Predisposition to Magick?

[Firetree]

You bring up a distinction that I think really matters and hasn’t been fully fleshed out yet: Magick and a magickal system are two different things.
A system is a vehicle. Magick is the current itself.

Shamanism is a great example. There’s no structured progression, no multi-year textbook crawl. The shaman was just “the one who sees.” They weren’t initiated by doctrine or by system, they were recognized for their capacity. No curriculum. Just the ability to interact with unseen forces. Just magick.

I am curious as to the source of your information . You should look up 'Shanar ' ( Shamanism ) and 'recognition of power ' .

Structured progression ? Curriculum ?

• Apprenticeship: An initiate (neophyte) typically trains under an experienced elder shaman. They act as assistants during rituals,
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  of handling ritual objects, chanting, and
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  through observation and service.
• The Nine Initiations: The Shanar is not a one-time event. There are nine distinct levels of initiation. A shaman must perform a new Shanar ceremony to progress to each higher level, gaining more spiritual authority and complex tools (like the orgay horns) at each stage.

Of course this does not apply to some dude on the internet who has decided he is a Shaman or teaches 'Shamanism ' , or other cultures that ripped the name off .

if you are interested in the subject, here is the real deal ;

'' In Siberian shamanic traditions (as in Bön and Buddhism) all techniques and teachings have their own precise source and are passed down through a line of authentic masters. Thus the principle of lineage is of great importance and has mechanisms safeguarding the purity of its transmission against external interference or corruption from within. It is precisely thanks to this principle of lineage that these traditions have come down to us today in good working order.''

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Outlier? Sure. But that makes the point even stronger.

Magical systems are lenses, not sources. They can train and refine, but they can’t install what isn’t already there in some form.

 

[FireBorn]

I am curious as to the source of your information . You should look up 'Shanar ' ( Shamanism ) and 'recognition of power ' .

Structured progression ? Curriculum ?

• Apprenticeship: An initiate (neophyte) typically trains under an experienced elder shaman. They act as assistants during rituals,
  Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
  of handling ritual objects, chanting, and
  Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
  through observation and service.
• The Nine Initiations: The Shanar is not a one-time event. There are nine distinct levels of initiation. A shaman must perform a new Shanar ceremony to progress to each higher level, gaining more spiritual authority and complex tools (like the orgay horns) at each stage.

Of course this does not apply to some dude on the internet who has decided he is a Shaman or teaches 'Shamanism ' , or other cultures that ripped the name off .

if you are interested in the subject, here is the real deal ;

'' In Siberian shamanic traditions (as in Bön and Buddhism) all techniques and teachings have their own precise source and are passed down through a line of authentic masters. Thus the principle of lineage is of great importance and has mechanisms safeguarding the purity of its transmission against external interference or corruption from within. It is precisely thanks to this principle of lineage that these traditions have come down to us today in good working order.''

Appreciate the informed reply. I get it, certain forms of shamanism, like Siberian Shamanism, absolutely had formalized initiations and structure. No argument there. The existence of systems, apprenticeships, even books? Sure. That’s part of how traditions preserve themselves.

But here’s the question that matters: Did everyone get to be a shaman? Was it open enrollment for whoever wanted it bad enough? Did they let someone keep trying for decades if they just couldn’t touch the current? Of course not.

Shamans served a role, and you either had the capacity, or you didn’t. That capacity might’ve been recognized through initiation, but it wasn’t created by initiation. You weren’t trained into being a seer, you were trained because you already were one.

Shamanism isn’t a single codified system. There are plenty of shamanic expressions across the globe that don’t follow a rigid structure. Narrowing it to one cultural lineage is fair if we’re talking anthropology. But I was speaking more philosophically, to the nature of magick itself.

Magick is the current. Systems are containers. You can study a system for decades and still never touch the current. That’s the distinction I was drawing.

 

[Firetree]

Appreciate the informed reply. I get it, certain forms of shamanism, like Siberian Shamanism, absolutely had formalized initiations and structure. No argument there. The existence of systems, apprenticeships, even books? Sure. That’s part of how traditions preserve themselves.

