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I seem to be dealing with an invasion of narcissism ... I mean an 'outside invasion' , of a suspected 'clinical narcissist ' . Its an interesting subject matter . I have been finding the necessity to research lately .
Hmmm ... better make sure about me . I did a variety of on- line psych checks ( yeah I know ... they are little more than a game ) . Seems all good .
But what an intersting history ... I need to go back to some original stuff . I will reread Ovid metamorphosis for the myth and go on from there ?
is anyone familiar with that myth ?
The slog onwards .... there may be more entries related to that . One thing is that some reoate it to the 'magician type' personality ... I can see that , except in the magical tradition where a magician is supposed to be working on developing and balancing themselves , including psychologically ( eg Israel Regardie ; as well as an accomplished magician he was a ..... '' a chiropractor and a lay therapist (psychologist) with training in Jungian and Wilhelm Reichian techniques. While he taught psychiatry at a chiropractic college and used psychological methods in his practice, he was not a medical doctor.''
Not sure what you're at exactly but balance is always key. I don't deal with narcissist ideations but I do deal with my own problems that do require medications at times to balance myself out so I do not get out of 'whack'. For some, it's easier said than done. For others like myself it may even take more work than just that because it involves letting go of things that do help but also hinder you so you may have to find out more options to getting stable. Assuming you are into magick, you don't want to jump into magick all Willy-Nilly, you want to be level headed and precise. I assume whatever is bothering you has hit a core inside of your well being, otherwise you wouldn't be looking here. I would suggest looking to a doctor with your concerns. I feel that Psychology & Magick go hand in hand.
I'd say the mere fact that you're asking yourself whether you might be a narcissist yourself means that you aren't one. Narcissist wouldn't question themselves in such a way unless they're trying to look cute and insightful, and your post doesn't feel like that in the least.
Am I getting mad at something or someone because my outrage is justified or because of my own hangups, complexes, emotional biases, etc.? Is that person unwittingly pushing my buttons? I think this is why Regardie recommended psychotherapy for fledgeling magicians, and it's also the reason behind Bardon's Soul Mirror or the Ancient Greek Gnothi seauton! ("Know thyself!"). Religions tend to encourage remorseless self-codemnation for perceived sinfulness but I've found that dispassionate introspection is the best way, observing oneself without judging or because any self-flagellation would only feed my personal penchant for needless drama. This advice also pertains to characterstics you approve of and find beneficial, so it's helpful to create a comprehensive personality catalogue (viz. Soul Mirror) instead of focussing exclusively on one's weaknesses. In that way, you'll be able to establish your own personality baseline, so to speak, and become better at deciding whether your intuition is correct in a certain instance or if it's tainted by the peculiarities of your own psychological makeup and thus skewed.
Again, nothing is gained by guilt-tripping over one's flaws and being one's own worst critic. If you've identified some narcissist tendencies inside you after all, observe in which situations they tend to come to the fore, how they help or hinder you, how people react to them, etc. I'm a compulsive journaller but have now discovered that verbal analysis doesn't get me any forrader, so my own personal motto for introspection is "What is really there?", observing myself without discursive thinking and only jotting down a couple of sentences here and there instead of filling page after rambling page with vainglorious descriptions of my insights when not attacking myself for perceived flaws and weaknesses. Sounds cool in theory but may well be just another example of my own self-centredness .
If true narcissists could be bothered to engage in introspection, they'd only find wonderful stuff deep down themselves that would only make them feel more unique and admirable but unless you're a saint, it's pretty mucky down there. Strangely enough, that muck may also be the source of much of my power. I notice that during randori, there seems to be some unwarranted desperation, possibly from childhood imprints, that makes me tense and over-aggressive. However, such muck-raking in the unconscious easily leads to more self-centredness in my case, so I try not to think of it as all-important for my spiritual growth. It's been an adventure so far.
Dark Triad and Persistent Predatory Personalities (PPPs) are the fly in most ointments. Without going into the clinical information to break it all down, the simplest way to think of narcissists is 'they hate you.' Really, they hate you.
Do you hate everyone around you? Do you feel they are fundamentally flawed and inferior somehow? If not, then you might just be having a little bit of ego inflation.
Yep yep, Regardie wrote about it and I feel it’s a good rule of thumb. There is a massive functional difference between someone navigating temporary ego inflation and narcissism. Jung called it becoming a mana personality - if I recall. The "archetypes" are bigger than our personalities and can take them over.
We have to come back and integrate back in society- or you just get more wacked out occultists. Sadly WitchTok and Internet Occulture encourages a severe lack of re-integration by fostering a sense of magical -mystical specialness, and that everyone else is some sort of muggle, troglodyte, "Abrahamist," or just "stupid."
