Pacts with unconventional spirits

[Jade]

I often hear about pacts with demons and that's all cool but what about the myriad of different spirits out there. We need to talk about pacts with spirits other than demons more.
Why not Gods and Goddesses or Angels, Archangels or even the Enochian angels.
The 84 Genius sprits associated with eliphas levi the most popular being the Wealth relate spirit of Nitika
The 8/9 angels of omnipotence
I have heard of people making pacts with Djinn but not fae
Also a pact with one of the elemental Kings is unheard of to me as well.
Now when it comes to planetary magic, A pact with the planetary spirit is probably unsafe but the intelligence? or even the Olympic spirits?
If you have done any of these and want to share your thoughts please do.
I am aware some of the spirits just won't do pacts but i include them cuz who knows maybe there is someone out there that did it.

 

[Nembra]

Not all kinds of things want to exchange something with you. Demons simply want to shave off small pieces of you until nothing remains, but there's little of use you can give an angel or a planet.

 

[Xemuno]

y eso está bien, pero ¿qué pasa con la miríada de espíritus diferentes que existen?

Have you ever personally made a pact? Why make a pact when you can reach a temporary agreement with any entity and renew it? It seems extreme to me.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:22 AM

Not all kinds of things want to exchange something with you. Demons simply want to shave off small pieces of you until nothing remains, but there's little of use you can give an angel or a planet.

Yes, subtle energy entities (angels, gods, intelligences, etc.) don't need anything a human being offers, so trying to make a pact with them is pointless. With Enochian angels, you can reach a teaching agreement, provided you dedicate yourself completely to the practice, becoming a channel for it. With elemental and Goetic entities, it's possible, but the consequences of a pact are too great. If you don't fulfill it, you're finished. And even if you do, something very important will be taken from you in some area. What they ask for is usually something very dear to your being. Therefore, the approach of making pacts is, frankly, madness.

 

[Nembra]

Yes, subtle energy entities (angels, gods, intelligences, etc.) don't need anything a human being offers, so trying to make a pact with them is pointless. With Enochian angels, you can reach a teaching agreement, provided you dedicate yourself completely to the practice, becoming a channel for it. With elemental and Goetic entities, it's possible, but the consequences of a pact are too great. If you don't fulfill it, you're finished. And even if you do, something very important will be taken from you in some area. What they ask for is usually something very dear to your being. Therefore, the approach of making pacts is, frankly, madness.

Well, angels are in fact bound by several covenants, but the whole point is that they can't be made on demand.

I'm not sure, however, why would elementals want your things. I have little experience with them, frankly.

 

[Xemuno]

Well, angels are in fact bound by several covenants, but the whole point is that they can't be made on demand.

I'm not sure, however, why would elementals want your things. I have little experience with them, frankly.

With them (elementals and Dginn), it's more about gaining favor with the hierarchs. They assign you an assistant. In the case of the elementals, it's best to be prudent and speak with Sandalphon (Elias, his former human name). This archangel's patronage guides you to the elemental kings, and from there, you can earn their trust and favor.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

I often hear about pacts with demons and that's all cool but what about the myriad of different spirits out there. We need to talk about pacts with spirits other than demons more.
Why not Gods and Goddesses or Angels, Archangels or even the Enochian angels.
The 84 Genius sprits associated with eliphas levi the most popular being the Wealth relate spirit of Nitika
The 8/9 angels of omnipotence
I have heard of people making pacts with Djinn but not fae
Also a pact with one of the elemental Kings is unheard of to me as well.
Now when it comes to planetary magic, A pact with the planetary spirit is probably unsafe but the intelligence? or even the Olympic spirits?
If you have done any of these and want to share your thoughts please do.
I am aware some of the spirits just won't do pacts but i include them cuz who knows maybe there is someone out there that did it.

