Opinions on Psychedelics related to the occult?

[Accipeveldare]

I've seen a lot of people online worshiping or taking advice from DMT "Entities" or things they saw during a mushroom trip. What are the odds that these entities are actually real in the sense that they are conscious and self aware apart from being a trick your brain is playing on you due to psychedelics?

 

[8Lou1]

you just know. just like you know you are not a flower when you see one in your garden. when you dont know otherness you havent met one yet.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Two thoughts, one from Crowley:

“In this book it is spoken of... Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes and many other things which may or may not exist. It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them.”

and a second from Zen Buddhism:

"First, there is a mountain. Then there is no mountain. Then there is."

 

[Accipeveldare]

Two thoughts, one from Crowley:

“In this book it is spoken of... Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes and many other things which may or may not exist. It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them.”

and a second from Zen Buddhism:

"First, there is a mountain. Then there is no mountain. Then there is."

Could you explain a little more?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

The first one is pretty straightforward; Crowley is telling you to be careful about what, in your magical experiences, you consider to be real.

The second one is that when you first study, a thing is real. As you continue, you realise that it is not real. Eventually, you realise why it is real.

For example: if you study physics, a mountain (which you consider real) is discovered to be mostly made up of empty space, and the rest of it made up of probabilities. Then, later you find out how this almost nothingness actually forms a solid object.

 

[Accipeveldare]

The first one is pretty straightforward; Crowley is telling you to be careful about what, in your magical experiences, you consider to be real.

The second one is that when you first study, a thing is real. As you continue, you realise that it is not real. Eventually, you realise why it is real.

For example: if you study physics, a mountain (which you consider real) is discovered to be mostly made up of empty space, and the rest of it made up of probabilities. Then, later you find out how this almost nothingness actually forms a solid object.

Ohhhhhhhh, I get it now. I have to be completely honest. I always thought Crowley was a smart guy but I could never really understand his way of explaining things so that's why I tend to avoid his books. But I see what you mean. This is actually great information.

 

[Mars]

If you need drugs to experience anything occult or paranormal, you don't deserve this experience or you are just another Kyle Odom in the making.

What it does is making people insufferable to listen to and super disgusting to be around.

You can do far greater things with sleep paralysis and meditation. Actually a lot of trip reports of people that take high doses of LSD or DMT are just a watered down version of what a Trance state Is.

You can conjure up the "machine elves" too but it's rather boring. Sometimes I change my apartment to see what it look likes with different décor or I change my appearance. Every sensory experience can be replicated while in such a state. But you have full control over it unlike with drugs. And you can do some constructive things like remote viewing or figure out a way to be successful.

I don't recommend Crowley at all. Such a tool. He is the reason the "Occult" scene has become the mess it is. You will get far greater insights by going through FSB or CIA documents then his works.

 

[Accipeveldare]

While I do agree Crowley isn't the first person I'd look into when studying the occult I still don't believe he isn't a reliable source. And yes, DMT IS DISGUSTING

 

[Xenophon]

Crowley was an occult adept, there is no denying. But what level he operated on seems to have varied widely and wildly. I do not doubt he had a number of genuine experiences. Unfortunately the man was also an author---as a breed it's a rare writer who unfailingly prefers veracity to the well-turned phrase or striking story. Plus, once he got bitten by the Thelema bug, he wrote as a man with a mission. Read a few accounts from Crowley about life at Cefalu, as compared with those of others'. Finally, Crowley dabbled a good bit in cocaine towards life's end and heroin for much of his life. (It was often prescribed for his asthma, a common thing back then.) To quote Guy Ritchie, "Junkies, as any junkie can tell you, are not to be trusted."

My verdict is, he's an engaging writer. But there's a bit too much Aleister Crowley in Aleister Crowley. He's always working an angle on the reader.

 

[Accipeveldare]

Crowley was an occult adept, there is no denying. But what level he operated on seems to have varied widely and wildly. I do not doubt he had a number of genuine experiences. Unfortunately the man was also an author---as a breed it's a rare writer who unfailingly prefers veracity to the well-turned phrase or striking story. Plus, once he got bitten by the Thelema bug, he wrote as a man with a mission. Read a few accounts from Crowley about life at Cefalu, as compared with those of others'. Finally, Crowley dabbled a good bit in cocaine towards life's end and heroin for much of his life. (It was often prescribed for his asthma, a common thing back then.) To quote Guy Ritchie, "Junkies, as any junkie can tell you, are not to be trusted."

