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Book Discussion Steganographia

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Xenophon

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Has anyone looked at or into this? It was reccomended to me as absolutely essential to a variety of LHP magick I might have an interest in. Unfortunately, I have a log-jam of magick work and make-a-living work ahead of me, so has anyone read or worked with it? I know its author was a cryptographer polymath who influenced Agrippa. I'm just after any hands on info y'all might proffer.
 

stalkinghyena

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I tried my own hand at translation for myself but it was too much work, and my Latin is more on the piggish side. I was hoping someone would get around to publishing it in English for the lazy.

I did come across an article about a Navy cryptographer who supposedly decoded Book 3 of the work, but it did not say what Trithemius wrote - it was just a claim.

Best story I have heard though is that John Dee met a mysterious Hungarian while in Amsterdam (?) who offered to let him copy the book by hand, but he had only 10 days (?) to get it done. Apparently Steganographia was extremely rare in those days, and Dee coveted it highly. Dee stayed up through the period working furiously to get it all down, grinding himself to exhaustion. Not sure if his copy still survives.
 

Xenophon

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I have a PDF of an English translation done by Fiona Tait and Christopher Upton. But it is only Books I and III. The photostats say it was an edition of 500 copies printed in Edinburg, but with no date. Miskatonic Books says 1982. If Book One proves of interest, I might try machine translating Book II (with fear and trembling, yes.) If you want a the file I have in English, PM me.
 

buidinhdanhn

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I have a PDF of an English translation done by Fiona Tait and Christopher Upton. But it is only Books I and III. The photostats say it was an edition of 500 copies printed in Edinburg, but with no date. Miskatonic Books says 1982. If Book One proves of interest, I might try machine translating Book II (with fear and trembling, yes.) If you want a the file I have in English, PM me.
From what i've seen, Steganographia is pretty much the Lemegeton book 2 (Ars Theurgia Goetia) and 3 (Ars Paulina) without the spirits's seals and only with conjurations for them. I look up book 2 on Twilit Grotto through Google Translate and found they are pretty much the same things as the angels of hours and days in Ars Paulina with conjurations only
 

shadowstalker

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I've been wondering if this book, Dr. Skinner's translation, is useful to work with, I've been contemplating for few hours on whether on buying it or not. So, the book is about sending messages through the wind, and the person who is a receiver needs to speak some conjurations in order to make it work. So, what If I would like to send a message to someone, and I was unable to tell him/her that I have a message that is going through the spirits. If that's the case, it'll be useless.
It was reccomended to me as absolutely essential to a variety of LHP magick
I am curious to what's the relevance of this grimoire to LHP? I'm so intrigued by the scope of this grimoire.
 
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Decabeh

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I have been looking into Steganographia for some time. According to Dan Harms review of Skinners edition it has completly ignored cryptography providing only translation based on a late french manuscript copy. There is one surviving manuscript attributed to John Dee. Text itself isn't interesting, very repetitive and formulaic. Trithemius just wanted to pad out his book. Only Spirits from chapters 1-16 Book 1 have some specific tasks attributed to them, like these carry love secrets, those carry secrets about treasure. In chapters 21-31 Book 1 every time spirits appear in a monstrous form its a snake with a head of a woman. In Book 2 sometimes he claims that he got his info from "Raziel" or "Solomon, the hebrew Hermes" or "Picatricem".

Cryptographic meaning of the book was obvious since 1606 because all printed editions came with "Clavis Steganographia" and "Clavis Generalis Triplex" that gave short description of encryption methods with examples and solutions (different then those in Steganographia itself), but they did not explain the spirit conjurations. Those were first revealed in 1624 by duke August II of Brunswick aka "Gustavus Selenus" in his book "Cryptomenytices et Cryptographiae", which was translated into english in 1900 but never published.
For spirit conjurations take every other word, then take every other letter to receive an instruction how to hide your secret. First and last words never contain important letters. Printed editions sometimes had errors in them that made it impossible to read secret messages in conjurations. Tables with spirit names and numbers are hints to each method. In Book 2 first letters from the name of spirits hide substitution ciphers for a 22 letter alphabet.

