Modern conveniences and alchemy

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Starting with my favorite, coffee, I see from a standard Mr Coffee four alchemy stages:
1. Separation
2. Distillation
3. Sunken Kings (used grounds)
4. Elixir, ready to drink coffee.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: General Occult Discussion • The Science of Real Magic
✪ SUBTOPIC: Characteristics of a Supernatural Entity
※→ et al,


INTRODUCTION:

Yes, you might be confused.

Starting with my favorite, coffee, I see from a standard Mr Coffee four alchemy stages:
1. Separation
2. Distillation
3. Sunken Kings (used grounds)
4. Elixir, ready to drink coffee.

(COMMENT)

When you are using a "Mr Coffee" - the process you are using is NOT an Alchemical process. The process does not change the construct of a fundamental material element on the Periodic Table into a different chemical element. Pb (Lead) → Au (Gold)

Some of the Abrahamic Religious Rituals involve the Supernational Transmutation from one element to another; --- while the materialization and dematerialization of physical matter is a nucleosynthesis process.

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Most Respectfully,
R

 

[stalkinghyena]

Elixir Caprae is "the Devil's work":

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[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Interesting points Rocco, SH, will look up your link in a minute.
So modern appliances simply change the form and not the element itself, while alchemy does in fact change the elements.
I guess a question would be though, can we still see alchemical stage of operation occurring, even if it is not changing the elements themselves?

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Okay, so I see the point. Are there any modern conveniences that do change a state or an element into another?
Thats why I thought a coffee maker, because ti changes the state, a solid to a liquid; however the element does not exist really, nor gets changed.
Now oils manufacturing, again, we change the state from oil and herb into a concentrated oil.
An Air Fryer likewise changes the state, as does your standard grill.
Table saws dont really do much. Computers as well. Though electricity does undergo changes.

So is there an alchemical operation that occurs through modern technology?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: General Occult Discussion • The Science of Real Magic
✪ SUBTOPIC: Characteristics of a Supernatural Entity
※→ Diluculo_DelFue, et al,

---

Short Answer: Yes! (and NO).

Technically speaking, before there were "chemists," there were "alchemists." Alchemists believed that the combination of Chemistry and Magic wood held new element of benefit.

So is there an alchemical operation that occurs through modern technology?

(COMMENT)

Well, there are these manufactured elements called synthetic elements with life spans in milliseconds.

To be honest, I know next to nothing about chemistry. It is all magic to me. I would show you the list of these as they place on the Periodic Table. These placed on the table with the Atomic Number of 95 to 118.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[stalkinghyena]

So is there an alchemical operation that occurs through modern technology?

I like to think of things like CERN as peering into the depth of the Universe in the spirit of Alchemy as it has developed as a spiritual science of seeking the deepest wisdom.

But I was going to say that if you have a kitchen you can pretty much do spagyrics with herbs with the tech you have. I had a book by Mark Stavish that presented some real simple starter operations which I tried, but didn't really have time for. I wanted to make a "Mandrake stone" and put it into a statue. My own idea, not covered in the book.

 

[Yazata]

Very long ago I read an article somewhere about the lead in nuclear plants being gradually turned to (heavily radio active) gold. I have searched for that article or any reference to it a couple of times but never found it again. Maybe i dreamt it.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Very long ago I read an article somewhere about the lead in nuclear plants being gradually turned to (heavily radio active) gold. I have searched for that article or any reference to it a couple of times but never found it again. Maybe i dreamt it.

Was it something like this?

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I actually heard about that on a documentary comparing chemistry to alchemy. Not very cost effective in either discipline, apparently.

 

[Yazata]

Was it something like this?

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I actually heard about that on a documentary comparing chemistry to alchemy. Not very cost effective in either discipline, apparently.

Thank you. Will read it later today

 

[stalkinghyena]

NP Yazata! I know it's not precisely what you were talking about but I think it presents a kind of continuity.
I recall how Agrippa claimed he had seen gold being made, but it took the same amount of gold to do it. IMO I think he was actually making a subtle joke out of a popular claim of a Sacred Art that was obsessing a lot of people up to Popes and Kings.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

What about elements other than Lead and Gold however? I recall reading in the Golden Dawn introduction where Regardie mentioned two types of silicate that turn water into wine and wine into water. Which supposedly occurs during the initiation rituals.