My verdict is, he's an engaging writer. But there's a bit too much Aleister Crowley in Aleister Crowley. He's always working an angle on the reader.

You do have a great point. I never trusted anything having to do with Thelema personally. I always thought his books were reliable if you need light insight on a topic but never on Thelema. (I typically never believed he ran into a deity named Aiwass but that's up for debate)

 

[Xenophon]

You do have a great point. I never trusted anything having to do with Thelema personally. I always thought his books were reliable if you need light insight on a topic but never on Thelema. (I typically never believed he ran into a deity named Aiwass but that's up for debate)

When Crowley writes about unadorned magick, he is at his best. When he turns prophet, we can't sustain the role.

 

[Accipeveldare]

When Crowley writes about unadorned magick, he is at his best. When he turns prophet, we can't sustain the role.

Truest thing I've ever heard anybody say about Crowley

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Truest thing I've ever heard anybody say about Crowley

Along with "Never let him near your woman, your wallet, or your bodily orifices"

 

[Aeternus]

Along with "Never let him near your woman, your wallet, or your bodily orifices"

Lol couldn't have said it better

 

[Xenophon]

Truest thing I've ever heard anybody say about Crowley

Typo in my post. I meant to write "he," not "we." Though the latter makes a sort of sense, given that Thelema died from lack of interest.

 

[Lurker]

Just to steer this back on topic, you might want to read Frater Shiva's book Inside Solar Lodge: Behind the Veil. You can find it on lulu LINK HERE. (You can also find it on Amazon, but the prices are absurd.)

In a nutshell, Solar Lodge was an OTO/AA lodge that was active in California in the 1960s when LSD was legal and the OTO was otherwise inactive worldwide. They used LSD as their ritual sacrament in every ritual they did until it became illegal.

I'm not advocating, and personally, I'm far too old for such sacraments. But it's a great read, and might give you another way of looking at things.

 

[Xenophon]

Just to steer this back on topic, you might want to read Frater Shiva's book Inside Solar Lodge: Behind the Veil. You can find it on lulu

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(You can also find it on Amazon, but the prices are absurd.)

In a nutshell, Solar Lodge was an OTO/AA lodge that was active in California in the 1960s when LSD was legal and the OTO was otherwise inactive worldwide. They used LSD as their ritual sacrament in every ritual they did until it became illegal.

I'm not advocating, and personally, I'm far too old for such sacraments. But it's a great read, and might give you another way of looking at things.

Can you give a brief summary? The link is blocked where I live.

 

[Lurker]

Can you give a brief summary? The link is blocked where I live.

It's Frater Shiva's autobiography and a history of Solar Lodge up until he left. For this thread, the point is that they used LSD for all of their group rituals because they thought it empowered their occult abilities. None of them used drugs outside of the ritual setting. Frater Shiva used to be active on the lashtal forum, although that seems to be defunct now.

Here is the synopsis on lulu's website, which seems to have been written by Frater Shiva himself:

Inside Solar Lodge - Behind the Veil re-visits the well-known legend that was told in Inside Solar Lodge - Outside the Law [now out of print]. But this version of the text has been highly expanded to include the real secrets. What were these "secrets?" I will tell you here, simply, and in greater detail in the book: (1) A silver talisman, (2) Ceremonial Magick, and (3) Legal LSD. This book specifically chronicles the historical, legal use of LSD in a magickal group setting in the mid-1960's where the A.'. A.'. Tasks of the Grades were the measuring-stick of our everyday reality. This book features startling new insights in many areas presented by Frater Jon, Frater Anubis and Jerry Cornelius, with a Foreword by Martin P. Starr. This is the wide open, full-spectrum Saga of Solar Lodge - there will be no further sequels, because now there is nothing left to tell. This is the softcover edition, established in perpetuity. List $29.

 

[Shade]

While I do agree Crowley isn't the first person I'd look into when studying the occult I still don't believe he isn't a reliable source. And yes, DMT IS DISGUSTING

I don’t see DMT as “Disgusting” but it’s much better to take in ayahuasca form and let your body convert it, in that form it has unwanted side effect however it is more spiritual and is used to help cure addiction, ptsd, open up past traumas so they can heal and it’s a very good medicine for opening yourself up to much needed inner work some refer to as shadow work,
DMT itself (smoked) imo is a good way to just get the feel of how much more there is out there and when you break through you see another side of reality.
It makes it easier to get back in that state of mind through trance like states.

 

[Sabbatius]

I only take peyote.