Summoning Spirits outside of the usual means

[Lion]

I would be really interested in your system. Is it a form of Chaos magic?

 

[nunaphael]

So, I might be wrong, but in the Western traditions, the main place to find methods of conjuring spirits is in the Abrahamic tradition. As in to say, conjuring angels and demons utilizing the names of the Abrahamic God.

Frankly, I'm not sure why this is. The god i read about in these Grimiores comes off as very different than the one I'd hear about in church. As in to say, if you were raised in the church, you would've been taught that God doesn't permit interaction between humans and spirits. Then you find a catalog of spirits you could summon. Provided you're utilizing his name to do so. Whether or not this god promotes this practice, he is involved.

This seems like something a god like Odin or Hecate would do. As in to say, a god who holds domain over magic, spells, and spirits, having an assortment of beings the average magician can call upon to aid in both the most mundane, and arcane, of concerns, providing a manual on the conjuration of these beings, and instructions on etiquette and offerings. I mean, I'd be happy to conjure elves for healing and protection, or dwarves for knowledge and wealth.

So, does the practice of spirit summoning exist in other traditions? Perhaps in a less dramatic way than that of the Goetia?

I work exclusively with "spirits", although, I don't call them that. I call them by their names, I ask them to introduce themselves and we have conversations and I talk to them like I'm talking to you right now. I don't think it's really useful to label them apart from their given names. I don't call you "human", or "entity", I'd probably just shorten your name to "lumineth" or once I got to know you better I might call you "lumi".

I practice the nordic tradition called seidr magic as well as galdr magic. We don't use circles, incense, astrology, magic squares, or any of that stuff. We use a staff, a hood, special songs called vardlokkur, which we use to induce the trance state as well as set our intentions for the ritual, and occasionally (if I want to do a really long or deep journey) a brew called poetic mead that is lightly psychedelic and helps to maintain the trance more easily.

The most important elements are the staff and the vardlokkur. That's really all you technically "need" to do seidr rituals. The staff is used to ground and anchor you, it will become your axis mundi while you are traveling, so you hold onto it tight and grip it fast while you journey, it is your lifeline so to speak. The vardlokkur are special songs which you will learn from the spirits themselves as you journey. They teach you poems or songs that you chant or sing, which will allow you to go straight into a trance and call upon them. Think of these songs as like phone numbers that you keep in an address book which you use to "call" the spirits you wish to work with.

Unlike other shamanic traditions, we don't use drums, we pound the staff rhythmically into the ground to produce a pulsing beat which entrains the brain and puts it into a theta state. About 7hz I believe. I forget the specific technicality, but I'm sure you heard of the idea yourself before. The lucid and trance states usually occur in the theta range, so that is why shamanic drumming is very effective and used all over the world for shamanic practice. We achieve basically the same thing with the rhythmic stamping of the staff on the ground.

Another way to use the staff is to spin the staff in a rhythm as if you were spinning and weaving wool into thread using a distaff and a drop spindel. But among reconstructionists this is actually a bit controversial as far as I am aware, because it is actually quite hard to maintain your focus in a trance journey while you are spinning and weaving. The spinning and weaving is a bit distracting, but I suppose if you had to do it every day for your entire life, that might make it easier to use in trance journeying, but I am a bit skeptic of this personally. I stick with the generally accepted method, which is to just tap your staff on the ground and hum or chant or sing your vardloka and focus on your intention and just go into the trance.

A "vardloka" (literally "ward-lock") is a short poem, typically three lines, with the timing being two beats on the first two lines, and three beats on the last line. The first consonant of each "beat" is alliterated with the following beat, and it changes each line. For example:

Wither, rune-warder,
Shall we sail?
Bearing such baleful brews?

A tricky day traveling
Riding through rain
Helping the hopeless at home.

(I know it's awful, I just made it up off the top of my head to demonstrate the technique, and no I did not use AI, that's why it's so bad lol)

Ordinarily though, you don't come up with these on your own. Or rather, you practice coming up with them on your own as a hobby, you study poetry and you study meter and song and verse and fill your mind with the raw materials that the spirits need to assemble the song themselves out of your memories, you see? You learn a bunch of stuff so they can pick the ideas out of your head for you and go "these ones" and the spirits instruct you themselves.

That's basically how we do everything, it's not really "me" doing it. The idea is to become a "hollow bone", you want to empty yourself, your own desires, your own goals and agendas, and the only thread of yourself that you hold onto is that singular intention you picked at the start of the ritual. Like "I am journeying to find a companion who can help me to cure my friend's disease" or something like that. Apart from that, your staff anchors you and you go into the trance and hopefully you find a spirit that trusts you enough to work with you.

