So many political occult communities

[Shade]

I heavily lean one way but I never let that get in the way with me getting to know someone or their views. I try to be respectful and be polite. No matter if I disagree with them or not, I think most people in the occult lean some way or another is because they take the “alternative” route. Like, being 100% about it, Conservatives are heavily Christian and are anti drug and have a lot of damage by damning them. On the other hand you have the left that makes a ton of promises but doesn’t really do anything. (I mean other than kudos to legalization of bud in some states)
So each has there good and bad points, I think many occultists lean left because it is closer to anarchy. People are sick of the Christian doctrine (including me) but I don’t let the dogma of others influence my political views.
ideally legalization of all psychedelics and leaving “God” separated from state would be great but we got the choice between two evils and honestly, idc what’s legal or not I’m going to do me and be respectful of others. What’s legal or illegal is a matter of getting caught, it’s irrelevant, stand on your beliefs, if you’re on the right or on the left it don’t matter, we’re all in this together. I do think a big thing is the drug aspect, I’m a big 2a supporter But it’s criminal that psychedelics are illegal. Now ofc you don’t want a ton of people on acid carrying, but we shouldn’t live in a nanny state. So I’m more libertarian (within reason).
But I can see why there are more people drawn to the occult that are more “left” leaning especially because other countries don’t have 2a rights to begin with.
I think it makes perfect sense.

 

[Xenophon]

I heavily lean one way but I never let that get in the way with me getting to know someone or their views. I try to be respectful and be polite. No matter if I disagree with them or not, I think most people in the occult lean some way or another is because they take the “alternative” route. Like, being 100% about it, Conservatives are heavily Christian and are anti drug and have a lot of damage by damning them. On the other hand you have the left that makes a ton of promises but doesn’t really do anything. (I mean other than kudos to legalization of bud in some states)
So each has there good and bad points, I think many occultists lean left because it is closer to anarchy. People are sick of the Christian doctrine (including me) but I don’t let the dogma of others influence my political views.
ideally legalization of all psychedelics and leaving “God” separated from state would be great but we got the choice between two evils and honestly, idc what’s legal or not I’m going to do me and be respectful of others. What’s legal or illegal is a matter of getting caught, it’s irrelevant, stand on your beliefs, if you’re on the right or on the left it don’t matter, we’re all in this together. I do think a big thing is the drug aspect, I’m a big 2a supporter But it’s criminal that psychedelics are illegal. Now ofc you don’t want a ton of people on acid carrying, but we shouldn’t live in a nanny state. So I’m more libertarian (within reason).
But I can see why there are more people drawn to the occult that are more “left” leaning especially because other countries don’t have 2a rights to begin with.
I think it makes perfect sense.

Actually a lot of acid-heads packing heat might be the beginning of a solution to a number of problems. To the nanny state itself, for one. Solzhenitsyn deplored the fact 1930's Russians did not decide they had nothing to lose and start pushing back against the NKVD. The missing ingredient might have been chemicals.

 

[Shade]

Actually a lot of acid-heads packing heat might be the beginning of a solution to a number of problems. To the nanny state itself, for one. Solzhenitsyn deplored the fact 1930's Russians did not decide they had nothing to lose and start pushing back against the NKVD. The missing ingredient might have been chemicals.

I don’t disagree, I guess I was thinking of a less… drastic approach

 

[Milton]

@Shade

I think many occultists lean left because it is closer to anarchy. People are sick of the Christian doctrine (including me) but I don’t let the dogma of others influence my political views.

Life isn't a utopia. Whilst it is quite beautiful, it is not perfect. A society leaning either way will eventually fall on the side they're leaning to. I believe the tightrope walking game presents itself as a good example.
Another argument I could bring up is the Horseshoe Theory as extremes have more in common.
Eventually compromises ought to be made for a healthy society. Who am I to judge/decide however?
Mental masturbation isn't harmful at times thankfully.

it’s criminal that psychedelics are illegal.

Psychedelics dissolve culture boundaries and hierarchy, hence its illegality.
As Terrence McKenna puts it; "Culture is not your friend. Culture is for other people's convenience and the convenience of various institutions, churches, companies, tax collection schemes, what have you. It is not your friend. It insults you. It disempowers you. It uses and abuses you. None of us are well treated by culture."

It is not in the interest of any "modern" government to encourage the use of such substances regardless of their politics as these challenge their authority and demolishes the concept of borders. Furthermore.. which is the obvious one, risks of turning a society into a hippie like society and drugs addicts.
The main drive modern governments is economy, on the other hand.

 

[Shade]

@Shade



Life isn't a utopia. Whilst it is quite beautiful, it is not perfect. A society leaning either way will eventually fall on the side they're leaning to. I believe the tightrope walking game presents itself as a good example.
Another argument I could bring up is the Horseshoe Theory as extremes have more in common.
Eventually compromises ought to be made for a healthy society. Who am I to judge/decide however?
Mental masturbation isn't harmful at times thankfully.



Psychedelics dissolve culture boundaries and hierarchy, hence its illegality.
As Terrence McKenna puts it; "Culture is not your friend. Culture is for other people's convenience and the convenience of various institutions, churches, companies, tax collection schemes, what have you. It is not your friend. It insults you. It disempowers you. It uses and abuses you. None of us are well treated by culture."

