Self-Transformation and the Transfer Problem

[HoldAll]

I've read somewhere that there was a phenomenon called 'transfer problem' by psychologists. Example: You learn a new relaxation method and over time, you become calmer and calmer - but only for the period of time during which you actually practise it; this increased calmness doesn't translate into real life, you're as tense as ever before all day long. Or you perform the LBRP, the Bornless One, etc., feel on top of the world - but do these rituals change you on a fundamental and profound level, too? Or you invoke a powerful godform and feel omipotent but in real life, you're just the poor shmuck as always.

Self-transformation has always been a major obsession of mine. Like so many people before, I've found that willpower alone just doesn't work, there has to be some emotional shift involved as well. I've only ever changed (or become 'wiser') because of grave failures, catastrophes and severe disruptions in my life, and then not always. So can magic actually change and transform you? Am I chasing a phantom here doing all these exercises?

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

It honestly depends on who you study.

 

[KjEno186]

I've found that willpower alone just doesn't work

It's like diet and exercise. You can read lots of books about different diets; watch a bunch of videos showing different exercises. In my personal experience, two weeks is the limit of willpower. That is, if I get enthused enough reading about a diet program of some kind, I will follow it for about two weeks before I find my enthusiasm has waned, at which point I start making excuses about the routine. I'll make exceptions which quickly devolve into my old habits all over again.

Or I'll take up some form of exercise like running. This is even worse, in my opinion. I'm out of shape to begin with and overdo things right off the bat, resulting in soreness or an injury that forces me to take a week off from the next planned run. By the time I recover, either I repeat my excessive efforts because I'm impatient, or I have lost my initial enthusiasm to continue.

So, despite my initial enthusiasm, I remain out of shape and overweight. I blame myself for not having enough "willpower." I only allow just enough time for my efforts to fail. I attempt to do too much, too soon, because neither mind nor body are ready yet.

What does this have to do with magic? (BTW, when I say "you," I'm not making it personally directed to anyone in particular.)

Your physical body is the manifestation of all of your various subtle bodies, for one thing. Your organs and cells all have their own 'intelligences' which oversee their operations. YOU are the god at the top of this collective body of 'beings' all working together to experience and interact with the universe. So, for example, YOU feel thirsty and say to your body, "Here, this is 1 liter of Coca Cola." Your organs now have to deal as intelligently as they can with a huge influx of refined sugar. Your liver makes fat from the fructose, among other decidedly unwanted effects that come from drinking junk. YOU, as the god of your body feel hungry, so you eat a bag of donuts. Again, your organs attempt to deal with the adverse effects from eating refined carbs and other junk. You can imagine what the situation will be after a decade or three of eating junk. You have manifested an overweight and out-of-shape body! Part of the blame is, of course, other people's magic taking advantage of your inherent (genetically programmed) desires for sweet taste and fast carbs in order to make profit from addictive, cheap junk food. But you yourself put the junk into your mouth!

Now, think about what a 'diet' of mainstream news media, Hollywood movies, television, and other junk pop culture has done to your mind. You're mentally out of shape, so you read books on magic, try a few things here and there, and expect something will make your life better right away... There's a reason why systems such as Bardon's seem so hard to begin with, even though it's simply a matter of meditating. Think of that meditation as the equivalent of walking a kilometer. You want to run a marathon eventually, but you can barely walk a kilometer right now. You want to use magic to make effective change in your life, but you can barely meditate for ten minutes right now.

I don't know if any of this helps, but it seemed important to write it down. Believe me, I wish it was easier too. Then again, we tend to take the easy things for granted, don't we?

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Yes, self transformation is possible, and we all learn at our individual pace and timeframe.
Nobody will cheer you on by much, so you eliminate doubt and be your own cheerleader.
IIH or Quareia are probably the best systems for self transformation.

Post automatically merged: Aug 10, 2023

Also, start a journal here. Some of the more experienced follow us, and can make recommendations in your journal for you to follow up on. In fact, every newbie or neophyte or visitor should start one and update daily.