I don't recommend making pacts with celestial spirits (they're djinn, surprise!). I wouldn't know about olympic spirits though. But the spirits of the planets/stars are prisoners and tricksters at best. They want you to make pacts/contracts with them, but the terms can never be kept on your end. They're nearly impossible. Now there is a strict hierarchy, a bureaucracy, that handles the terms of the these contracts and pacts. A large part of getting an edge on them is sniffing out this hierarchy through regular and consistent conjuration. There are certain spirits that enforce the contracts, that write them, that add certain conditions, that measure and weigh the exchange being made. There are things you can do to manipulate this process. But you are quickly approaching the world of sorcery - and that is a special type of madness hunting these spirits down to manipulate the terms.

 

[Jade]

Not all kinds of things want to exchange something with you. Demons simply want to shave off small pieces of you until nothing remains, but there's little of use you can give an angel or a planet.

What experience did you have with a demon to come to that conclusion?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 3:08 AM

Have you ever personally made a pact? Why make a pact when you can reach a temporary agreement with any entity and renew it? It seems extreme to me.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:22 AM

Yes, subtle energy entities (angels, gods, intelligences, etc.) don't need anything a human being offers, so trying to make a pact with them is pointless. With Enochian angels, you can reach a teaching agreement, provided you dedicate yourself completely to the practice, becoming a channel for it. With elemental and Goetic entities, it's possible, but the consequences of a pact are too great. If you don't fulfill it, you're finished. And even if you do, something very important will be taken from you in some area. What they ask for is usually something very dear to your being. Therefore, the approach of making pacts is, frankly, madness.

Pacts usually seem extreme to people who only work with spirits for short term purposes. But if you want to do a long term Goal a pact with an entity is going to almost guarantee it being done.
Good example: you want to become good at remote viewing but it's hard. you can do short term work with spirits to help you whenever you get stuck or you make a pact for 1 year or more and that spirit will help you in every step and make sure you get to the point you noted in the pact.
Pacts are usually for long term Goals.
Someone might make a 5 year pact with belial to take over a company in 5 years from a low position to the top. would be much more planning and thinking involved with small short term spells.
Pacts can also be short term as well of course! usually people do longer time

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 3:10 AM

With them (elementals and Dginn), it's more about gaining favor with the hierarchs. They assign you an assistant. In the case of the elementals, it's best to be prudent and speak with Sandalphon (Elias, his former human name). This archangel's patronage guides you to the elemental kings, and from there, you can earn their trust and favor.

I didn't know He helped with elementals, i thought people just summoned them and started the relationship there

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 3:13 AM

I don't recommend making pacts with celestial spirits (they're djinn, surprise!). I wouldn't know about olympic spirits though. But the spirits of the planets/stars are prisoners and tricksters at best. They want you to make pacts/contracts with them, but the terms can never be kept on your end. They're nearly impossible. Now there is a strict hierarchy, a bureaucracy, that handles the terms of the these contracts and pacts. A large part of getting an edge on them is sniffing out this hierarchy through regular and consistent conjuration. There are certain spirits that enforce the contracts, that write them, that add certain conditions, that measure and weigh the exchange being made. There are things you can do to manipulate this process. But you are quickly approaching the world of sorcery - and that is a special type of madness hunting these spirits down to manipulate the terms.

Where did you get the info that they are prisoners/Tricksters? People often warn not to work with the spirit of the planet because it's such a raw force so the intelligence or the Archangel or even the Olympic spirit is worked with to control the planetary spirit

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

What experience did you have with a demon to come to that conclusion?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 3:08 AM

Pacts usually seem extreme to people who only work with spirits for short term purposes. But if you want to do a long term Goal a pact with an entity is going to almost guarantee it being done.
Good example: you want to become good at remote viewing but it's hard. you can do short term work with spirits to help you whenever you get stuck or you make a pact for 1 year or more and that spirit will help you in every step and make sure you get to the point you noted in the pact.
Pacts are usually for long term Goals.
Someone might make a 5 year pact with belial to take over a company in 5 years from a low position to the top. would be much more planning and thinking involved with small short term spells.
Pacts can also be short term as well of course! usually people do longer time

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 3:10 AM

I didn't know He helped with elementals, i thought people just summoned them and started the relationship there

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 3:13 AM

Where did you get the info that they are prisoners/Tricksters? People often warn not to work with the spirit of the planet because it's such a raw force so the intelligence or the Archangel or even the Olympic spirit is worked with to control the planetary spirit

Ive conjured hundreds of them.

