On "crossing the abyss"

[deci belle]

juanitos wrote:
"how to transmute into a higher immortal subtle body" that's exactly the goal in taoist alchemy... !! by the way, Mantak Chia and also Michael Winn are teaching these methods.

Let's forget the goal of taoist spiritual alchemy for the moment and destroy the throw-away aside referencing such and such and so and so who teach "these" methods. These methods? What methods are these, exactly? ~crickets chirping…

Even people wearing funny hats in remote run-down ancient temples in China cannot teach "these" methods. NO ONE teaches such as you are intimating. Just this is the science of essence, which cannot be taught.

Why? Such is already your own mind RIGHT NOW— how could one endeavor to teach the Unborn? As for method, there is only refining the psychological apparatus by a "method" termed "psychological fasting" by someone over a few thousand years ago. No matter who.

The method is more accurately stated as starving, or else overloading the greedy, insatiable, psychological function (it's not a thing). Mind is already immortal, since it is not created. It's not even primal, such as the primal organization of the Creative, which can be seen (by those who truly cross the abyss). Seeing, as such, is itself the immortal. To the point, it's not even an it. One might say only, that such might be termed the quality of awake.

Ultimately, there is no thing~ even here and now. The abyss is not a mystery; here and now is the mystery in light of once, and only once, having experienced the abyss.

Mind is not created, constituting Nonorigination. Just this is our nature, inconceivable. A selfless glimpse (being selfless knowledge) of "your original face" constitutes "crossing the abyss." Thousands of long-forgotten euphemisms have been used by numberless prior illuminates throughout the last couple million years or so by beings (just a rough estimate) to reference what amounts to a signpost along the way. It has been described as "swallowing the entire ocean in a single gulp." It's a HUGE pill, but it's not a big deal in that "absolutely nothing is gained by complete perfect enlightenment." Yet, Gautama buddha needed a good 5 years or so, in the aftermath of his "achievement", to stabilize the resultant shift of his "assemblage point" to meet Creation in terms of its true nature in everyday ordinary situations. The highest order of "instruction" that IS taught in authentic teaching tradition from time immemorial is "subtle spiritual adaption." In the school of Complete Reality (taoism), such is referred to as the science of life. Actualizing the reality of such is cleverly termed suchness or else thusness in western buddhism.

If something were gained by crossing the abyss, it wouldn't be enlightenment. Such does not and never has conferred an affirmation of tangible "spiritual" attainment other than to have, without a doubt, facilitated a selfless evocation of having "planted the seed of buddhahood" in the homeland of nothing whatsoever. That is, seeing your nature, is a selflessly experienced projection of inconceivable selfless spiritual potential constituting reality, being assessed as an experience of seeing seeing in terms of itself being the quality of awake, which is selfless nonoriginated aware potential, just this being your nature. It is you, yet you are not it. How on earth could the quality of awake be taught by moving around some plasmic psychosomaticism? Packing chi is created. Ending up with immortality (nonorigination) requires working with unborn essential nature directly without intermediary from the start.

The point is, as such, thus is already your own mind RIGHT NOW. NO ONE can "teach" this because it's not created. It cannot be produced by way of the created in any way, shape, or form. It is not reached by way of the person. It is not relative to the person. Mind does not constitute the person. Being your own mind right now only is in terms of an allocation relative to the body. That being said, neither the nature of mind nor the nature of your body is words; never has been, and never will be. Ponder that deeply (or not).

So who would "teach" this, and who would be taught this? NO ONE. That is a trick answer because just his no one (with no status) is truly who you really are. When ego gets this, in terms of its distinct absence (as it doesn't get to see no one's nature), it can further receive guidance towards its proper functionality relative to the mastery of no one, alone.

The issue, relative to the bundle of ego-functions that infallibly usurp the true identity of ordinary ignoramuses, is that crossing the abyss, is basically unattainable. One doesn't do sudden illumination. It's not the person. There is a natural barrier called the gateless gate. Taoism teaches that the natural "method" is to refine the self and await the time. Self-refinement is enlightening activity. Enlightening activity is that which constitutes stopping habitual reliance on psychological pattern-consciousness and seeing reality as is without referencing the person.

After a long long time of such subtle self-refining activity in the midst of ordinary situations, one begins to see potential naturally and so begins the "gathering" of potential by seeing alone. Nothing is gathered. Seeing alone is absorption. Upon seeing, one does not entertain thoughts. Potential is energy stolen from creation, reverted from its karmic matrix by virtue of karma's essential nature (potential), by the use of nonpsychological attention. Amassing potential seen in this way over a lifetime, one may eventually cross over the abyss by such reversion and refinement by nonpsychological attention to fuse with reality, heretofore nonoriginated. It is necessary to work with potential (nonorigination) to end up with nonorigination (immortality).

Only by working with what is the same does one end up with the same. As above, so below. Worldly methods utilizing plasmic energy (at best), or else psychological projection in trance-states are dubious cul-de-sacs of no account, in terms of spiritual (selfless) realization (real knowledge). Life is short, there are 3600 aberrant side-tracks. Usually, by the time one is forty years of age, if one is not already working with potential, one will need to utilize grafting (sexual alchemy) to accomplish the work (needing concentration), in the course of subtle refining "method" constituting practical application of stopping and seeing.

 

[Durward]

Is not that hard, we are talking about a subjective and complex rite of passage that among other things kills your ego.

Ironically everyone that claims to succeed is basically the incarnation of a popstar, full of themselves and incapable of having an normal argument without calling the other part childish, see what I meant?

We end with 3 options:

1- The process is not that deep and don't kill shit, you pass through it and that's it

2- 90% of the population that claimed to succeed are lying.

3- The process itself is a lie

I personally am inclined to believe options 2 or 3

I agree with you. There are many different conditions in the human spectrum of possibilities, and fooling ourselves is way up there in the number one position.
Cult brainwashing is also a huge problem.
Self hypnosis is possible, where they then convert back to what they were before they fooled themselves.
Delusion is also up there on top.
Liars are likely also huge in this cesspool.
We see this constantly with the current Kundalini claims, the Enlightenment claims, and other sensory hallucinations that are self-induced and temporary, regardless of how they feel subjectively to the person, they still aren't what the word is meant to describe. What they are looking for is usually defined as hysterical, delusional, etc.
Some religions just call it backsliding, with surviving the abyss over and over and coming back as a legitimate option.
So, I assume the path for some people can go forwards and backwards, and that this isn't a mile marker that, once crossed, is any kind of permanent fixture or position. Because most people are making up the rules as they go.

 

[Eliyel]

Some religions just call it backsliding, with surviving the abyss over and over and coming back as a legitimate option.
So, I assume the path for some people can go forwards and backwards, and that this isn't a mile marker that, once crossed, is any kind of permanent fixture or position. Because most people are making up the rules as they go.

This what I'm inclined to think as well. I'm not much of a Crowley follower, but I have been through the experience of that "dissolution of the ego" more than once, and still very much been myself after the fact. To me, it never felt like a transcendence. It felt like getting called out on my own faults in a way that would make me fully understand them, without being able to hide behind my own biases to justify those behaviors. Coming out of the experience still meant having to put in the work to make changes to myself, and I don't think there's any "spiritual awakening" shortcut that lets a person skip having to facilitate their own growth.

It's something that's very intense and uncomfortable to go through. Unfortunately and kind of understandably, I think a lot of people who experience it would rather believe that they're still in that unbiased state and have "finished" their development, rather than accept it as a lesson to help them continue working through the hard part.