 

[Lemongrass00]

I've read somewhere that there was a phenomenon called 'transfer problem' by psychologists. Example: You learn a new relaxation method and over time, you become calmer and calmer - but only for the period of time during which you actually practise it; this increased calmness doesn't translate into real life, you're as tense as ever before all day long. Or you perform the LBRP, the Bornless One, etc., feel on top of the world - but do these rituals change you on a fundamental and profound level, too? Or you invoke a powerful godform and feel omipotent but in real life, you're just the poor shmuck as always.

Self-transformation has always been a major obsession of mine. Like so many people before, I've found that willpower alone just doesn't work, there has to be some emotional shift involved as well. I've only ever changed (or become 'wiser') because of grave failures, catastrophes and severe disruptions in my life, and then not always. So can magic actually change and transform you? Am I chasing a phantom here doing all these exercises?

So willpower alone definitely can cause self transformation, but it is more useful in my opinion to supplement it with a system such as Kabbalah which attempts to break down and compartmentalize certain aspects of consciousness using symbols, (think elemental Magick for instance), and allows a much easier and clearer path and starting point.

 

[KjEno186]

So willpower alone definitely can cause self transformation

Yes, it can. Young people have energy to spare, but older people do not. I'm generalizing here as every individual has different circumstances. I'm reminded of the words of Don Webb:

The body/mind/heart complex has tides. As you will learn in your practice, magic is powered by four forces—bodily energy, emotional passion, intellectual energy, and transpersonal energy. Each has a source and a cost, but at age twenty-three (give or take a few years) these forces are all at maximum. Your health and vitality are good—and need little to no maintenance.​

​

John Michael Greer has often related (and had people confirm) that one hits a wall of resistance at some point in their basic practice. The only way forward is to keep at it no matter what. It only takes half an hour to perform ten minutes of meditation, an LBRP, and a Middle Pillar (and record a journal entry in a notebook). You'll find that simple, consistent effort outweighs any grand plan that gets abandoned after a couple of weeks when it comes to long term results.

 

[HoldAll]

It's like diet and exercise. You can read lots of books about different diets; watch a bunch of videos showing different exercises. In my personal experience, two weeks is the limit of willpower. That is, if I get enthused enough reading about a diet program of some kind, I will follow it for about two weeks before I find my enthusiasm has waned, at which point I start making excuses about the routine. I'll make exceptions which quickly devolve into my old habits all over again.

Or I'll take up some form of exercise like running. This is even worse, in my opinion. I'm out of shape to begin with and overdo things right off the bat, resulting in soreness or an injury that forces me to take a week off from the next planned run. By the time I recover, either I repeat my excessive efforts because I'm impatient, or I have lost my initial enthusiasm to continue.

So, despite my initial enthusiasm, I remain out of shape and overweight. I blame myself for not having enough "willpower." I only allow just enough time for my efforts to fail. I attempt to do too much, too soon, because neither mind nor body are ready yet.

In my mind, willpower alone just doesn't cut it. What I have always dreamed of are changes driven by emotion. For example: instead of making a purely intellectual and reasonable decision not to eat junkfood anymore, you become genuinely, viscerally disgusted by it without any prior mental resolutions. Or that exercise gradually becomes attractive or even sexy for no particular reason while sitting at home in front of the TV or computer begins to feel stupid and boring. The food industry doesn't convince you to buy their ultra-processed stuff by means of cool reason either. They seduce you, they play with your feelings.

Or "improving motivation" - it just doesn't work when your emotions refuse to cooperate. You can force yourself to do something for some time but then it all breaks down, like you described. So how to make your feelings get behind your conscious decisions? That's the million dollar question and one, as a newbie, I am trying to solve with magic.

Post automatically merged: Aug 10, 2023

Yes, self transformation is possible, and we all learn at our individual pace and timeframe.
Nobody will cheer you on by much, so you eliminate doubt and be your own cheerleader.
IIH or Quareia are probably the best systems for self transformation.

Post automatically merged: Aug 10, 2023

Also, start a journal here. Some of the more experienced follow us, and can make recommendations in your journal for you to follow up on. In fact, every newbie or neophyte or visitor should start one and update daily.