 

[stalkinghyena]

What about elements other than Lead and Gold however? I recall reading in the Golden Dawn introduction where Regardie mentioned two types of silicate that turn water into wine and wine into water. Which supposedly occurs during the initiation rituals.

From the alchemical perspective anything can be transmuted, and they tried. The most important thing to understand about their processes is not so much the materials involved as it is the basic principle of "Solve et Coagula". Ultimately, whatever the operator is trying to change, they must first separate the spiritual essence from the base matter which imprisons it. This can range from simple to extremely complex workings that take years and can potential kill the operator (like in cases of mercury poisoning or lab explosions). This can also involve resorting to magic (or be an aspect of magic, as in the GD.) Both the spiritual essence and the base matter have to be separately purified and then recombined into a new thing that has divine power, such as "The Stone" or "Elixir". Transmuting metals and other substances is just one possibility, but not the the be all end of the Great Work in this form. At around the time of the 17th century the physical aspects of alchemy started to split away from the spiritual aspects, and so chemistry became materialistic and alchemy became more about self transformation over time.

But one can always merge these two again in the spirit of the original process. So your Mr. Coffee, when approached the right attitude, could theoretically become a "Tool of Art".

Also, there is a lot of symbolism involved that is enigmatic. The wine transformation you cite seems to present a Christ analogy (and also transubstantiation), something which is often heavily and deeply embedded in the imagery used by alchemists. Death and Resurrection in the name of seeking Wisdom in perpetual cycles is really what it is all about.

 

[8Lou1]

I see you guys are trying to deconstruct the qoffie. I just think its funny the best qoffie comes from the ass of an animal.

Change the animal is like pouring a cup of tea in chrodinger's box and never knowing the cat drowned or drunk itself to death..

 

[Vandheer]

I just think its funny the best qoffie comes from the ass of an animal.

Thanks Lou, I don't need coffee to stay awake after reading this

 

[8Lou1]

I already knew you didnt

 

[RoccoR]

RE: General Occult Discussion • The Science of Real Magic
✪ SUBTOPIC: Transmutation and the Tools of the Art
※→ @Diluculo_DelFue, stalkinghyene, et al,

What about elements other than Lead and Gold however? I recall reading in the Golden Dawn introduction where Regardie mentioned two types of silicate that turn water into wine and wine into water. Which supposedly occurs during the initiation rituals.

...a "Tool of Art".

Also, there is a lot of symbolism involved that is enigmatic. The wine transformation you cite seems to present a Christ analogy (and also transubstantiation), something which is often heavily and deeply embedded in the imagery used by alchemists. Death and Resurrection in the name of seeking Wisdom in perpetual cycles is really what it is all about.

(COMMENT)

In the mid-1980s, I was assigned to the Allied Command (Counterintelligence), and while on (leave) Malta, I happen to help the wife of a Nobel Family. And while in the Smoking Room after a short dinner, and totally a surprise to me, the local Marquis was handing out some Awards and Decorations to a few select members of the 3d Order • Knights of Malta. There were two new Chevale, one new Chevalier, and out of the blue, the Adjudant to the Marquis called out my name. The Marquis presented the "Honorary" Title and Order of Merit as a Squire, a very small Gold Ring (which means I get to stand next to the horse of a Knight)(one step above a surf). Now, after the ceremonies, the Marquis disappears, and there were these gaggles in which, in a congratulatory way that what is special about the right is that it was forged using the Gold of the Philosopher's Stone.

So, whether or not the Philosopher's Stone is actually real, or was once real, at least until the mid-1980s, there are still small chunks of Gold that were used to make small rings and insets to royal crowns.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[stalkinghyena]

Change the animal is like pouring a cup of tea in chrodinger's box and never knowing the cat drowned or drunk itself to death..

Okay so the operation would involve combining this:

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with this:

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Now where's the cat?
Here kitty, kitty...

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Okay so the operation would involve combining this:

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with this:

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Now where's the cat?
Here kitty, kitty...

I need both of those, thank you

 

[8Lou1]

You think, but no. I decided not to murder my connections this round and my version of that connection is at real war with real people and real death. I like wf to stay, not taken down, silly. But you guys might.