease struggling, you're enjoined to Radically Accept that too, of course.

Incidentally, you don't even need polar bears or monkey to drive yourself around the bend in the beginning. You sit down, close your eyes and go "I mustn't think!" - "You just did" - "Yeah, but so did you!" - "But… aarrgh!".

Oh, and #6 and #7 don't count as empty mind either, I'm afraid. Memories are simply part of chatter you want to get rid off when meditating, and yes, it's possible to free oneself from spontaneous ideas or fancies cropping up seemingly involuntarily, and that includes images, sounds, or other sensory phenomena.

 

[dema354]

Oh, and #6 and #7 don't count as empty mind either, I'm afraid. Memories are simply part of chatter you want to get rid off when meditating, and yes, it's possible to free oneself from spontaneous ideas or fancies cropping up seemingly involuntarily, and that includes images, sounds, or other sensory phenomena.

If that is so, then forming an empty mind wouldn't be possible. Let's not forget that #6 and 7 are not the same thing. One of them is about forming memories while the other is about recalling them. As soon as you are exposed to any sort/form of information, you form a memory. Whether you intend to or not a memory has been formed. With intention we call that process memorization. In other words, if you consider the formation of memories to not be indicative of an empty mind then by simply being exposed to the words "polar bear" they are now part of your memories, however long or fleeting they may be, memories which you don't need to call up or have them appear in your mental awareness. To put this another way, your mind is never truly devoid of all memories and thus your mind can never be said to be truly empty. Whether these memories appear in your mental awareness is irrelevant.