Thanks for the suggestions but I'm already a compulsive journaller. And don't get me started on Bardon, his stern-uncle style of writing alone put me off magic for years. As part of my daily regimen, I do Damon Brand's "Success Magic" instead:

Book Report - Damon Brand - Success Magick: The Hidden Power of Enochian Rituals

Some have called it "the most spiritual book by the Gallery of Magick" and that's true in a sense - it's not result-oriented, rather a year-long program of self-transformation. And strictly speaking it's not really about success either, for example about developing more self-confidence or being...

wizardforums.com

In the mental shape I'm in, I couldn't take any stricter or more arduous exercises, so I'm shooting for the cumulative effects of softer stuff right now.

Post automatically merged: Aug 10, 2023

Yes, it can. Young people have energy to spare, but older people do not. I'm generalizing here as every individual has different circumstances. I'm reminded of the words of Don Webb:

The body/mind/heart complex has tides. As you will learn in your practice, magic is powered by four forces—bodily energy, emotional passion, intellectual energy, and transpersonal energy. Each has a source and a cost, but at age twenty-three (give or take a few years) these forces are all at maximum. Your health and vitality are good—and need little to no maintenance.​

​

John Michael Greer has often related (and had people confirm) that one hits a wall of resistance at some point in their basic practice. The only way forward is to keep at it no matter what. It only takes half an hour to perform ten minutes of meditation, an LBRP, and a Middle Pillar (and record a journal entry in a notebook). You'll find that simple, consistent effort outweighs any grand plan that gets abandoned after a couple of weeks when it comes to long term results.

I hear you. Right now, only my innate mulish stubbornness keeps me going at the moment, not pure spiritual motivation or some other virtue. Over at reddit some people have compared performing the LBRP to brushing your teeth, you just do it every day for the rest of your life - good comparison.

Post automatically merged: Aug 10, 2023

So willpower alone definitely can cause self transformation, but it is more useful in my opinion to supplement it with a system such as Kabbalah which attempts to break down and compartmentalize certain aspects of consciousness using symbols, (think elemental Magick for instance), and allows a much easier and clearer path and starting point.

Good idea! I have been thinking a lot about Yesod/Svadishthana/emotions/water lately, how I was lacking that element in my astral makeup... perhaps I should do some elemental work.

 

[Lemongrass00]

In my mind, willpower alone just doesn't cut it. What I have always dreamed of are changes driven by emotion.

Emotional energy will wade, only through discipline to keep doing your practices, even when there is zero emotional energy backed behind it some days, is caused by will power alone.

Post automatically merged: Aug 10, 2023

Good idea! I have been thinking a lot about Yesod/Svadishthana/emotions/water lately, how I was lacking that element in my astral makeup... perhaps I should do some elemental work.

Also, I think that is a good idea. I am personally working through the four elements and am on water currently myself.

although I personally do not think of Yesod as quite the element of water since it is not Malkuth, I understand the correspondence you are making.

 

[Taudefindi]

So can magic actually change and transform you?

I think it's less that magic changes you, but that you make yourself become better in order to learn about magic.The goal doesn't change you, it's the path to it that does.

It's like diet and exercise.

With those I figured out that the best way to go, at least to me, wasn't to seek motivation(as motivation is fleeting) to do it but rather seek to slowly change my lifestyle in order to adapt it to become something that is more in-tune with the type of life I want to live.That doesn't mean that there aren't times where I go "I don't wanna do it today", but by making changes and making them slowly I get used to them and they stop seeming like "such a chore" to do.

So willpower alone definitely can cause self transformation

Willpower is 50%, the other 50% is "taking action", and it's the latter that most people tend to forget or do poorly.

 

[Challis]

I meditate often, but lack the privacy to do LBRPs or use black crystal, and often forget the enochian incantation, because its angelic. I am also probably mispronouncing every thing and thusly struggle to perform magic. I have been taught we can visualise everything, and although this is tough, day by day I make effort. To the magi, is this sufficient practice? I have read entire books on this subject but have no idea what an aether looks like.

