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Samael the black

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Is Samael the black, a spirit from "Qlippoth, kaballah and Goetic magick " truly a mask of Asmoday?

Is alfpunias truly a son and sword of Asmoday?

Your thoughts?
 

stalkinghyena

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In my view he occupies both a place on the Qlippothic tree and on the tree of life.
I believe that Kamael, the Archangel of Geburah, is actually a variant of Samael, which would be the Qliphoth of Hod. The latter usual translates to "The Venom of God". Some hold he is the counterpart of Lilith.

I consider him "Gods holy darkness"

Maybe not far off? In some Gnostic scriptures this is one of the names of the Demiurge, aka Yaltabaoth, Saklas, etc. He is the "abomination", an abortion of the Sophia Aeon who tried to create her own world without the consent of her consort. He was depicted as a lion headed serpent who swam alone in the darkness, not knowing his origins. Then he becomes the OT God of Genesis, creates the wicked Archons (planets) and declares himself the One True God, at which point his mother shouts from Beyond "You lie, Saklas!"
 
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I believe that Kamael, the Archangel of Geburah, is actually a variant of Samael, which would be the Qliphoth of Hod. The latter usual translates to "The Venom of God". Some hold he is the counterpart of Lilith.



Maybe not far off? In some Gnostic scriptures this is one of the names of the Demiurge, aka Yaltabaoth, Saklas, etc. He is the "abomination", an abortion of the Sophia Aeon who tried to create her own world without the consent of her consort. He was depicted as a lion headed serpent who swam alone in the darkness, not knowing his origins. Then he becomes the OT God of Genesis, creates the wicked Archons (planets) and declares himself the One True God, at which point his mother shouts from Beyond "You lie, Saklas!"
Kamael as I understand it was a deliberate mistranslation of samael by Mathers to keep his students safe from accessing samaels darkside.
 

stalkinghyena

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i think it's more a question of taste because he is all of those things, because people believe he is.
Sure enough. Everyone is going to have a personal identification that does not equate to those of others, even in the same paradigm.

like i said i think the occult an art rather than science
I tend that way, though I think one can be scientific in approach. The "science" aspect often advertised can be traced on the one hand to a medieval conception of general knowledge and on the other to the Victorian magical attempts legitimize certain occult philosophies as well as compete with the more materialist progressive and Darwinistic attitudes of their time.

Kamael as I understand it was a deliberate mistranslation of samael by Mathers to keep his students safe from accessing samaels darkside.
The name Kamael goes at least back to Pseudo-Dyonisius, and I believe he appears in Agrippa as an angel of Mars. However, Mathers like to play games, so there might be a formula or even a booby trap there.
I have sometimes wondered if the identity of both Kamael and Samael might actually be traced to the Egyptian God Seth in his strange duality as defender of Ra against Apep and god of darkness/rage/storm/sexual perversion/foreigners. This might tie a tidy knot with the Gnostic appropriation.
 

Yazata

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Fair enough guess what I read wasn't true
I don't know. It's just convenient that it can be transcribed both ways and the translator can choose depending on what philosophy or idea he wants to push.
I don't have experience with Samael but I wrote somewhere else on here how a different spelling of his name translates to "the left hand"
 
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I don't know. It's just convenient that it can be transcribed both ways and the translator can choose depending on what philosophy or idea he wants to push.
I don't have experience with Samael but I wrote somewhere else on here how a different spelling of his name translates to "the left hand"
That's actually a good point, interesting that it can be translated as either depending on your purpose or philosophy
 

Roma

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Kamael as I understand it was a deliberate mistranslation

Many years ago I was having lunch on the lawn with some friends when an entity approached and told me he was "the angel of divine justice" and spelt his name as Khamael. So I went inside and looked up Davidson's Dictionary of Angels and there he was.

He appeared years later at Glastonbury Tor, turning my light sword into a meat cleaver.
 

Frater Dag

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Why don't you evoke him and ask him yourself? He is very approachable from my own personal experience. I have evoked him many times in the last 10 years.
 
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Why don't you evoke him and ask him yourself? He is very approachable from my own personal experience. I have evoked him many times in the last 10 years.
I only know of one other person that has experience with him. This is a fascinating entity I may just do that.
 

league

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i think it's more a question of taste because he is all of those things, because people believe he is.

like i said i think the occult an art rather than science
I agree with JK, the Occult is art not a science, no book for written rules and guidelines, its more a belief and faith in what we see. So anything can occupy space of something else if we can see and learn from it.
 
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Can spirits respond to whatever name they please? How to test the true nature of a spirit?
You can use the Hebrew letters:
For Memory - Saturn - Tav
For Construction - Jupiter - Kaph
For Anger/impatience - Mars - Peh
For Vanity - Sol - Resh
For Pleasure - Venus - Daleth
For Imagination - Mercury - Beth
For Wandering Thoughts - Luna - Gimel

These are the seven Wandering Lords.
In your minds eye for the use of one, clearly picture the letter in your minds eye.
To test a spirit based on these, see the superimposed letter upon the spirit.

Or right relationships.
 
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