 

[Nembra]

What experience did you have with a demon to come to that conclusion?

I mean, literally any angel will tell that to you - and they don't really lie - but that's something that can be derived from first principles I think. Any approach towards humans that is not bottomless void of cosmic malice is irreconciliable with the idea of a rebellion against heaven, even in some metaphorical or perhaps arcane interpretation.

 

[Jade]

Ive conjured hundreds of them.

I can believe it, is this ever beneficial at all?
Have you made a pact with anything?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:00 AM

Any approach towards humans that is not bottomless void of cosmic malice is irreconciliable with the idea of a rebellion against heaven, even in some metaphorical or perhaps arcane interpretation.

Can you go a bit more into this?

 

[Nembra]

Can you go a bit more into this?

I'm not exactly sure what would you'd like to know. What do you think demons are, exactly?

 

[Jade]

I'm not exactly sure what would you'd like to know. What do you think demons are, exactly?

When i think of demons i think of being of a more Chaotic makeup, or lower vibration. I think they are external entities with their own agendas.

Any approach towards humans that is not bottomless void of cosmic malice is irreconciliable with the idea of a rebellion against heaven, even in some metaphorical or perhaps arcane interpretation.

do you think demons are bottomless void of malice? and rebelling against heaven?

 

[Nembra]

When i think of demons i think of being of a more Chaotic makeup, or lower vibration. I think they are external entities with their own agendas.

What does "chaotic" even mean? What is even vibrating? Those are all metaphors, as some don't seem to realise. There are many spiritual entities with "their own agendas", it's just that demons' agenda is most often hating the fact that the world exists. Their other thing is that they lie about what they are. Maybe you're using the term broadly, as in Greek daemons?

do you think demons are bottomless void of malice? and rebelling against heaven?

In a way, I suppose. It's complex.

 

[Jade]

What does "chaotic" even mean? What is even vibrating? Those are all metaphors, as some don't seem to realise. There are many spiritual entities with "their own agendas", it's just that demons' agenda is most often hating the fact that the world exists. Their other thing is that they lie about what they are. Maybe you're using the term broadly, as in Greek daemons?

In a way, I suppose. It's complex.

Think about it like this, i see angels as beings of order and demons as beings of chaos. There can be some nuance there but generally. Vibration is more of a new age term for frequency lower vibrational is closer to the earth and higher is more celestial.
The reason i was confused is cuz i don't see demons as a "bottomless void of malice" or "hating the fact that the world exists" I don't think they love us or anything but they are more complex than just hating the world exists in my eyes.
We all have a right to our own views tho so i'm not attacking yours, i just see it differently

 

[Nembra]

Think about it like this, i see angels as beings of order and demons as beings of chaos. There can be some nuance there but generally. Vibration is more of a new age term for frequency lower vibrational is closer to the earth and higher is more celestial.
The reason i was confused is cuz i don't see demons as a "bottomless void of malice" or "hating the fact that the world exists" I don't think they love us or anything but they are more complex than just hating the world exists in my eyes.
We all have a right to our own views tho so i'm not attacking yours, i just see it differently

By all means, no offence taken. Confrontation is healthy, just unfashionable.
I am aware how the new age misuses those ultimately very simple and mundane words. This whole shtick with high and low frequencies is, aside from being lexically atrocious, ultimately a harmful oversimplification. Spiritual states and entities can't possibly be described by just one axis. I've seen angels from above and from below, and from all other directions meet at crossroads and exchange stories. There are angels like fire and iron, like stars and planets, and like bottomless depths, and of many other natures. Excuse me pointing out the irony in mentioning complexity.