 

[Lemongrass00]

I meditate often, but lack the privacy to do LBRPs or use black crystal, and often forget the enochian incantation, because its angelic. I am also probably mispronouncing every thing and thusly struggle to perform magic. I have been taught we can visualise everything, and although this is tough, day by day I make effort. To the magi, is this sufficient practice? I have read entire books on this subject but have no idea what an aether looks like.

You should learn to lucid dream and AP. If you cannot do rituals here, then you can visit your spirits in their own realm.

 

[Amur]

I've read somewhere that there was a phenomenon called 'transfer problem' by psychologists. Example: You learn a new relaxation method and over time, you become calmer and calmer - but only for the period of time during which you actually practise it; this increased calmness doesn't translate into real life, you're as tense as ever before all day long. Or you perform the LBRP, the Bornless One, etc., feel on top of the world - but do these rituals change you on a fundamental and profound level, too? Or you invoke a powerful godform and feel omipotent but in real life, you're just the poor shmuck as always.

Self-transformation has always been a major obsession of mine. Like so many people before, I've found that willpower alone just doesn't work, there has to be some emotional shift involved as well. I've only ever changed (or become 'wiser') because of grave failures, catastrophes and severe disruptions in my life, and then not always. So can magic actually change and transform you? Am I chasing a phantom here doing all these exercises?

Living life in the Way, leads you to Perfection.

Post automatically merged: Aug 11, 2023

To truly transform is also to take action, because action is what defines us and our borderies so to take or not take action defines who we are as ourselves.

 

[Konsciencia]

I've read somewhere that there was a phenomenon called 'transfer problem' by psychologists. Example: You learn a new relaxation method and over time, you become calmer and calmer - but only for the period of time during which you actually practise it; this increased calmness doesn't translate into real life, you're as tense as ever before all day long. Or you perform the LBRP, the Bornless One, etc., feel on top of the world - but do these rituals change you on a fundamental and profound level, too? Or you invoke a powerful godform and feel omipotent but in real life, you're just the poor shmuck as always.

Self-transformation has always been a major obsession of mine. Like so many people before, I've found that willpower alone just doesn't work, there has to be some emotional shift involved as well. I've only ever changed (or become 'wiser') because of grave failures, catastrophes and severe disruptions in my life, and then not always. So can magic actually change and transform you? Am I chasing a phantom here doing all these exercises?

I can say that it all has to do with the shift. I know, because I'm going though it at the moment. I am now transitioning from the "Dark Night of the Soul" thing.

 

[Challis]

You should learn to lucid dream and AP. If you cannot do rituals here, then you can visit your spirits in their own realm.

Thank you, I will put more effort into dreaming lucid.

 

[Roma]

The human has bodies on various planes: physical, emotional, mental, buddhic, atmic .....

Each plane is comprised of subplanes such as: solids, liquids, gases, plasma, etheric

As the human learns to refine and manage its bodies it discards dense subplane material that it no longer uses.

Thus the human lightbody progressively does not resonate with the heavy vibes of its surroundings.

While the human is getting its act together, its experience can wobble between higher and lower experiences.

It is useful to be selective when choosing friends/places/thoughts/lifestyles

 

[kidbuu]

In my mind, willpower alone just doesn't cut it. What I have always dreamed of are changes driven by emotion. For example: instead of making a purely intellectual and reasonable decision not to eat junkfood anymore, you become genuinely, viscerally disgusted by it without any prior mental resolutions. Or that exercise gradually becomes attractive or even sexy for no particular reason while sitting at home in front of the TV or computer begins to feel stupid and boring. The food industry doesn't convince you to buy their ultra-processed stuff by means of cool reason either. They seduce you, they play with your feelings.

Or "improving motivation" - it just doesn't work when your emotions refuse to cooperate. You can force yourself to do something for some time but then it all breaks down, like you described. So how to make your feelings get behind your conscious decisions? That's the million dollar question and one, as a newbie, I am trying to solve with magic.

