"Sinking the qi" from Daoist internal alchemy

[oregano]

Recently I have been experimenting with Daoist physical mudras and meditation practices with the aim of "sinking the chi" from the upper dantians into the lower dantian, or the "sea of qi". From what I understand of Daoist internal alchemy and a lot of other Traditional Chinese Medicine, this is a good starter goal.

So far I can definitely say that my lower dantian feels more full, and I can feel the tension leaving my chest (the so called process of "emptying the chest"). As the qi leaves my upper dantian (the "third eye"), I notice less discursive thoughts as well, and less anxiety and deliberation over inconsequential things. There is also a feeling of general wellness, and less frequent moments of feelings of unwellness.

I'm just wondering if anyone here has walked this kind of path before. What should I expect? When should I consider this part of this kind of path to be completed, if ever? What is, in your estimation, the next part of this path? What are some pitfalls in this kind of path? (I've heard of "qi deviation" or "qi sickness", and so of course would prefer to avoid that)

 

[ewiz]

I can't really give good advice for all of your questions, but I can offer some input. From what it sounds like you're doing, the effects you're having match what you should be experiencing quite well. Drawing qi to the lower dantian is all about balance and grounding. The trouble I think people run into, especially when they talk about sickness, is when they are trying to force these movements of qi. If you try forcing things, you can end up with all sorts of unseen tension and blockages, which manifests in the opposite ways (insomnia, anxiety, headaches, irrational emotions etc.) I don't know how common this is when using hand seals, because I have mostly focused on standing exercises to this end, zhan zhuang. In zhan zhuang, doing things wrong can happen fairly easily when you are first starting out. It can be difficult. But it also works very quickly to draw everything that's scattered about into your lower dantian. This might be something worth looking into, as it sounds like you have a good grasp on your current practice.

This specific type of practice, I feel, can be very useful to do before and after magical practices. Sorta like charging and recharging your personal battery, and centering yourself in your body. It helps you get out of your head, which I think is important. I knew a very wise man from another tradition who recommended pushups before and after evocation, and I think this operates on a similar principle.

 

[PedroM]

You might want to check out Scott Meridith. He´s on substack and got some books about it. He call Internal Power (IP) to refer to qi and related subjects.

 

[Firetree]

Recently I have been experimenting with Daoist physical mudras and meditation practices with the aim of "sinking the chi" from the upper dantians into the lower dantian, or the "sea of qi". From what I understand of Daoist internal alchemy and a lot of other Traditional Chinese Medicine, this is a good starter goal.

So far I can definitely say that my lower dantian feels more full, and I can feel the tension leaving my chest (the so called process of "emptying the chest"). As the qi leaves my upper dantian (the "third eye"), I notice less discursive thoughts as well, and less anxiety and deliberation over inconsequential things. There is also a feeling of general wellness, and less frequent moments of feelings of unwellness.

I'm just wondering if anyone here has walked this kind of path before. What should I expect? When should I consider this part of this kind of path to be completed, if ever? What is, in your estimation, the next part of this path? What are some pitfalls in this kind of path? (I've heard of "qi deviation" or "qi sickness", and so of course would prefer to avoid that)

Are you a 'belly breather' yet ? That should come 'next' . Also before 'sinking to LDT' did you 'activate ' it first ? If ot better do that soon ; it isnt static, you need a 'flow in' and 'flow out' to avoid 'stagnation ' . After that what comes next is 'chi extension ' The 'fire aspect' of your 'water aspect' in concentrating 'chi' in your LDT . It seems your mental (air level ) is okay ; the equivent there is 'no thoughts' (or really ; no 'irrelevant thoughts ' ... = 'concentration ' )
For 'Earth' practice 'keeping weight underside ' then you should have all 4 levels / elements functioning .

Next , after that, is maintaining those during 'movement' ... if you want to go on to the martial or 'Qi gong' side of things .

 

[Infinitifyr]

Damo Mitchell has some very good talks on youtube regarding this process as well as several books.

I believe Mark Rasmus also has some youtube talks specifically on how to fill the dan tien.

 

[BasicWizBiz]

Your style of practice sounds really interesting. What sources are you using? From what I've gathered and done, it's generally been gathering the energy from the earth or heaven and storing it in the lower dantien then eventually sending it up to the higher dantien. I never got that far though as I'm still trying to really feel my lower dantien and accomplish belly breathing before I try to move on more.