Chaos is not the opposite of order. Discord is. Chaos is a beautiful, subtle form of order which emerges in some systems. If anything chaos is celestial, quite literally even since motions of celestial bodies are in fact properly chaotic. Demons are first of all discordant, or at least they want to be.

 

[solxyz]

Yes, I've made pacts with all kinds of beings. The kinds of things they want varies widely however. Saints often want you to do good works on their behalf, or to engage in a certain amount of prayer. Angels usually want some kind of personal reform. Fairies like food and sometimes the creation of portals for them. Gods want devotion, which is a whole complex of things. Demons like praise. These are not definitive rules; I just mention them to give a sense of the variety of tastes one can encounter. Pact making is my basic model for working with spirits, and everything that is anything particular wants something. Everything needs to eat and everything has some kind of aim.

 

[Jade]

Yes, I've made pacts with all kinds of beings. The kinds of things they want varies widely however. Saints often want you to do good works on their behalf, or to engage in a certain amount of prayer. Angels usually want some kind of personal reform. Fairies like food and sometimes the creation of portals for them. Gods want devotion, which is a whole complex of things. Demons like praise. These are not definitive rules; I just mention them to give a sense of the variety of tastes one can encounter. Pact making is my basic model for working with spirits, and everything that is anything particular wants something. Everything needs to eat and everything has some kind of aim.

I didn't know it was possible to make a pact with a saint? our you mean like doing a petition and promising that you do something in return rather than a long Contract that people think of when they hear demon pact. i wanted to know if that was done with other types of spirits.

 

[solxyz]

I didn't know it was possible to make a pact with a saint? our you mean like doing a petition and promising that you do something in return rather than a long Contract that people think of when they hear demon pact. i wanted to know if that was done with other types of spirits.

I don't do "long contracts" for any kind of being. It seems silly to me. The demons don't care about boilerplate, and there is no court that is going to be reviewing the documents. If it adds gravitas for you, then that's fine. I do find it pretty important to write down the key points of the agreement - what I asked for and what I promised - because I often forget some of the specifics. And writing it down in a ritual way does add substance to the spell, but for me a bunch of pseudo-legalistic nonsense is rather pointless.

 

[Jade]

I don't do "long contracts" for any kind of being. It seems silly to me. The demons don't care about boilerplate, and there is no court that is going to be reviewing the documents. If it adds gravitas for you, then that's fine. I do find it pretty important to write down the key points of the agreement - what I asked for and what I promised - because I often forget some of the specifics. And writing it down in a ritual way does add substance to the spell, but for me a bunch of pseudo-legalistic nonsense is rather pointless.

I didn't mean it like that, more like " I want these 10 things within 6 month and in return i will do (Blank) in return rather 10 different novenas

 

[Amadeus]

celestial spirits (they're djinn, surprise!

but the terms can never be kept on your end

What about these, the ones from behind the dhikr/verses/chapters of the quran. The terms can be fine for some people but kind of difficult for others. I know many of them are based on a certain number of recitations either daily or weekly, long rituals. Like reciting a dua or verse x number of times. I recall one requirement for the khodam jinn of ayatul kursi, being about 3-4 hours of recitations a day. Some mad sufi would be happy with that What requirements are you talking about here? Similar?

conjured hundreds of them.

You are a wild guy, that's why we love you!

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 8:05 AM

I've heard from some mad sufi stories about people who broke the contract and things went completely downhill after that. In one case a shaykh had to interfere to save the guy. It was a contract with khodam jinn of some other chapter/verse not kursi.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 8:08 AM

I like the ones more where a contract is made for a certain duration, to recite. Many others though they make one that is for a lifetime and this can become problematic.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 8:12 AM

I didn't know it was possible to make a pact with a saint?

It's like what @solxyz said, the recitations, engaging in prayer and staying pure. It can be done let's say in the churches where you light candles before icons. You could ask for certain something and offer prayers. Perhaps you get a dream where a monk like figure shows up. Then something happens. As always of course if you have an agreement, honor your part of the detail and fulfill the requirements.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 8:13 AM

Damn autocorrect, meant to say deal not detail.