Best edition explaining the cryptography has to be one by Wolfgang Heidel, first published in 1676 and reprinted in 1721. It has all the answers intervowen in the text (missing some illustrations). Every message hidden in spirit conjurations is given right after it, every example letter has hidden message highlighted with upper case letters. Even not knowing latin (or sometimes german} its not hard to figure out. Heidel claimed he solved Book 3 but has hidden answers in his own code. Only in the '90 when Thomas Ernst and Jim Reeds published articles on it secrets of Book 3 were made public. Its based on a substitution cipher alphabet of 25 symbols where every spirit has different number range.

If I would like to send a message to someone, and I was unable to tell him/her that I have a message that is going through the spirits.
Trithemius multiple times states that you have to send a "clean" letter "which hides nothing" to a friend marked with a symbol of the spirit, so they know which encryption method you used.

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shadowstalker

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I have been looking into Steganographia for some time. According to Dan Harms review of Skinners edition it has completly ignored cryptography providing only translation based on a late french manuscript copy. There is one surviving manuscript attributed to John Dee. Text itself isn't interesting, very repetitive and formulaic. Trithemius just wanted to pad out his book. Only Spirits from chapters 1-16 Book 1 have some specific tasks attributed to them, like these carry love secrets, those carry secrets about treasure. In chapters 21-31 Book 1 every time spirits appear in a monstrous form its a snake with a head of a woman. In Book 2 sometimes he claims that he got his info from "Raziel" or "Solomon, the hebrew Hermes" or "Picatricem".

Cryptographic meaning of the book was obvious since 1606 because all printed editions came with "Clavis Steganographia" and "Clavis Generalis Triplex" that gave short description of encryption methods with examples and solutions (different then those in Steganographia itself), but they did not explain the spirit conjurations. Those were first revealed in 1624 by duke August II of Brunswick aka "Gustavus Selenus" in his book "Cryptomenytices et Cryptographiae", which was translated into english in 1900 but never published.
For spirit conjurations take every other word, then take every other letter to receive an instruction how to hide your secret. First and last words never contain important letters. Printed editions sometimes had errors in them that made it impossible to read secret messages in conjurations. Tables with spirit names and numbers are hints to each method. In Book 2 first letters from the name of spirits hide substitution ciphers for a 22 letter alphabet.

Best edition explaining the cryptography has to be one by Wolfgang Heidel, first published in 1676 and reprinted in 1721. It has all the answers intervowen in the text (missing some illustrations). Every message hidden in spirit conjurations is given right after it, every example letter has hidden message highlighted with upper case letters. Even not knowing latin (or sometimes german} its not hard to figure out. Heidel claimed he solved Book 3 but has hidden answers in his own code. Only in the '90 when Thomas Ernst and Jim Reeds published articles on it secrets of Book 3 were made public. Its based on a substitution cipher alphabet of 25 symbols where every spirit has different number range.


Trithemius multiple times states that you have to send a "clean" letter "which hides nothing" to a friend marked with a symbol of the spirit, so they know which encryption method you used.

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I already bought the book, and it is currently in transit, hopefully to get it by 26.. Since you mentioned that Skinners didn't include the cryptography of the book, it seems they are more drawn to Theurgia-Goetia than the topic itself. I looked up Foolish Fish, I thought the message are revealed through dreams, when they said the said conjuration from the book, so that's why they need to say the receiver's conjuration. Which is why it renders it more useless. It is a mystical way to send messages right? So how'd they know I called a spirit for the message, I had to send them the symbol of the spirit?
 

Decabeh

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It is a mystical way to send messages right?
Let me demonstrate, Thritemius in Book 1 tells you that you have to sit down to write a letter, facing a correct direction and say the conjuration of the spirits. here is a conjuration of Camuel:
Camuel aperoys melym meuomauial cafmoyn cralti bufaco aeli lumarphotrion theor befmays aneal cabelonyr thiamo vesonthy.
here is a secret insruction:
aPeRoYs MeUoMaUiAl CrAlTi AeLi ThEoR aNeAl ThIaMo
Primum vacat Alternatim - First vacant alternativly.