Myths are plutonium. Happens to us all in occasionally in the mythic depth charge land - but it is not the predatory, systemic lack of empathy found in the Dark Triad.
Dark Triad and Persistent Predatory Personalities (PPPs) are the fly in most ointments. Without going into the clinical information to break it all down, the simplest way to think of narcissists is 'they hate you.' Really, they hate you.
Do you hate everyone around you? Do you feel they are fundamentally flawed and inferior somehow? If not, then you might just be having a little bit of ego inflation.
Yep yep, Regardie wrote about it and I feel it’s a good rule of thumb. There is a massive functional difference between someone navigating temporary ego inflation and narcissism. Jung called it becoming a mana personality - if I recall. The "archetypes" are bigger than our personalities and can take them over.
We have to come back and integrate back in society- or you just get more wacked out occultists. Sadly WitchTok and Internet Occulture encourages a severe lack of re-integration by fostering a sense of magical -mystical specialness, and that everyone else is some sort of muggle, troglodyte, "Abrahamist," or just "stupid."
Myths are plutonium. Happens to us all in occasionally in the mythic depth charge land - but it is not the predatory, systemic lack of empathy found in the Dark Triad.
Not all who wander are lost, aye? To me, integration into consensus reality is not an option. I am not neurologically wired to receive its grounding, so I experience it as hostile territory and have mythologized it to such an extent that I would rather deal with a demon than a plumber, because with the demon I at least know where I am at. But, of course, I have dual-citizenship, so I laugh at the muggles instead of scream. If that makes me a narcissist, then so be it. Consensus reality doesn’t ground me; it disorients me completely, so I try my best to navigate both terrains without collapsing into either by staying connected to what actually gives meaning to my life, and that is magick, the beginning and middle and end of my my reason for getting up in the morning. It is my spiritual life. In whole and in part. So step lightly. Projection-inversion cuts deep. I've had a whole lifetime of being erased and made wrong and gaslighted for not fitting into someone else's fucking frame because I was not WitchTok enough to pass for a normy.
Ha! You're on the friend's and family plan, Lucien. Everybody gets the benefit of the doubt. Carry on!
Hmmm, point. All just rules of thumb, as I see it. I also think we are supposed to go out of balance every once in a while, to find a new dynamic center of Self. Per Ian McGhilcrist I think the ego inflation happen when we set it aside this journey we are one as a "thing" - a noun and not a verb - and our left-hemisphere grabs hold of it, and uses it to construct a shabby overcoat for our sense of self.
I'm very weird myself - artist, writer, game designer type personality - but I was thinking about something else other than intellectualized consensus reality - and all the bad ideas that usually accompany it- but more the grounded, embodied experiences of shared humanness...- breathing in the air, taking care of family and pets, having a good beer and/or a cigarette, shared meals, doing my best to really listen, paying attention, gardening, hanging out with non-magical normie friends, and just taking it all in without projecting too much of my own inner mythic overlay.
Like, sometimes, I will treat the morning just as a beautiful sunrise, and enjoy the colors and birdsong, and not a manifestation of the Solar Demiurge - but even then, I find myself singing His praises, because I'm weird.
And what you said: breathing in the air, taking care of family and pets, having a good beer and/or a cigarette, shared meals, doing my best to really listen, paying attention, gardening, hanging out with non-magical normie friends, and just taking it all in without projecting too much of my own inner mythic overlay...to treat the morning just as a beautiful sunrise, and enjoy the colors and birdsong, and not a manifestation of the Solar Demiurge - but even then, I find myself singing His praises.
Exactly. The ecology of the Real, and the Demiurge in the crypt of Saint Peter's with his treasure house of images.
If I had to define it--narcissism--I would say it is the cultural myth of our age in so far as it locks us into a hypersubjectivity that splits the Image from the Real. In other words, it is a failure of ecological thinking. Everything gets turned into an object. We lose the Other.
Not sure what you're at exactly but balance is always key. I don't deal with narcissist ideations but I do deal with my own problems that do require medications at times to balance myself out so I do not get out of 'whack'. For some, it's easier said than done. For others like myself it may even take more work than just that because it involves letting go of things that do help but also hinder you so you may have to find out more options to getting stable. Assuming you are into magick, you don't want to jump into magick all Willy-Nilly, you want to be level headed and precise. I assume whatever is bothering you has hit a core inside of your well being, otherwise you wouldn't be looking here. I would suggest looking to a doctor with your concerns. I feel that Psychology & Magick go hand in hand.
I am dealing with another person that seems to have this . Its an ongoing problem and they have caused pain suffering and anger in their community .