Post automatically merged: Aug 10, 2023

Thanks for the suggestions but I'm already a compulsive journaller. And don't get me started on Bardon, his stern-uncle style of writing alone put me off magic for years. As part of my daily regimen, I do Damon Brand's "Success Magic" instead:

Book Report - Damon Brand - Success Magick: The Hidden Power of Enochian Rituals

Some have called it "the most spiritual book by the Gallery of Magick" and that's true in a sense - it's not result-oriented, rather a year-long program of self-transformation. And strictly speaking it's not really about success either, for example about developing more self-confidence or being...

wizardforums.com

In the mental shape I'm in, I couldn't take any stricter or more arduous exercises, so I'm shooting for the cumulative effects of softer stuff right now.

Post automatically merged: Aug 10, 2023

I hear you. Right now, only my innate mulish stubbornness keeps me going at the moment, not pure spiritual motivation or some other virtue. Over at reddit some people have compared performing the LBRP to brushing your teeth, you just do it every day for the rest of your life - good comparison.

Post automatically merged: Aug 10, 2023

Good idea! I have been thinking a lot about Yesod/Svadishthana/emotions/water lately, how I was lacking that element in my astral makeup... perhaps I should do some elemental work.

I second to what you said about the food industry playing with your emotions. And it’s not just the fast food industry.

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[Jackson]

You learn a new relaxation method and over time, you become calmer and calmer - but only for the period of time during which you actually practise it; this increased calmness doesn't translate into real life, you're as tense as ever before all day long. Or you invoke a powerful godform and feel omipotent but in real life, you're just the poor shmuck as always.

Calmness can be invoked for any desired period of time and you can easily make a minimum of ten thousand dollars dicking around in temp work as a homeless person for a few months.

Post automatically merged: Aug 22, 2023

But then again, I don't entirely comprehend the point made. It's like diet and exercise. If you eat meat potatoes and drop ice cream you will lose thirty pounds.

 

[pixel_fortune]

What I have always dreamed of are changes driven by emotion. For example: instead of making a purely intellectual and reasonable decision not to eat junkfood anymore, you become genuinely, viscerally disgusted by it without any prior mental resolutions.

So, the intervention for binge eating that currently has the strongest evidence base does this (not as strongly as you're describing, but that's the effect, to make you "naturally" avoidant towards a food)

It works food by food, so it's a lot more effective if you have a small number of challenging temptations - it won't work on "all junk food I encounter from now on". (I don't think you'd have to do "chocolate cake" and "buttercream cake" separately though, just "cake" would be fine)

What's interesting is it looks a hell of a lot like a piece of folk magic.

Anyway your post was pretty old - and you might have just been using junk food as an example - so not sure if you have any interest in this, but let me know if you want me to share it

 

[HoldAll]

So, the intervention for binge eating that currently has the strongest evidence base does this (not as strongly as you're describing, but that's the effect, to make you "naturally" avoidant towards a food)

It works food by food, so it's a lot more effective if you have a small number of challenging temptations - it won't work on "all junk food I encounter from now on". (I don't think you'd have to do "chocolate cake" and "buttercream cake" separately though, just "cake" would be fine)

What's interesting is it looks a hell of a lot like a piece of folk magic.

Anyway your post was pretty old - and you might have just been using junk food as an example - so not sure if you have any interest in this, but let me know if you want me to share it

Junk food was just an example, I haven't eaten that crap for a long time, same goes for sweet stuff including sodas.

Looking back, all the posters were right, esp. @Taudefindi: "I think it's less that magic changes you, but that you make yourself become better in order to learn about magic.The goal doesn't change you, it's the path to it that does." It was the daily practice (esp. meditation) that has begun to change me, I don't think about transformation as the end goal so much anymore. I've realized now that I'm in no fit state to conduct a proper effective ritual yet, I need to acquire more of that calm concentration & presence first.

 

[pixel_fortune]

I noticed that pretty much every good habit has almost been like a decision made for me that shifts me into a world where I do that thing

Like I tried so many little tricks and routines to try and get me to work out t regularly, and then one day I woke up and it was like the decision had been made for me and it was just "that's a thing I do now, I go to the gym regularly", in my head, without any struggle of resistance.

What I'd love to know is whether the years of pushing and tricks and routines helps at all - if they are what build up to the decision being made seemingly without my input - or if they're a complete waste of time and I just need to learn how to get into that "other" headspace directly