For each chapter Thritemius gives an example letter to be sent to a friend, it has to be signed with a symbol of Camuel.

salutem d.
lator Praefentium, frater Arnoldus bostius Pluro composuit Admirand voluminade Variis rebus Ut in Libro nostro Tivi dum.
transmisso Inter alia Multa qui Praenotat de Ecclesiasticis scriptoribus, Reperies scriptum In sine Ubi sit Mentio viventium.
hunc Tantum virum Relifione et Artium venustate Notabilem tuae Sinceritati, chrissme Fautor, comendo Et plurimum Rogo, quatenus Recipias ipsum Eaqua omnes In amicitia Nobic conjunctos.
suscipere Familiaritate consuevisti, Referabit tibi Arcana multa Naturae, teqe Conversatione dulcissima Oblectare poterit Si volucris.
meum De magicis Experimentis codicem.
quem Habbes mihi Oro quantocius Curato remittere, volmen Sinesu de Virtute spirituum Mittam tibi.
mox Cum mihi Experimenta mea Remiseris cura Te ipsum Ut volcas Saepeque rescribito.
date in spahneim sexto iduum martii, anno dominicace incanationis m.d. ioan. trit. abb. (symbol of Camuel)


What the letter itself is about anyone interested can google translate and compere to what is written in between. Capitulations of significant words like that is only in Heidel editions, it follows the instruction from the conjuration revealing secret message:
Papa vult imperium transferre in Francos, de hoc sum certus. - Pope wants to transfer the empire to te french, i am certain of it.
When a friend recognises symbol of Camuel he is supposed to say a second conjuration which has a similar instruction to decipher it.

Thats a long way of saying NO, this is not a mystical way of sending messages, just hiding them in plain sight. Heidel edition has all of them explained like this. It will be a nice companion to your english translation from Skinner.
 

shadowstalker

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Let me demonstrate, Thritemius in Book 1 tells you that you have to sit down to write a letter, facing a correct direction and say the conjuration of the spirits. here is a conjuration of Camuel:
Camuel aperoys melym meuomauial cafmoyn cralti bufaco aeli lumarphotrion theor befmays aneal cabelonyr thiamo vesonthy.
here is a secret insruction:
aPeRoYs MeUoMaUiAl CrAlTi AeLi ThEoR aNeAl ThIaMo
Primum vacat Alternatim - First vacant alternativly.

For each chapter Thritemius gives an example letter to be sent to a friend, it has to be signed with a symbol of Camuel.

salutem d.
lator Praefentium, frater Arnoldus bostius Pluro composuit Admirand voluminade Variis rebus Ut in Libro nostro Tivi dum.
transmisso Inter alia Multa qui Praenotat de Ecclesiasticis scriptoribus, Reperies scriptum In sine Ubi sit Mentio viventium.
hunc Tantum virum Relifione et Artium venustate Notabilem tuae Sinceritati, chrissme Fautor, comendo Et plurimum Rogo, quatenus Recipias ipsum Eaqua omnes In amicitia Nobic conjunctos.
suscipere Familiaritate consuevisti, Referabit tibi Arcana multa Naturae, teqe Conversatione dulcissima Oblectare poterit Si volucris.
meum De magicis Experimentis codicem.
quem Habbes mihi Oro quantocius Curato remittere, volmen Sinesu de Virtute spirituum Mittam tibi.
mox Cum mihi Experimenta mea Remiseris cura Te ipsum Ut volcas Saepeque rescribito.
date in spahneim sexto iduum martii, anno dominicace incanationis m.d. ioan. trit. abb. (symbol of Camuel)


What the letter itself is about anyone interested can google translate and compere to what is written in between. Capitulations of significant words like that is only in Heidel editions, it follows the instruction from the conjuration revealing secret message:
Papa vult imperium transferre in Francos, de hoc sum certus. - Pope wants to transfer the empire to te french, i am certain of it.
When a friend recognises symbol of Camuel he is supposed to say a second conjuration which has a similar instruction to decipher it.

Thats a long way of saying NO, this is not a mystical way of sending messages, just hiding them in plain sight. Heidel edition has all of them explained like this. It will be a nice companion to your english translation from Skinner.
Assuming that my friend recieves the letter which is "Papa vult imperium transferre in Francos, de hoc sum certus" and said the second conjuration, will the spirit come and decrypt it for my friend? If no, then it's nothing spiritual or magickal for me. Just bunch of works.
 

Decabeh

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There is also something I've noticed. Conjuration of Lucifer in Grimorium Verum is based on second conjuration of Dorothiel, although strongly misspelled. Not sure about about Beelzebub and Astaroth, might look into it later.
 

neilwilkes

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My copy of the Dr Skinner book has just been delivered (along with 2 others) and I will post a detailed review at some point
 
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