Its not me that has it ... I said that ... I even said I did a check in . I cant go to a doctor about 'someone else' . am not 'looking here ' . I am asking if any intelligent person , that hopefully has experience with magic as well ( I ask this as I have been practising for over 40 years ) has had encounters with this type .... I have studied some psychology on it , its a complex subject .
I'd say the mere fact that you're asking yourself whether you might be a narcissist yourself means that you aren't one. Narcissist wouldn't question themselves in such a way unless they're trying to look cute and insightful, and your post doesn't feel like that in the least.
Am I getting mad at something or someone because my outrage is justified or because of my own hangups, complexes, emotional biases, etc.? Is that person unwittingly pushing my buttons? I think this is why Regardie recommended psychotherapy for fledgeling magicians, and it's also the reason behind Bardon's Soul Mirror or the Ancient Greek Gnothi seauton! ("Know thyself!"). Religions tend to encourage remorseless self-codemnation for perceived sinfulness but I've found that dispassionate introspection is the best way, observing oneself without judging or because any self-flagellation would only feed my personal penchant for needless drama. This advice also pertains to characterstics you approve of and find beneficial, so it's helpful to create a comprehensive personality catalogue (viz. Soul Mirror) instead of focussing exclusively on one's weaknesses. In that way, you'll be able to establish your own personality baseline, so to speak, and become better at deciding whether your intuition is correct in a certain instance or if it's tainted by the peculiarities of your own psychological makeup and thus skewed.
Again, nothing is gained by guilt-tripping over one's flaws and being one's own worst critic. If you've identified some narcissist tendencies inside you after all, observe in which situations they tend to come to the fore, how they help or hinder you, how people react to them, etc. I'm a compulsive journaller but have now discovered that verbal analysis doesn't get me any forrader, so my own personal motto for introspection is "What is really there?", observing myself without discursive thinking and only jotting down a couple of sentences here and there instead of filling page after rambling page with vainglorious descriptions of my insights when not attacking myself for perceived flaws and weaknesses. Sounds cool in theory but may well be just another example of my own self-centredness .
If true narcissists could be bothered to engage in introspection, they'd only find wonderful stuff deep down themselves that would only make them feel more unique and admirable but unless you're a saint, it's pretty mucky down there. Strangely enough, that muck may also be the source of much of my power. I notice that during randori, there seems to be some unwarranted desperation, possibly from childhood imprints, that makes me tense and over-aggressive. However, such muck-raking in the unconscious easily leads to more self-centredness in my case, so I try not to think of it as all-important for my spiritual growth. It's been an adventure so far.
OH no ... this guy does introspection all the time and works on himself and does 'new age therapy' and 'examines his past ' life and ..... and any invalid excuse he cam find . And of course it is everyone elses problem .
One example of a narcissist ; it got so bad there was a confrontation and a meeting was held ; 17 people, everyone at the meeting friends relatives community members neighbors all in unison told him there was an issue with him and he had problems to look at . Denial , a claim that every person was in unison - wrong , and he was the only person that was right ( about himself , then blathered on a about a conspiracy of them all against him and a delusional outburst of claiming all sorts of things about himself and others .... as I said its complex and full of sub types . He seems on the 'paranoid narcissus ' branch .
Of course, he is stand over merchant and has a record of domestic abuse . Twice I have defended women from him . With me he tries all sorts of things ..... but basically being a coward and used to picking on people weaker than him ... he is both scared and hates me as he knows my martial arts background . Also these types use vulnerable people as shield s, that makes it difficult .
I have had magical battle with him ... but he is a mixed up untrained amateur ; he was working on his car , cutting rust out with a grinding wheel ( no eye protection ! ) and started abusing me about some issue as I passed . It resulted in him yelling at me I could not see what was going on , I said it was him that could not see it . Him - you are blind . Me - YOU are blind . I leave . I pass by later and car is there , tools spread around , him gone . Where is he ? '' Went to hospital, he got metal in his eye . '' nExt day he is back doing same with a big pad taped over his eye ; '' I suppose you think you are smart and going to say this happened because of yesterday, well, it didnt and my eye will be better in two days .. and you are still a ( and again, no eye protection ! ). I pass by a again, the same , him gone , where ? Hospital, got metal in his other eye !
I will grant him some validity though ... at one stage he said ''I am going to stop picking on you ... it seems to come back and get me ! ''
So I personally can well deal with him , its that he has got worse in some ways lately and its only recently that someone put me onto the narcissist thing ... I heard it before but I had not examined the psychology behind it ... so now I see him in a different way , other than a narcissist being an 'insult' ... It's a condition !