 

[oregano]

Your style of practice sounds really interesting. What sources are you using? From what I've gathered and done, it's generally been gathering the energy from the earth or heaven and storing it in the lower dantien then eventually sending it up to the higher dantien. I never got that far though as I'm still trying to really feel my lower dantien and accomplish belly breathing before I try to move on more.

I study martial arts and we do ki gong at the studio, also various youtube videos

Interesting that you are sending the energy to the higher dantien on purpose, when everything I've studied and heard has given the opposite advice, to collect the energy in the lower dantien and keep it there. Can you tell me where you saw this?

 

[BasicWizBiz]

The main practice I refer to is the microcosmic orbit, in particular the procedure on benebell wen's website. That has you start with the energy going from the lower dantien to the highest through the spine. Then you go back and forth between middle and lower, then a full rotation for a few times until eventually you try to expand the rotation outside your physical body into your energy fields and the cosmos as a whole.

 

[unlight]

As a point of reference, people who practice tummo are more prone to ulcer-related conditions. Therefore, when focusing attention on the abdomen, if you already have a stomach condition, it is clearly not advisable to exert too much effort in this area.

 

[Seimulluh]

With Daoist physical mudras do you mean the nine Kuji-In and Kuji-Kiri or something else?

 

[ROL13]

Recently I have been experimenting with Daoist physical mudras and meditation practices with the aim of "sinking the chi" from the upper dantians into the lower dantian, or the "sea of qi". From what I understand of Daoist internal alchemy and a lot of other Traditional Chinese Medicine, this is a good starter goal.

So far I can definitely say that my lower dantian feels more full, and I can feel the tension leaving my chest (the so called process of "emptying the chest"). As the qi leaves my upper dantian (the "third eye"), I notice less discursive thoughts as well, and less anxiety and deliberation over inconsequential things. There is also a feeling of general wellness, and less frequent moments of feelings of unwellness.

I'm just wondering if anyone here has walked this kind of path before. What should I expect? When should I consider this part of this kind of path to be completed, if ever? What is, in your estimation, the next part of this path? What are some pitfalls in this kind of path? (I've heard of "qi deviation" or "qi sickness", and so of course would prefer to avoid that)

Hello! I’m speaking from my own experience, as I have been practicing (and studying) in a disciplined manner for several years now (with brief breaks due to burnout), but I understand exactly what you’re talking about. I won’t tell you anything new that Sifu Jerry Alan Johnson—a "master of masters"—hasn't already discussed and taught. He is not widely known, but he is the most remarkable person I’ve discovered; he unlocked the entire Daoist training system, as well as high-level Chinese medicine and esoteric Daoist teachings. Dr. Pang Ming (Zhineng Qigong)—whose exercises I also practice—contributed insights into the mechanics and technology of the human body's energy fields in a very direct, no-nonsense way. You’ll find a wealth of material from these two authors. Incidentally, Dommo Mitchell and Jason Read also offer interesting material, though theirs focuses more on martial arts and the dangerous "Mo Pai" technique.
Here are the answers to your questions, my friend; I am basing this on the texts so as not to make anything up.
Turbid Qi:
What is it? It is the dense, impure, or waste energy that the body naturally generates following digestion, retained emotional stress, or exposure to pathogens.
The problem: While Pure Qi must rise to nourish the body, Turbid Qi needs to be eliminated. If it stagnates in the meridians or Dantians, it causes blockages, pain, brain fog, and illness.
Qi Deviations:
Literally translated as "Stray Fire," this is a physical, energetic, or mental disorder caused by practicing Qigong, Neigong, or meditation incorrectly, forcefully, or without proper safety closures.
Main causes: Forcing the breath, moving energy with excessive mental effort, or accumulating heat in the head or Dantian without grounding or performing Yin-cooling practices.
Common symptoms: Pressure in the head, insomnia, irritability, palpitations, spasms, or anxiety.
How is it corrected? Immediately pause the practice that caused it, direct your attention to the soles of the feet (Yongquan) to discharge excess heat into the Earth, and perform Yin-nourishing exercises. I hope this helps. Best regards and good luck with your practice!