It is not in the interest of any "modern" government to encourage the use of such substances regardless of their politics as these challenge their authority and demolishes the concept of borders. Furthermore.. which is the obvious one, risks of turning a society into a hippie like society and drugs addicts.
The main drive modern governments is economy, on the other hand.

I agree, but the future in this regard does look promising as shroom are is and less stigmatized and are being used in clinical setting, same with DMT.

 

[motzfeldt]

The world in 2024 is, in general, hyper politicized. The so-called elites have carefully crafted a polarised dichotomy to keep the cattle perpetually bickering and unable to focus on the greater picture (the enslavement of mankind). This is best exemplified in the USA, where you are either a "bluehair", ie, lefty that supports LGBT, immigration, welfare, etc etc or you're a "red hat", ie right winger, that supports gun rights, nationalism, Christianity, etc. Of course there are outliers and you may find left wingers with atypical views and ditto for right wingers. But in general, these "camps" have been moulded into the perfect bit of theatre for us to fight over. Of course, the people in power are neither left nor right wing, they will pursue whatever agenda that furthers their objectives. The important thing is they do this under a veil of secrecy, which is enabled by the masses constantly at each other's throats and hyper fixated on petty crap like meaningless elections.

Naturally this seeps into all sorts of communities, including the occult community. I think the tendency in the occult is to generally sway towards the left, as occultism in general does not discriminate on ethnic, sexual or gendered grounds. Not to mention, there is often a strong anti-Christian in (western) occultism which of course lends itself to left wing politics. Though as others have pointed out, paganism can often lend itself to right wing politics, via the ethnic element to it.

Anyways, it's my opinion that a true occultist should be largely apolitical. I don't believe being polarised and having fervent beliefs devoted to one exlcusive "camp" creates a healthy magician. Of course we all have beliefs and views on how society should be, but ultimately, I believe if you're on the esoteric path, these beliefs should take a very far away back seat.

I cringe in particular when I see people trying to mix Satanism and politics. For example the other day I saw a sticker on a wall that said "SOCIALISM - NATIONALISM - SATANISM", and a few weeks before that I saw a guy with a t-shirt that said "Satanic ANTIFA". A true Satanist sees beyond the illusion of life and knows that playing the Earthly politics game is both futile and meaningless. Devil worship transcends all these human concepts and people trying to claim otherwise, are, in my opinion, posers. I do not believe for a second you can earnestly be a "Satanic socialist" or a "Satanic fascist". If you believe yourself to be a Satanist but have also fallen hook, line and sinker for the polarised political trap, well, you've been played for a fool.

Rant over... I'm tired of politics.

 

[Xenophon]

The world in 2024 is, in general, hyper politicized. The so-called elites have carefully crafted a polarised dichotomy to keep the cattle perpetually bickering and unable to focus on the greater picture (the enslavement of mankind). This is best exemplified in the USA, where you are either a "bluehair", ie, lefty that supports LGBT, immigration, welfare, etc etc or you're a "red hat", ie right winger, that supports gun rights, nationalism, Christianity, etc. Of course there are outliers and you may find left wingers with atypical views and ditto for right wingers. But in general, these "camps" have been moulded into the perfect bit of theatre for us to fight over. Of course, the people in power are neither left nor right wing, they will pursue whatever agenda that furthers their objectives. The important thing is they do this under a veil of secrecy, which is enabled by the masses constantly at each other's throats and hyper fixated on petty crap like meaningless elections.

Naturally this seeps into all sorts of communities, including the occult community. I think the tendency in the occult is to generally sway towards the left, as occultism in general does not discriminate on ethnic, sexual or gendered grounds. Not to mention, there is often a strong anti-Christian in (western) occultism which of course lends itself to left wing politics. Though as others have pointed out, paganism can often lend itself to right wing politics, via the ethnic element to it.

Anyways, it's my opinion that a true occultist should be largely apolitical. I don't believe being polarised and having fervent beliefs devoted to one exlcusive "camp" creates a healthy magician. Of course we all have beliefs and views on how society should be, but ultimately, I believe if you're on the esoteric path, these beliefs should take a very far away back seat.

I cringe in particular when I see people trying to mix Satanism and politics. For example the other day I saw a sticker on a wall that said "SOCIALISM - NATIONALISM - SATANISM", and a few weeks before that I saw a guy with a t-shirt that said "Satanic ANTIFA". A true Satanist sees beyond the illusion of life and knows that playing the Earthly politics game is both futile and meaningless. Devil worship transcends all these human concepts and people trying to claim otherwise, are, in my opinion, posers. I do not believe for a second you can earnestly be a "Satanic socialist" or a "Satanic fascist". If you believe yourself to be a Satanist but have also fallen hook, line and sinker for the polarised political trap, well, you've been played for a fool.

Rant over... I'm tired of politics.

Not a bad set of observations. Satan is getting as often ideologically car-jacked as gentle Jesus, I see.

 

[motzfeldt]

Not a bad set of observations. Satan is getting as often ideologically car-jacked as gentle Jesus, I see.

