Prophets and prophecy

[Morell]

So... there is a lot of prophets in the history and there are even people today who claim to have a prophecy for the world. What are they actually worth? Obviously entire religions grow around them and deform their original meaning beyond recognition. That is pretty much a problem with genuine prophets... well, if there actually are any. The fake ones, that's story for itself.

Sometimes fake ones are obvious and worse, they know. But it seems to me that a big deal of them is not realizing what they re doing, they are self-deluded... and possibly brainwashed from outside as well. They can become dangerous and apparently many are great manipulators who start cults. Some of those cults later cool down and become calm and acceptable religions. Some disappear, some die out... in multiple possible ways.

But what about true prophets? Is there really such a kind? I assume that there are true prophets, because what else can prove to us existence of spiritual, if not people having spiritual experiences? Our sciences are unlikely to explore spiritual anytime soon. (and thanks the darkness for that!) But since future is in constant flow, prophecies about the future are always on the fence, always there is chance that they won't come to pass, because humanity always changes...

If they bring teachings that agree with common sense and bring some improvement, then it's fine, even if the prophet is false, because they bring good. And true prophet can become dangerous predator too. So... how can we trust any prophet? I think that they deserve no more trust than anyone else. Anyone can do the work to reach spiritual. Perhaps the way they live and act can indicate their honesty... I don't know...

But I understand that if they bring hope, religions are easy to form around them.

 

[Ziran]

What are they actually worth?

It cultivates awareness of realm beyond conventional, mainstream, materialistic, cause-and-effect.

For example: Surah 2 from the Quran

"This is the Book! ... a guide for those mindful ˹of Allah˺... who believe in the unseen"

The story of Muhammaf who encounterd the angel Gabriel, is intended for those who "believe the unseen". That's "the worth", the value and utility, of prophecy, from our perspective as non=orophets.

But, there's also clues within the story which intimate how the prophet received their prophecy. Isaiah is the best example I know of. There's also an interesting passage in 2 Kings. Im sure there are others, but, prophecy isn't the area of my expertise. This also has value.

But zooming out, the general answer to your question is somewhat unsatisfing.

Why did God create prophets and prophecy? Because God wants to be known. Take a look at Psalm 119, for example.

 

[StarOfSitra]

The question is: what is a prophet to you?

 

[Morell]

A high bidder betting themselves as well as others on information the prophet does never 100% know where it come from or why.

 

[StarOfSitra]

A high bidder betting themselves as well as others on information the prophet does never 100% know where it come from or why.

I think many of us in this forum would fit into that definition at least once in our lives — maybe even several times. I’ve met people with incredible gifts in that sense. Once, I met a woman who wrote in a book using symbolic stories about things that would happen — and they did happen. I started calling her, in a friendly way, the Oraculous One.

 

[Morell]

I think many of us in this forum would fit into that definition at least once in our lives — maybe even several times. I’ve met people with incredible gifts in that sense. Once, I met a woman who wrote in a book using symbolic stories about things that would happen — and they did happen. I started calling her, in a friendly way, the Oraculous One.

That's actually good observation. You might be quite right. Though, Prophets usually do prophecies for entire humanity or big groups, don't they?

 

[StarOfSitra]

That's actually good observation. You might be quite right. Though, Prophets usually do prophecies for entire humanity or big groups, don't they?

Yes, and in fact I know people who have them. I myself have visions of many future events and a fairly good rate of accuracy, but I can’t be 100% certain about everything I see — it’s a lot of information, and very diverse. Many of us, out of fear of being wrong or judged, stay silent. My most recent visions, for example, are about the beginning of a worldwide war and Putin being assassinated. In other words, they are events of great significance for humanity.

 

[Morell]

Yes, and in fact I know people who have them. I myself have visions of many future events and a fairly good rate of accuracy, but I can’t be 100% certain about everything I see — it’s a lot of information, and very diverse. Many of us, out of fear of being wrong or judged, stay silent. My most recent visions, for example, are about the beginning of a worldwide war and Putin being assassinated. In other words, they are events of great significance for humanity.