Trust is how this form of magic operates. You don't think in terms of "good" or "evil" - you think in terms of "did you do what you said you were going to do?" All that matters is reciprocity. Are you someone who keeps your word? Are you dependable? Or are you weak and are you a traitor? Do you make excuses when you screw up? Then the spirits won't want much to do with you, and it will take a lot more work to earn their trust. Or you might be able to convince the ones that are quite innocent and somewhat naive. But you will never convince the more powerful spirits that are ancient beyond comprehension and have vast amounts of wisdom, for example the Aesir or the Vanir gods, or even very ancient landvaettir, or jotuns and thurses.

To that extent, we don't really use any form of protection, so no circles or banishments. We don't do that really because it's somewhat disrespectful if you think about it. No spirit can ever take control over you unless you consciously or unconsciously allow it to do so, this is called the "law of sovreignity" so you have literally no reason to be paranoid about spirit possession. It can only happen if you, or some unconscious part of you, wants it to happen. So that's the real question you have to ask yourself, do you trust every part of yourself? Not just your conscious mind, but do you trust your shadow as well?

Anyway, sorry to ramble. I actually came to this forum looking for more discussion about nordic spirituality and magical traditions but so far it's been pretty low key. Most people are into your bog standard qabalah, tarot cards, astrology, stuff like Agrippa, Mathers, Eliphas Levi, Waite, Crowley, Gardner, basically neoplatonism and heremetic philosophy that goes back to the greco-roman hellenistic period reinvented for the 20th century. A few more "advanced" students go beyond this and they start studying the primary texts, medieval grimoires like the Oberon or Grimiore Vellum and so forth. But even those grimoires teach concepts that are still basically just the same thing Mathers and Crowley were doing, but in a more rustic and "old fashioned" way that wasn't quite as syncretic and the techniques are slightly different. But the underlying philosophy is the same - there is a "monad" or some singularity that everything stems from, some monotheistic entity that is the "source" and there is this top-down heirarchy where everything is an emanation of "the one". That philosophy is called "neoplatonism" and it was first founded by Plato, and then expounded upon by Plotinus and later Iamblichus, and it became the basis for all western esoteric magical traditions for over a thousand years now. It also became the basis of monotheism in general and for Christanity, which took over and almost abolished all other world views.

 

[Lion]

Thanks for sharing this. So much there to think about. How do you actually see/contact the spirits? when you are in a trance state do you do anything else to see/contact them? how do you know that tthey are there? also in the reciprocity you describe what is it you exchange with them?

 

[Keldan]

I practice the nordic tradition called seidr magic as well as galdr magic.

This is actually pretty similar to how I work with my spirits. They each have their own names and their type of being, and that’s how I address them as who they are.

I do work with a few very ancient skógarvættir, as well as some thurses and sjávargvættir. I wouldn’t really say that I practice any Norse tradition, which is why I’ve mentioned on the forum that I practice Norse folk magick. That description feels much closer to what I actually do.

 

[nunaphael]

This is actually pretty similar to how I work with my spirits. They each have their own names and their type of being, and that’s how I address them as who they are.

I do work with a few very ancient skógarvættir, as well as some thurses and sjávargvættir. I wouldn’t really say that I practice any Norse tradition, which is why I’ve mentioned on the forum that I practice Norse folk magick. That description feels much closer to what I actually do.

Very cool! Well, that makes two people I've seen mention this stuff so far around here since I joined. Quite promising actually, that's very good! And yes, labels are a very tricky thing for me personally because often times my intent is obscured by the label rather than clarified by it, and that's when I feel like labels just get in the way. So, I hesitate to call myself a shaman, because that's a very broad label that could mean many things, and I just stick to "I do seidr magic and sometimes galdr magic" because those are the frameworks that I mostly work in these days.

However, I am always trying to further my own knowledge and understanding of the history of seidr practice because almost everything about it really resonates with me on a personal level that no other framework I've learned so far has really done. Which is unfortunate because accurate historical facts are very hard to find and mostly missing, so people have had to get very "creative" in their approach to reconstructing seidr, and that's where it gets highly personal and I don't want to offend anybody by saying I do something a certain way as if I am claiming that's how you are "supposed to" to seidr rituals. I certainly don't want to get into arguments about what is considered appropriation and what is considered inspiration.