Indeed. There are a lot of people today who use religious figures to reinforce their cultural/political beliefs. For example you have many "cultural Christians", ie right wingers who do not actually care about the deeper meaning behind Christianity, but simply identify as Christian because it looks cool, it's linked to white/European identity and supposedly supports "traditional values" (nevermind the abundance of LGBT churches and pro-immigration Christian NGOs). The teachings and spiritual side of Christianity are thrown aside in favour of having another "thing" they can use to conform to their politics in this "culture war" we find ourselves in.

Now we're seeing a similar trend with left wingers and Satan... They don't actually care about the esoteric significance of Satanism in its many guises. If you told them of the philosophical similarities between Satanism and Buddhism they'd look at you as if you had 7 heads (ie they don't have a fucking clue). They just think it looks cool and it annoys Christians.

But well, let them. It's ultimately irrelevant to me.

 

[Pyrographer]

So i was looking to find some more occultist communities to just chat in
And most i could find were heavely politically left leaning and also mostly pagan/witchcraft only
Anyone have any idea why
(also im very thankfull that the wstaff here do a good job keeping politics out)

Political zealotry has been the downfall of many occult communities. This will continue and the politically disinterested will bounce around like ping pong balls trying to avoid the mess. It has been very difficult the past 10 years or so to find people of compatible vibes. Most seem to be more into pushing political ideology than exploring their own practice. When a community is gatekeeping based on political agenda, it's a flashing sign to stay away.

 

[Xenophon]

Political zealotry has been the downfall of many occult communities. This will continue and the politically disinterested will bounce around like ping pong balls trying to avoid the mess. It has been very difficult the past 10 years or so to find people of compatible vibes. Most seem to be more into pushing political ideology than exploring their own practice. When a community is gatekeeping based on political agenda, it's a flashing sign to stay away.

Of course, there are those who went into magick looking for a way to further a political agenda. Fer instance, the traditional Grail legend has that relic pursued by a coterie of Christian fanatics like Sir Galahad. I don't suppose that is any less pure than a cancer patient barking up the Thelema tree looking to corner a cure. In the case of politics, "Come for the book burning. Stay to tune in with your True Will."

 

[Pyrographer]

Of course, there are those who went into magick looking for a way to further a political agenda. Fer instance, the traditional Grail legend has that relic pursued by a coterie of Christian fanatics like Sir Galahad. I don't suppose that is any less pure than a cancer patient barking up the Thelema tree looking to corner a cure. In the case of politics, "Come for the book burning. Stay to tune in with your True Will."

Gotta be careful who you mix energy with. Do you know their true intentions?

 

[Xenophon]

Gotta be careful who you mix energy with. Do you know their true intentions?

Hey, Crowley founded a religion on the (fairly reasonable) proposition that the vast majority of folks don't even know their own.

 

[Pyrographer]

Hey, Crowley founded a religion on the (fairly reasonable) proposition that the vast majority of folks don't even know their own.

I suspect that worked out better for him than many of his adherents.

 

[Xenophon]

I suspect that worked out better for him than many of his adherents.

Come to think of it, the Beast nicked that notion from Jesus. "Thy will be done...&c."

 

[diabolika]

I'm trying my best to give wizardforums.com a right leaning flair but I don't get much help in doing so, I can feel that pain.

I would love a rightwing occult place tbh. But unlike the lefties, the right (and I mean actual right not christcuck conservatives) somehow suck at organising itself. Perhaps I will start my own.

well, there are no problems bringing about magickal lodges with conservative values. the problem lies in lacking organisational structure as you said.
i wont mention names but there seems to be a downhill trajectory some temples that have right-leaning values take on once they perform one collective working for the political agenda, which makes me think the interplay between poltiics and magick is too complex and convoluted to keep together. separate church and state? same with magick and polItics IMHO.
i think in this day and age of internet surveillance and all, the wisest choice is to keep them separate. IMHO.

 

[Sabbatius]

well, there are no problems bringing about magickal lodges with conservative values. the problem lies in lacking organisational structure as you said.
i wont mention names but there seems to be a downhill trajectory some temples that have right-leaning values take on once they perform one collective working for the political agenda, which makes me think the interplay between poltiics and magick is too complex and convoluted to keep together. separate church and state? same with magick and polItics IMHO.
i think in this day and age of internet surveillance and all, the wisest choice is to keep them separate. IMHO.

I agree, especially with keeping the political rat out of the pantry. None of my work deals with politics anyway.

 

[Queenofallwitches]

Is there any apolitical occult things ?

 

[Faria]

The missing ingredient might have been chemicals.

That appears to be the secret ingredient for socio-political change. Sometimes it's tea, sometimes it's acid, and sometimes it's hormone blockers, but movements owe as much to their drugs as to their ideologies. Without meth-type drugs, modern Islamic terrorism might not exist. Even the Old Man of the Mountains had his green honey. It has been argued that early Christians were eating psychedelic fungus. Alcohol has repeatedly been a key factor in turning groups of angry people into groups of rioters. If you want to change the minds of millions of people, getting them all on the same drugs is essential.