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Working in a Grimorium Verum frame with one of the spirits under Satanachia (sealed clay doll-baby style poppet). Kept it soft so far, accepting the target feels some pressure until they reach out.
My concern is blowback on myself. I already open/close with LBRP + Star Ruby, keep Hekate as guardian, and put a non-return clause in the command ("no harm to me or mine, the fire does not return on me").
I want to add a dedicated protective effigy of MYSELF, a clay figure with my own concordance, sealed with protective material, consecrated as a guardian to absorb/deflect the rebound.
For those who've actually run harsh work:
1. What do you seal into a self-protection poppet : which psalms / names / seals actually hold against backlash? (thinking Ps 91, the divine names, Michael, a PGM phylactery)
2. Do you keep the guardian effigy separate from the working poppet, or is that superstition?
3. Reversal element a mirror/foil to send it back, or is grounding it to earth cleaner?
Not after morality takes just practical protection from experienced hands. Thanks to all
I don't know if you heard or read this somewhere or how you came to that idea, but I think creating a doll of yourself to act as a deflector sounds like an invitation for trouble. The tinfoil surrounding the target's doll does sound like a good idea though, so that all they can see is their own reflection, and anything they might want to send out is mirrored back.
First, rock on, Aglovol! I am honestly thrilled folks are checking the GV out.
Hmmmm. Let's just jump in. Just off the top of my head:
Let me say there are many avenues to approach the GV. I do recommend not trying to "fix" the grimoire just yet. You can personalize it later, once contact is made. (I should say this, but to be honest, I'm very loose. But I learned my lessons the hard way and have been told by them to tighten up a bit for the next stage of the work.)
The GV is a rite of contact. Once they have responded it is up to you carry on the relationship. You can call them for one-off workings, but the GV expects you to eventually form long-term allies. This look very "witchy" as they are then always around. Helping you, protecting you.
The GV has protection built into its formal protocols. You can simplify them, but that is asking for trouble. Lower daimons are not gods and they are not omniscient. The GV protocols (for the class of daimon that responds to it) are how they learn who their friends and allies are. And many of them can't read your mind, so it's best to speak commands clearly and out loud. Whatever their reality, I would not assume that they can read you mind , unless you are willing to invite them into your mind on a permanent basis. I do not enjoy that so I do not. I keep only one teaching ally who can speak in my head. But they all are allowed to communicate directly in the case of emergencies s or special time-sensitive opportinuites.
Can I ask what your internalized assumptions are? Since you have Hekate as an ally, then you are probably not working in a TradCath mythic framework. Check out Jake Stratton-Kent's 'Goetic Liturgy' and internalize Hecate as a "higher" manifestation of Astaroth. Jake Stratton-Kent's Thelemic Greco-Egyptian framework does work, and is currently very popular among the Anglophone GV guys that have sprung up recently. Good stuff.
The Catholic worldview of the GV is much closer to the Greek daimons than the Protestant demons. Your internal beliefs and expectations will greatly color how they appear to you. Even if you don't believe they are pagan gods (and I do not), taking on that viewpoint can temper them. Working TradCath is working "hot" - and save that for when you want to heat them up for an attack against a hard target. Heat is good, just work up to it.
Not sure how to say this, but please do try to relax. All this need for protection is a manifestation of fear. There is need for caution, but fear is not advisable. I don't want to make the argument they are totally safe, but please try to relax. Neoplatonism can help here, to see all things as an expression of the One.
You can keep up all the protections, but just interally"tweak" your framwork a little to see them better seen as protections against the "little bads" that live in the Underworld. Do watch out for them. The protections are more against the diablos / djabs / kiumbas than the GV daimons. Avoid anger which attracks them. (Or whatever is "actually" going on - as if we can ever know - for why that appears to be the case.)
From Julio: "Readings of Psalm 51 in its entirety on the hour of noon and midnight on all three days are advisable to eliminate the risk of interference from any minor spirits that may pass by the area."
Once you have a GV daimon ally, they will guard you as well. But this is a relationship that needs maintenance. Honestly, the daimons can ignore all protections, and nothing will stop them if you piss them off. Not ritual knives, circles, psalms, LBRPs, seriously.These are not little astral gremlins scared by puffs of light. But they are NOT evil. Don't give them a reason to be pissed and ALWAYS keep your word with them. I made that mistake early on and bear some serioous scars.
Pick up a pendulum to communicate withthem if you do not have in Vodu what is called konesans (connaissance) or psychic knowing. Modern occultist spend way WAY too much time and effrort in psychic trinting, , which is like doing cardio to prep for bodybuilding . Helps is measured doses, but is not really the show here. Be sure to negotatite. And when the deliver, you must do also. Keep your word.