Dark Triad and Persistent Predatory Personalities (PPPs) are the fly in most ointments. Without going into the clinical information to break it all down, the simplest way to think of narcissists is 'they hate you.' Really, they hate you.
Do you hate everyone around you? Do you feel they are fundamentally flawed and inferior somehow? If not, then you might just be having a little bit of ego inflation.
Me ? I find it even hard to comprehend hate of anything ! Of course I think people are fundamentally flawed ... I'm a historian ! ' Inferior ' ? - thats a loaded word .... I would say not . Actually yesterday I was in a conference supporting an indigenous council who have been treated very much like THEY are supposed to be inferior in some way . I give them my full support , the way they have been treated is disqusting !
If I DO NOT feel that way ... I might have ego inflation ? Ehhhh ?
I KNOW I have ego inflation ! I joke about that all the time .
Yep yep, Regardie wrote about it and I feel it’s a good rule of thumb. There is a massive functional difference between someone navigating temporary ego inflation and narcissism. Jung called it becoming a mana personality - if I recall. The "archetypes" are bigger than our personalities and can take them over.
We have to come back and integrate back in society- or you just get more wacked out occultists. Sadly WitchTok and Internet Occulture encourages a severe lack of re-integration by fostering a sense of magical -mystical specialness, and that everyone else is some sort of muggle, troglodyte, "Abrahamist," or just "stupid."
A reminder that is not about me ..... but regarding the above - I have an interesting most about 'Magic and Madness ' that got many interesting responses ( elsewhere ) and looked at some psychological issues and problems well known magicians had
Myths are plutonium. Happens to us all in occasionally in the mythic depth charge land - but it is not the predatory, systemic lack of empathy found in the Dark Triad.
Ha! You're on the friend's and family plan, Lucien. Everybody gets the benefit of the doubt. Carry on!
Hmmm, point. All just rules of thumb, as I see it. I also think we are supposed to go out of balance every once in a while, to find a new dynamic center of Self. Per Ian McGhilcrist I think the ego inflation happen when we set it aside this journey we are one as a "thing" - a noun and not a verb - and our left-hemisphere grabs hold of it, and uses it to construct a shabby overcoat for our sense of self.
I'm very weird myself - artist, writer, game designer type personality - but I was thinking about something else other than intellectualized consensus reality - and all the bad ideas that usually accompany it- but more the grounded, embodied experiences of shared humanness...- breathing in the air, taking care of family and pets, having a good beer and/or a cigarette, shared meals, doing my best to really listen, paying attention, gardening, hanging out with non-magical normie friends, and just taking it all in without projecting too much of my own inner mythic overlay.
Like, sometimes, I will treat the morning just as a beautiful sunrise, and enjoy the colors and birdsong, and not a manifestation of the Solar Demiurge - but even then, I find myself singing His praises, because I'm weird.
Alright here's what I think about narcissism. I think the term narcissism is conflated with abuser. This might have been made for a purpose though because once pyschology became mainstream something had to be a scapegoat.
If people started to actually realize what being an abuser was then more autonomy to people.
I used to be the same way and thought narcissist = abuser but then I started listening to people online with NPD and its just another psychological disorder that people need treatment for.
I also started learning about abuse itself and people a lot of the time blame mental health disorders for it which is why therapy is seen a method for resolving it. Its not. Abuse happens when one person thinks their own autonomy requires for another person not to get a say. Its caused by a lack of respect for a person and can trace its way back to a lot of hate based belief systems.
I recommend the book "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy B to explain it better. I won't link since against forum rules but think its easy to find a copy.
NPD got blamed because on the outside it does look like the perfect mental health condition to blame. It sounds really bad since its basically shortened down to "You think your better than everyone else" but what I looked into thats a bare bones simplification of it.
Not only that labeling people with NPD as abusers is having stigma to people with a mental illness. Thats just punching down and not only that it lets actual abusers escape accountability because they can lie and say they do have it. So its not their fault they've been doing all this they just have a "mental illness" when most abuse is a choice albeit sometimes unintentional but even unintentional should be held accountable for their actions.
I think it got scapegoated so it could make abuse look "easy" and only done by bad mentally ill people when most of the time it isn’t because its also about power. Having a mental illness disenfranchises someone meaning less power. Not to say it never happens though some people with mental illness are abusive but not because of the mental illness.
Anyway I think most people on this thread when they say there afraid of being a narcissist when they actually mean abuser. But if you treat people with respect, take accountability for past wrongs with apologies and actually change behavoir, are kind to others, and let others have autonomy in your relationships then your probably fine.
.
and any invalid excuse he cam find . And of course it is everyone elses problem .