Its more than that . It can be considered that the 'certain forms' of Shamanism exist within the framework I described in Siberian Shamanism but outside that , in other places , the name shamanism was given to just about any native or indigenous practice that was not a recognized type of organised religion .

But here’s the question that matters: Did everyone get to be a shaman? Was it open enrollment for whoever wanted it bad enough? Did they let someone keep trying for decades if they just couldn’t touch the current? Of course not.

Yes, that is the topic , and I agree with that part in what you wrote ( I think I affirmed that myself earlier ) , just not equating any old modern practice with shamanism and saying it didnt have the things you first thought . I agree that most indigenous systems , you are 'born into ' and sometimes with special indications or arrangements present .

Shamans served a role, and you either had the capacity, or you didn’t. That capacity might’ve been recognized through initiation, but it wasn’t created by initiation. You weren’t trained into being a seer, you were trained because you already were one.

I would say ... had the recognized potential or inheritance to be trained as one .

Shamanism isn’t a single codified system. There are plenty of shamanic expressions across the globe that don’t follow a rigid structure. Narrowing it to one cultural lineage is fair if we’re talking anthropology. But I was speaking more philosophically, to the nature of magick itself.

They ( the people whose tradition it originally was ) are pissed because people all over the world are doing all sorts of things under the name of their practice ) . Yes, certainly from an anthripological perspective , but I dont get how it is ' to the nature of magick itself ' or 'philosophically'.

I guess you mean 'under the general term as it is now commonly misunderstood ' ?

Maybe you mean 'the nature of magic itself' is another way of saying , it is not wholly learnt but 'born into ' ?

Magick is the current. Systems are containers. You can study a system for decades and still never touch the current. That’s the distinction I was drawing.

Yes, I get you and it is an issue within anthropology . I studied a lot 'in the armchair' but there is also ''field work . But one is encouraged not to get too involved as you might loose perspective and objectivity . But how can you fully learn and comprehend without taking part .

So I have done both ... book learning and taking part, where I can . Not taking part in shamanism though ( although some might call my indigenous teacher shamans ( wrongly ) .

Post automatically merged: Jan 30, 2026

I meant to add regarding your ' being trained as a seer , you already were one ' . You might already know , but a Bo shaman has a LOT more skills and responsibility than that .... its phenomenal actually ... and in these areas they are somewhat like the Australian indigenous 'magicians' . Many of these need to be trained and learnt and do not 'come naturally ' nor are they born with that ability .

here is a list from AI

Spoiler

Here are the key skills and abilities a Bo Murgal shaman needs to possess:

1. Spiritual Mediumship and Trance Induction

• Controlling Altered States: The primary skill is the ability to enter a trance at will, allowing them to travel between the physical and spiritual realms.
• Channeling Spirits: They must possess the ability to allow ancestral spirits (ongod) or deities (tngri) to inhabit their bodies to speak and act on behalf of the community.
• Mastery of Ritual Instruments: They use specific tools—such as drums (khenkereg), jaw harps, costumes, and masks—to induce these trances and facilitate communication with spirits.

2. Healing and Restoration

• Spiritual Medicine: They diagnose and heal illnesses believed to have spiritual causes, such as "soul loss," spiritual pollution, and curses.
• Soul Retrieval: Shamans must be able to return lost parts of a human soul to restore health and mental well-being.
• Bone-Setting and Herbal Knowledge: While they are masters of the spirit world, they often possess knowledge of traditional medicine, including bone-setting (barishi) and herbal remedies.

3. Ritual Performance and Divination

• Divination: They use techniques like studying sheep scapulae (shoulder blades) or casting stones to read the future or find the cause of a problem.
• Conducting Ceremonies: They perform complex rituals to invoke the Eternal Blue Sky (Huhe Münhe Tengeri) and other deities.
• Sacrifice and Offering: Shamans know the proper rituals for making offerings to spirits to ensure protection and prosperity.

4. Environmental and Guardian Spirit Interaction

• Controlling Nature Spirits: They communicate with and appease local spirits (savdag for mountains/lands and lus for water) to prevent natural disasters.
• Hunting Magic: They possess skills in performing rituals that assist in hunting and ensuring the survival of the community.