The protocols of the GV have protection built into them. I didn't work with a circle after I have an ally, but it is part of the formal protoocls. After you have an ally you can include one to give yourself some psychic distance. Spend some time meditating on what a circle means as a Platonic form.
OK, the main issue, as far as i can tell, with the GV daimons (and the Lesser Key daimons, it seems):
There is an issue with the daimons acting as Orphic Neoplatonic Buddhas (in my view) and burning the Titanic "soot" off your soul. I have experienced it. JSK did. Matt Hadfield did. I think Rob Rider Hill did too. I wish he would pop in here and clarify what he meant about making it all 'less traumatic.'
If I was starting out I would 'cool' them down upfront as you get to know them and enage in interdimensional diplomancy. Give them spring water (which is underworld water) mixed with honey up front. When you want them to do work, heat them up by giving them alcohol, maybe coffee if your allies accept it. And then hange your 'stance' to be more aggressive, sharp, and staccato and less soothing and entreating.
Afterwards, take a cooling bath of the three Holy herbs of the GV. Take a cue from brujeria and add cucumber and chickweed. This about restoring energetic balance. Intense spiritual work can leave your energy "hot," agitated, and vulnerable.
Some others to try:
Chickweed / Cundeamor: This is a gentle but powerful plant valued for its cooling, soothing, and restorative qualities. It's a remedy when emotions or energy after a working leave you feeling off-balance, overheated, or tense.
Aloe Vera / Sabila, a classic cooling plant often used to soothe and calm. Its watery nature is soothing of irritated spiritual energy.
Lavender / Lavanda, to restore a sense of peace and balance after intense work.
It is my contention that most of the issues come from being out of balance. Take a spiritual bath. You will be glad you did.
Taking a clue from Vodou I THINK we can tell them to chill out a bit. Tell them verbally, not to touch... then name things you like, job, realtionships, parents, etc. Chrage them - verbally and firmly - to keep their claws off of them. But also, this IS apsital pracie int he end. Magic alwasy touches us and changes us. The Underrolds intelligences are justy a bit more dramatic about it.
Post automatically merged:
Oh. Spend time getting on the good side of the Three Chiefs. Offerings, etc. Avoid Beelzebuth until later. I also advise starting with a lower demon. who are plenty powerful. JSK recommended calling Elelogap first as a cleansing and cool water daimon. Everyone goes straight to Lucifer, but you will go further if you take advantage of the structure of the Infernal Hierarchy. Do not directly comjure the Three Chiefs, not at first. They are not "work spirits" (well, they can be, but not yet). They are for authority (permission) in calling the "lower" daimons.
For context: I'm working through one of the lesser officers under Satanachia specifically, not going near the Chiefs directly, good to hear that lines up with what you and JSK recommend.
The line that hit hardest: "the daimons can ignore all protections, nothing stops them if you anger them... always keep your word." That reframes the whole defensive setup for me, less "wall against the daimon" and more "filter against whatever else might be sniffing around while I work." Makes a lot more sense that way.
One thing I couldn't quite parse, you mention "the three sacred herbs of the GV" before listing chickweed/aloe/lavender as extras to add. What are those three base ones? Couldn't find that spelled out in my copy of the grimoire. Picking up lavender either way. Appreciate you taking the time to write all that out.
You got it going on, Agloval! Respect! Sounds like your intuition is on it.
The GV holy herbs are Mint (Spearmint, and not the other mints ), Rosemary, and Sweet Marjoram. I swear growing these turns you into a gardener.
Please pardon some personal gnosis :
I feel when we see what looks very pious to us in the grimoires, the turning to God (i.e. The Divine, the Numious) - it's not so much about commanding, they seem to get something from it. Some coolness / blessing, grace. Maybe I internalized Hermeticism and Catholic Marian Mysticism too much, but when they see a divinized human, they see the Transcendent Reality through us. We seem to be able to channel dimensions hidden from them.
But that may also be me being very Pro Team Human. The pure animst view of finding "right relation" also works here, but I also feel we humans are the fulcrum of reality. In Vodou it is said we are given none of the power but all the authority. (All power comes from God in their mythic framework, and all spirits bow before God.) And perhaps that authority is often one more of love than power and anger, I have found. Took a while for me to see this. Whatever the ultimate nature of The Mystery, I have not had any issues since I came to see things more this way. But i also keep my word and don't act like a tourist.
