Hi guest! As you can see, the new Wizard Forums has been revived, and we are glad to have you visiting our site! However, it would be really helpful, both to you and us, if you registered on our website! Registering allows you to see all posts, and make posts yourself, which would be great if you could share your knowledge and opinions with us! You could also make posts to ask questions!
What??! And not hang on every word as gospel? Or buy the t-shirt? Think of the publishing staff that have mortgages! What are you, a commie?
Joking aside, yeah, I really do try to be very measured in how I communicate. I try as best I can to separate what is my own baggage and bullshit from what I hope at least attempts to speak to some universals (viz Neoplatonic models, which are also optional) other people might find useful.
But I also never plan to be an occult author, or try to herd a following, so I have the luxury of admitting that sometimes I have no map that can be said to be accurate down to 6.66 micrometers for what EXACTLY is going on at all times.
This is why if I feel everyone should give them real-world objectives to accomplish. After enough of successes , all these pointless theological debates, and excessive WitchTok chit-chatting falls by the wayside as a waste of time. I usually say just pick as grim and take it as 80 to 90% face value, and try not to overthink it, or min-max simplify it by stripping out all the protocols. Try it out, and see what happens, course correct over time.
Yep yep. It's still not his main grim, but I agree with much I read there. Having had a couple of illnesses healed (one psychological, PTSD, and the other physical) as some of the very positive side effect of a successful Verum working to, * cough * 'remove-with-extreme-prejudice' an executive that was harassing my wife, from a famous, international, video game publisher - one where executives operate much as a (usually,ha! ) untouchable medieval burgomaster class - that very much tracks.
What I see that also tracks there is that inherent mystery, indeterminacy, and liminality of Verum interactions. Very confirming for my own experiences. Thanks, for that!
Post automatically merged:
Well, great googly-moogly. More John King. So much here is right on fucking point. At this point John King is the only other magician besides myself that I know of to refer to them as 'Lovecraftian.' Tons of here I am in complete agreement with.
Very much worth a listen, particularly the level intellectual humility that comes with the territory. Perhaps one of the first tests of the spirits is the magician's willingness to embrace a certain level of ontological ambiguity and leave some questions open. The are liminal beings. As the daimons once told a paranormal researcher, 'We want you to believe in us, but not too much.'
I love what he said about not doing that thing almost everyone in moden magic does, what I call 'projecting too much' into visions.
Not that i want everyone to think of the daimons as Lovecratian critters by default wither, swa a different preset character creator interface.)
One of the main reasons I do not like the presets of the demonolatry folks, its not their rituals per se, such as they are, it's this cookie-cutter preset results expectations, and cut-and-paste inner visions that the daimons are all suppsoed to be your cuddlly Pokemon buddies. It bothers me, I admit, and seems far too formulaic-in-predetermined-result, if whioe also less formulaic-in-ritual, compared to the Keys or the GV.
The Practical Occult Podcast:
E7 Special Guest: John R. King IV
Oct 15, 2025
Allison I know of. The co-host (name?) is a cradle Catholic and echos my own points the implications of living in Folk Catholic universe.
One of the things I love about the Faustian grimoire tradition is the magician would put their immortal soul on the line for true love, wisdom, and wealth. That 'fuck it, this must be so,' and willing to go a little crazy for it, hellz yeah! Hell is not for the timid.
Post automatically merged:
Dammit. OK, editing post facto.
----------------------
Not that I want everyone to think of the daimons as Lovecraftian critters by default eithe , swapping out one preset character creator interface for another set of presets.
One of the main reasons I do not like the presets of the demonolatry folks - it's not their rituals per se, such as they are - it's these cookie-cutter preset result expectations and cut-and-paste inner visions that the daimons are all supposed to be your cuddly Pokemon buddies. It bothers me, I admit, and seems far too formulaic-in-predetermined-result, while also a bit less formulaic-in-ritual, if only becasue they don't have any, compared to the Keys or the GV.
Tell them to do you and yours no harm in any way, nor anything about you, to leave your relationships alone, leave your job alone, etc. That they are to assist you in pleasant and healthful way in all things that are about you. (They were never human and have a hard time relating fully to all this squishy human fluff. You are need to tell they the whys and whats as it relates to you. Be your own advocate when at this level. Nobody else will. )
If you are using a pact-based system like the GV write in all down in a contract. Get them to sign it. Meaning a mark or signature will appear in you vision on the physical contact, or there will be some other indication. Abide by you side of the the agreements. I made the mistake very early on in my practice of treating it flippantly and the extreme things I experiences was a firm lesson then.
It is extremely important what you explain here. Thanks!!
Why other new practitioners and even perhaps old grimoire do not insist more on this critical issue? This rule is available only for GV or also for others grimoires such as Keys of Solomon?
Who needs New World traditions? The grimoires themselves are explicit that the spirits be exorcised and bound, either through the names of God or through the intercession of the Holy Guardian Angel. It's because Modernist ideas filter through spiritual movements as "Demons and angels are the saaaame," "bea- I mean - demons are our friiiiends" that people fail in the process of working with spirits.