5. Wisdom and Cultural Knowledge

• Oral Tradition Keeper: They are keepers of ancient traditions, lore, and genealogy.
• Moderation: They must balance the chaotic, opposing forces of nature (earth, fire, water, air) to protect the community.

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There is also a bit missing AI didnt pick up ; Knowledge of the stars and planets regarding seasonal changes and navigation and some other things .

A lot of it has to be learnt

Also , AI on 'can anyone do the training ' ;

who could undergo this training , anybody ?


In the traditional Mongolian and Buryatian belief systems, one cannot simply choose to undergo
Böö Murgel training. It is considered a divine calling rather than a professional choice.
The selection process typically follows these criteria:

• Hereditary Lineage (Utkha): Shamanism is primarily inherited. A candidate must possess the "shamanic essence" or soul of ancestors passed down through their family line. Without this ancestral connection, traditional practitioners believe one cannot safely bridge the worlds.
• "Shamanic Sickness": The spirits "choose" a person by inflicting a severe, unexplained illness that Western medicine often cannot treat. Symptoms include fainting, hallucinations, or chronic pain. Accepting the shamanic path is seen as the only "cure" for this spiritual crisis.
• Physical or Extraordinary Signs: Potential shamans may be born with physical markers, such as extra teeth or fingers, or they may survive a near-death experience like a lightning strike.
• Spiritual Recognition: An established elder shaman must "diagnose" the individual's calling through divination to confirm they have been elected by the spirits before training begins.

Can "anybody" do it?
While modern

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may offer courses to the public, traditional

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maintains that without the ancestral mandate and the spiritual "touch," formal initiation is impossible and even dangerous.

Post automatically merged: Jan 30, 2026

( Sorry of some dont like the AI references , I do it for simplicity . I have read the source material on Bo including the book I recommended . I am just using AI as a tool to summarize copy and post from the same source I have read .

 

[dema354]

I suppose some are predisposed towards magick, to psionics if you consider them to be different, to both and to some the opposite, i.e. just as there are different aptitudes some of which excel in success so too do some excel in failure. Just as some can hold their breaths underwater longer even without training a few will start drowning upon being submerged. You have those who are very good at something and also those who despite all sorts of training that's tailored towards them are not able to get off from the rock bottom. Of course in most cases I think identifying this skill ceiling is secondary to the attempt. I'm of the opinion that there is only so much you can achieve but unless you try you won't know. You may not succeed but without the attempt how can you be so certain?

Behind every talent are hours of practice and, most importantly, passion.

Well you're not likely to be able to recognize your talent if you're not passionate about it and if you don't even try or practice as you would say though if you're talented then the amount of effort or practice you would have to go through should be a lot less than the average. Maybe it just comes to you naturally like having a head start. To that I say if you really want to excel, practice still! After all as it has been said plenty of times, experience is what really matters, though having a predisposition certainly helps.

 

[BBBB]

So, people who dabble are not actually shamans, maybe they just lack the correct term, so they use the word shaman to mean any spirit contacting free-styler) I believe that practically anything with a nervous system can do magic, but in most cases it's just not worth the investment from the spirit. Ultimately, I believe the key is in attitude (call it mutuality). Spirits can work with materialists who only communicate through rigid rituals, they can somewhat use lunatics who lack any structure, but the sweet spot is sensitivity plus discipline - being intelligent. If someone rebels against rituals or systems and think they are free-stylers, well, guess what? The sirits they work with will simply shape them as they see fit. Because they have to, for a human to be of any use long-term it must be "broken in", at least capable of understanding that particular spirit. And that is work. So the easier someone makes it for the spirits to commune with them, the more chance they will. It's like relationships. You may be interesting in spirits eyes, but long term you also need to be not too high maintenance. And we can say the same for magical structures, you must know and use their program language to work with them.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Ultimately, I believe the key is in attitude (call it mutuality). Spirits can work with materialists who only communicate through rigid rituals, they can somewhat use lunatics who lack any structure, but the sweet spot is sensitivity plus discipline - being intelligent.

I agree - magical intent usually requires discipline. The 'lunatics' are probably like Obelix - they fell into it at an early age and it had a permanent effect on them...