WW3 and Putin dead, well, that wouldn't surprise me. Though I think that none really wants global conflict too much, interconnected economy and dependencies so far seems to be preventing it.

(joke) Those rapture awaiting Christians might be happy for another war being a sign of their end days.

Post automatically merged: Oct 14, 2025

@StarOfSitra Why do I keep reading your name as Star of Shinra? No pun intended, it just pops to my mind.

Have you compared your visions with visions of known prophets? Like the Sleeping Prophet? Might be interesting comparison.

 

[Faria]

So... there is a lot of prophets in the history and there are even people today who claim to have a prophecy for the world. What are they actually worth?

The role of a prophet is to call people to repentance and to show the way for that. If a prophet foretells doom, the purpose is to give people a warning so they can change their ways and avoid trouble.

I personally believe that 90% of Bible prophecy is back-dated. Something happened, and people wrote books about their history with the prophets warning that it would happen. As a result, Bible commentary will point out accuracy of the prophets, but that was probably easy to do because the prophecies were written centuries after the events happened. You can find most of the Book of Revelations events in those same 120 years before it was written, for example.

Edgar Cayce once told people that a magical blue healing stone would be found in the Caribbean, and when it was found in the 1970's people called it the Atlantis stone and bragged about Cayce. Now we know that stone was discovered by a priest about a decade before Cayce mentioned it, casting doubts on his so-called prophecies. He knew something few knew, made a "prophecy," and it took more than 100 years to bust him.

A true prophet should tell people who they are and where they belong in the universe, how to find their right path, and what to expect from it.

I think that if anyone tells people a specific date the world will end, and it doesn't, there should be life imprisonment for the false prophet beginning on that day.

 

[Johny111]

All prophets are simultaneously false, but in some way also true. How can we overcome this contradictory statement? You see, the "truthfulness" of a prophecy is reflected in the amount of energy it manages to generate in order for it to be fulfilled, that is, realized. Faith, or actions inspired by faith, is what brings a prophecy to fruition, especially if that prophecy has eschatological implications. Regarding less comprehensive prophecies, a prophet is someone who simply knows how to "read" the contents of astral light, or someone who knows how to "translate" the meaning of an image into the context of linear space and time. Almost anyone is able to notice these astral images, but for the intelligence to be able to interpret the vision, that is, to translate it into an effective framework, it must first of all be purified from the uncontrolled influence of unarticulated astral light. Another interesting thing about prophecies is the possibility that they themselves can trigger events. This means that the moment a prophet foresees a phenomenon, in a way, they are also calling it into existence.

 

[Sabbatius]

I think that if anyone tells people a specific date the world will end, and it doesn't, there should be life imprisonment for the false prophet beginning on that day.

Heh. According to Torah Mitzvot, the Prophet whose prophesy does not come to fruition is stoned to death.

There was Saint Paisios, a monk on Mount Athos who made the prediction of another war in Istanbul which involves Russia, Greece and most of Europe and Turkey will be converted back to Orthodox Christianity. However, Saint Paisios stated it will be a devastating war with extreme, pointless bloodshed.

 

[Shalux]

Maybe it's worth thinking at the same time about the large amount of allegedly UFO contactees who say there were given an important message to spread!

 

[Mars]

Prophets are an entirely Abrahamic concept.

Proper psychosis for sure. And no, Oracles or Magi where/ are something entirely different from a "prophet".

 

[Lightmaker5]

To explain it simply you couldn't see the future because just by seeing the future you would change the past. Because your actions would be defined by the future you saw. You'd be stuck in an infinite paradox loop. It is not possible to see the future. These people never saw anything. They only won or lost the bet. If it came true it is a coincidence. You see everything you do in this world, every inch you walk. A simple look at a person would change events in the entire world just in a few days. Here a simple example. If you didn't see the future you would look at the person in the store today and this person would notice that also. Now this little distraction affects this person's next moves. Now imagine you saw the future, you're so distracted by what you saw in the future, you did not look at the person in the store. And that person never noticed anything since you never looked at that person. Do you see the chain reaction of changed events? This chain reaction of choices expands in a matter of days around the entire world. So just by looking at somebody or not can change the future dramatically. Like for example we have a space ship in 200 years or we have no space ship in 200 years. And that only because of a simple look.

