No, spirits are not just a mental state.

[Viktor]

I've heard some folks saying spirits are just a mental state as in actual spirits in their expected meaning don't exist.

By saying so we drive away the fog that is the only true weapon we have to channel our spells.
Enchanted person can't see trough a fog nor can they go beyond it to see outside of it, so when we drive that fog away, our spells will no longer work.
By doing this we surrender our only weapon and become weaponless, not able to do anything, we in fact turn from a mage in an anti-mage and stab ourself into our own back.

The more dense a fog is the more powerful a spell will be and consequently the more powerful a mage becomes when it exploits the fog either in its own advantage or in advantage to their subject.

The fog is created by the spirits that our subject either calls on their own e.g. by conjuring them or by someones intervention by directing them, therefore in essence spirits are real in their truest meaning, we can do nothing without the help of spirits, we can't enter into someones mind just like that, that's the job of the spirits who do the job while we observe and wait to act when it's time to act.

So if spirits are just a mental state and not real then somebody please advise on how to cast spells on those states so that it really works.
If that would be possible then every one would be influencing everyone else but that's obviously not the case in real world.

Spirits are real, we just have to wait until they create enough fog for our spells to be able to manifest, without the fog spells are totally powerless no matter how powerful one may consider them.

 

[Morell]

From my experience I'm convinced that spirits are independent thinking, feeling and living beings. Don't know what you mean by the fog as I do not experience any fog.

However for magic it seems that it doesn't matter what practitioner thinks or believes concerning spirits, the magic still works.

 

[Viktor]

Don't know what you mean by the fog as I do not experience any fog.

Neither do I experience any fog, the point is that by telling spirits don't exist to those who believe they do, one is destroying their belief about the spirits and what they do, including belief in rituals etc. that involves them.
This in turn makes them dismiss the occult entirely and go away, so what did you achieve?

However for magic it seems that it doesn't matter what practitioner thinks or believes concerning spirits, the magic still works.

It may work for things that don't deal with spirits, it may even work with spirits if it concerns you since your definition of them differs, but it can't work to channel it on others that deals with them if you destroy their belief (fog).

Bottom line is that telling "spirits don't exist" to those who experience them is anti occult and give no benefit neither to you nor to other person.

 

[Morell]

Neither do I experience any fog, the point is that by telling spirits don't exist to those who believe they do, one is destroying their belief about the spirits and what they do, including belief in rituals etc. that involves them.
This in turn makes them dismiss the occult entirely and go away, so what did you achieve?


It may work for things that don't deal with spirits, it may even work with spirits if it concerns you since your definition of them differs, but it can't work to channel it on others that deals with them if you destroy their belief (fog).

Bottom line is that telling "spirits don't exist" to those who experience them is anti occult and give no benefit neither to you nor to other person.

I see what you mean. Our conviction about reality can indeed be manipulated by others for good as well as for the bad.

To certain extend causing doubts can be a good thing. Occasional reality check can help us move towards better understanding. Though not everyone can gain this value from it.

 

[Asteriskos]

From my experience I'm convinced that spirits are independent thinking, feeling and living beings. Don't know what you mean by the fog as I do not experience any fog.

However for magic it seems that it doesn't matter what practitioner thinks or believes concerning spirits, the magic still works.

Like Crowley said regarding his own experience, something to the effect of: "there's something very reassuring about being bitten by a spirit whose existence you had formerly doubted"! I don't doubt the reality of spirits. For magical purposes some magicians have had to resort to the technique of acting "As If" they're real. We ourselves are Spirits, and I don't doubt Myself, that's Bad Magic/k!

Post automatically merged: Aug 7, 2025

Like Crowley said regarding his own experience, something to the effect of: "there's something very reassuring about being bitten by a spirit whose existence you had formerly doubted"! I don't doubt the reality of spirits. For magical purposes some magicians have had to resort to the technique of acting "As If" they're real. We ourselves are Spirits, and I don't doubt Myself, that's Bad Magic/k!

If you were talking with a "random group of magicians", let's say at the "pub", and you mentioned your unbelief in "Spirits", they would most likely look at each other, and then back at you while smiling and "chortling" to themselves, because they've heard that before. It wouldn't cause them to doubt anything except Your level of Perception. They may say something to the effect of: "Your lack of Faith in the Force is Disturbing"? They Do talk about things at the pub!

 

[Viktor]

If you were talking with a "random group of magicians", let's say at the "pub", and you mentioned your unbelief in "Spirits", they would most likely look at each other, and then back at you while smiling and "chortling" to themselves, because they've heard that before.

I was actually referring to some forum posts I've spotted so far, it's nothing brand new, I've seen it 3 years ago when I registered as well but didn't bother to comment much about it, I've also seen it in RL as well as on various other places online.

I understand that this may upset them, to be honest I've said similar things myself as well, however it took me some time to realize in RL how damaging such statements are.

They're more damaging to person saying it than to person hearing it.
Spiritual practice on one self and for self doesn't suffer since it's a personal thing based on personal beliefs, we interpret same things differently so our opinions do not affect us, however same can't be said for when done for others.

 

[Asteriskos]

I was actually referring to some forum posts I've spotted so far, it's nothing brand new, I've seen it 3 years ago when I registered as well but didn't bother to comment much about it, I've also seen it in RL as well as on various other places online.

I understand that this may upset them, to be honest I've said similar things myself as well, however it took me some time to realize in RL how damaging such statements are.

They're more damaging to person saying it than to person hearing it.
Spiritual practice on one self and for self doesn't suffer since it's a personal thing based on personal beliefs, we interpret same things differently so our opinions do not affect us, however same can't be said for when done for others.

You know that until someone experiences something for themselves talking about it is often futile. If someone were to tell me "I don't believe in spirits", my reply would be something on the order of: "Okay, that's Your Opinion", I wouldn't laugh, be surprised or upset at all by that.
I do know people though that would react pretty much as I described above, in addition to adding something like, "What the hell are you doing here then?" That's How They Are! They congregate with those that Do have much the same background and experience as themselves.