Definitely no one needs them as far as understanding Solomonic magic goes. And in fact, many people who are in it would fare much better if they had the will to really work a manuscript. I only mentioned New World traditions in reference to one of JSK’s many attempts at legitimizing his neopaganism: using these traditions to draw imagined similarities between them and it.
But to perhaps bring us back on track, not all New World traditions (be more correct to say the people in them because these traditions don’t exist canonically) have leveraged Solomonic magic wisely, in my opinion. Tossing names found in manuscripts along your other spirits, which is what most of them do, doesn’t make an evocation happen. Neither does that necessarily translate to working with them effectively, or at least in any way similar to performing an evocation.
Yep, yep. These constraints were implicit in the cosmological view the grimoires were written in. I was suggesting - if many are having excessive life turmoil from working the GV in a neopaganized framework, as this recent class suggests - to make the constraints more explicit. Our Faustian cousin tradition (although I dislike the term) is by far one of the most 'spirit-hostile' and became downright lawyerly with their pacts. The Black Raven is also called 'The Threefold Coercion of Hell.' Judging from the translation from German from Enodia Press, it is ALL constraints. I have to add here that the GV, as written, is also not necessarily 100% 'spirit-friendly' (ugh!) by comparison.
Like I said, I like Jake, but feel he let them run around too much. He blew past what could be trauma as 'burnt fingers,' which I agree is probably a good learning experience, if only to be motivated to not let it happen again. I got my couple of deep scars from my early work in the 1990s, but I figure we should speak up about what has worked to avoid more of any downsides.
Post automatically merged:
This. Alexander Moore, whom I just learned of yesterday, is a Catholic grimoire magician. I'm very much in agreement with him the grimoires operate from within a Catholic universe.
He's one half of Practical Occult, so he has a mercantilist motivation - but I will say talking about Catholic magic to an English-speaking audience is like selling spicy squid sandwiches at a 7-Eleven in Aspen, Colorado. That's a tough sell. So odds are he is just speaking honestly from what he loves, and I recognize the ring of truth there.
Catholicism: A System of Magick (with Arden Leigh, Alexander Moore, Jo’el Adifon, and Celeste Mott)
To help make the leap into this universe from a dead scientific atheist one, or a half-baked (and maybe partially collapsing) neopagan one, or a weaksauce Protestant one - just to be an equal opportunity hater here for a sec - I recommend Dr. Michael S. Heiser’s The Unseen Realm: Discovering the Supernatural World of the Bible to get a sense of how truly weird and wonderful, in all the best ways, the Catholic universe is.
------------------------------------------ Intro
The blerb from their website, which has a webstore, so no linking here:
In this video, Alexander Moore of Practical Occult joins a panel on Catholic Magic hosted by Arden Leigh. The video description by Arden:
Join me as I welcome to the channel Alexander Moore, Jo’el Adifon, and Celeste Mott – all practicing Catholics and magicians. You might not think that magick and the Catholic Church go well together, but the two have a deeply intertwined history, and many elements of Catholicism function as means of operative sorcery. Here, we’ll discuss some of the kinds of magick we’ve done with psalms, saints, angels, rosaries, and the like – as well as some ideas for how the magick of Catholicism can be used to fight the very kinds of oppression associated with contemporary Christianity.
Post automatically merged:
Quick note: Speaking to something Moore said above also speaks a bit to what I've observed and why while I'm a 'grimoire fundamentalist' I am not a 'grimoire purist' (I've never slaughtered a goat to get the skin for the First Character. I know, I know. So lazy.).
Many magicians have noticed that the specific ritual you use will shape the type of manifestation you get. Or in another view, the specific kind of individual of a class of spirit. In a pragmatic sense, Moore is taking the - let's call it - the 'Vodou' view here of completely separate individuals rather than aspects of the same being.
Moore speak to this a little, and I have noticed simialr dynamics in my work, as have other magicians. The Catholic St. Michael - at least when using the prayers (nee 'conjurations') for use in the home - is very different from the Jewish manifestation from when using in more Jewish rites such as the Sword of Moses - an Hebrew grimoire dated roughly to the 4th–10th century.
The Santeria folks speak in terms of how a spirit has caminos or paths, which they see as a particular character of manifestation of the same spirit. What Santeria would treat as different manifestations of a single intelligence, Vodou treats and interacts with as totally distinct and separate spirits. Feray is not 'Ogou Sen Jak' who comes from Africa. And to make it more complex to talk about, here is another layer here so you can get them riled up even more for agressive magic.
Again, I don't think it matters that much, except for more theological interpretations and miscommunications, but may indicate a baked-in worldview. All good if it works for you. .I will say the 'Catholic modulation' of Michael, when said with all the nice prayers and chaplets, is a much cooler and cozier Michael than the 'solar war god' Michael. This is experiential ritual phenomenon with different interpretive lenses applied after the fact, but often leads to difficulty speaking 'across the isle.'
- I recommend Dr. Michael S. Heiser’s The Unseen Realm: Discovering the Supernatural World of the Bible to get a sense of how truly weird and wonderful, in all the best ways, the Catholic universe is.