This is the simplest explanation for a paradox. You cannot see the future.

 

[Mars]

To explain it simply you couldn't see the future because just by seeing the future you would change the past. Because your actions would be defined by the future you saw. You'd be stuck in an infinite paradox loop. It is not possible to see the future. These people never saw anything. They only won or lost the bet. If it came true it is a coincidence. You see everything you do in this world, every inch you walk. A simple look at a person would change events in the entire world just in a few days. Here a simple example. If you didn't see the future you would look at the person in the store today and this person would notice that also. Now this little distraction affects this person's next moves. Now imagine you saw the future, you're so distracted by what you saw in the future, you did not look at the person in the store. And that person never noticed anything since you never looked at that person. Do you see the chain reaction of changed events? This chain reaction of choices expands in a matter of days around the entire world. So just by looking at somebody or not can change the future dramatically. Like for example we have a space ship in 200 years or we have no space ship in 200 years. And that only because of a simple look.

This is the simplest explanation for a paradox. You cannot see the future.

Thats some reddit tier reply. Of course you can see the future. And no there is no paradox in doing so either. Or acting against it. A lot of Hollywood logic in that reply as well, next you tell me you don't watch those movies.

 

[Lightmaker5]

Thats some reddit tier reply. Of course you can see the future. And no there is no paradox in doing so either. Or acting against it. A lot of Hollywood logic in that reply as well, next you tell me you don't watch those movies.

Why don't you get this simple paradox explanation. It's as simple as it gets. Even if you would choose to not to say a word after you saw the future you would still change the past. Like I said, your life choices would be altered by what you have seen in the future. That is the main point of my post. You wouldn't see it because you'd constantly change the past. Because for the future world you would be in the past. This is a simple paradox. All people who saw something that would happen in the future are either deluded or are straight liars.

 

[Morell]

I agree with @Mars. Though it does sound logically, this is not how reality and time works. When you imagine or even see the future, you just see it, you do not participate in it. Also it's only possible future until it is reality. In fact seeing and wishing it can help you change the probabilities to make it more probably to happen.

 

[Shalux]

I agree with @Mars and @Morell about seeing the future. The nature of time is not clear at all. Granted, there is a clear view of it that allows us to be functional and have an everyday life; it works well. But who knows what the real thing is?
To make an analogy, gravitational theory allows us to make plane fly and send satellites in space for example; yet it does not apply under all conditions (very high speeds or very strong gravitational fields). A witch could be able to create some of these conditions for time!
I like to think that time has a profund nature, opening a vast field of possibilities.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

But what about true prophets? Is there really such a kind? I assume that there are true prophets, because what else can prove to us existence of spiritual, if not people having spiritual experiences? Our sciences are unlikely to explore spiritual anytime soon. (and thanks the darkness for that!) But since future is in constant flow, prophecies about the future are always on the fence, always there is chance that they won't come to pass, because humanity always changes...

And what if any person can be a true prophet? Everyone who is intensively (and perhaps long enough) on a spiritual or magic path , should be able to be deeply enough in contact with spirits/gods to get teachings and/or messages delivered. It is something people can learn if they are open minded enough to learn. However it is perhaps like music, there are people highly talented and other less talented. But people in general don't know that it is possible and that is were the religion building around those persons comes in. They don't believe it is possible for them self so they start to believe that another person is luckier so that person has to be the one with the good messages.

 

[Morell]

And what if any person can be a true prophet? Everyone who is intensively (and perhaps long enough) on a spiritual or magic path , should be able to be deeply enough in contact with spirits/gods to get teachings and/or messages delivered. It is something people can learn if they are open minded enough to learn. However it is perhaps like music, there are people highly talented and other less talented. But people in general don't know that it is possible and that is were the religion building around those persons comes in. They don't believe it is possible for them self so they start to believe that another person is luckier so that person has to be the one with the good messages.

When you have to work hard for something that others achieve easily, while you barely achieve anything... well of course they are the lucky ones.