I don't feel I'm appropriating the term "seidr" or "galdr" when I apply it to what I do because my intention from the start is to try and remain faithful to the intention of those who originally practiced seidr and galdr magic. That is to say, they were "making it up" as well, in the beginning, everything was made up, and then handed down generation to generation. But the difference is that there used to be an unbroken chain of songs, sagas, rituals, culture, practice, and so forth, that held the community together, and that chain has been broken. So now, I feel, it is acceptable to begin a new chain of transmission, as we have always done in times like these.

I think there can be a "new seidr" for the modern age, which does it's best to restore the practice but admits and understands where modifications or new inventions might be necessary. I also don't just decide on my own what I think is appropriate to do, I often will ask others in the broader seidr community, ideally those who are well known and respected if I can get their attention briefly, and then I consider their points of view before I make a decision on what I think makes sense to do. I think approaching it this way, where you aren't just doing it as a solitary practice, but you are trying to collaborate with other people who also want to learn and collaborate, is what transforms it into an actual tradition, because then it becomes a kind of glue that binds a community together and makes it stronger over time.

 

[Keldan]

I consider their points of view before I make a decision on what I think makes sense to do.

Most of what people know about seiðr comes from Eddic texts written from the 14th century. Over time, the practice declined and went underground. I don’t rely on literature or community consensus for facts, I ask the spirits I work with directly and those who know for it.

You shouldn’t need to ask a community’s permission to know whether something is appropriate to practice. Even within a group that calls itself a seiðr or Norse magick community, people are often blending inspiration, creativity, and partial historical material, without any deep contact with ancient spirits or currents. Someone can take a few elements they like from a tradition, add their own inventions, and still publicly label it seiðr. But that doesn’t automatically make it historically authentic than other forms of work.

I practice Norse folk magick informed by ancient spirits, thurses, and other beings, and I blend that with other strands of folk practice as my spirits teach me. My system is totally spirit driven without involving in any framework or grimoire tradition. And I have spirits summoned and work with spirits outside the usual grimoire routes. I’m not here to dismantle anyone’s belief in seiðr, I just approach the whole thread question from a different angle. And that is more prioritizing on direct relationships with ancient spirits over community debates about what is or isn’t proper to practice.

 

[nunaphael]

Most of what people know about seiðr comes from Eddic texts written from the 14th century. Over time, the practice declined and went underground. I don’t rely on literature or community consensus for facts, I ask the spirits I work with directly and those who know for it.

You shouldn’t need to ask a community’s permission to know whether something is appropriate to practice. Even within a group that calls itself a seiðr or Norse magick community, people are often blending inspiration, creativity, and partial historical material, without any deep contact with ancient spirits or currents. Someone can take a few elements they like from a tradition, add their own inventions, and still publicly label it seiðr. But that doesn’t automatically make it historically authentic than other forms of work.

I practice Norse folk magick informed by ancient spirits, thurses, and other beings, and I blend that with other strands of folk practice as my spirits teach me. My system is totally spirit driven without involving in any framework or grimoire tradition. And I have spirits summoned and work with spirits outside the usual grimoire routes. I’m not here to dismantle anyone’s belief in seiðr, I just approach the whole thread question from a different angle. And that is more prioritizing on direct relationships with ancient spirits over community debates about what is or isn’t proper to practice.

Sensing a lot of hostility in this post for some reason. I dunno where it came from, but it wasn't from me or anything I said lol. I wish you the best of luck in resolving this tension you have with whatever it is that I reminded you of though.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:42 PM

Thanks for sharing this. So much there to think about. How do you actually see/contact the spirits? when you are in a trance state do you do anything else to see/contact them? how do you know that tthey are there? also in the reciprocity you describe what is it you exchange with them?

Ideally, you will find someone who practices seidr who can teach you a vardloka. Otherwise, you'll have to acquire them yourself somehow. A lot of people begin with drumming for example, using 240 bpm shamanic drum recordings or something. That works, but it is not actually a part of seidr practice (there is no historical evidence that seidr involved drumming). But there's no rules, just guidelines, so you can do whatever works for you. When you are in the trance state, it is very similar to the experience of having a lucid dream, except that you were conscious of having put yourself in that state.

While in the trance, your eyes are usually closed. I wear a big heavy hood that blocks out most light so I can't see. The song and it's lyrics and timing help to bring you into a specific trance. The timing, and the poetry, act as technology that dials a specific frequency attuned to the spirit (or spirits) you are trying to work with. These songs are their "phone numbers" so to speak. Like addresses in an address book. You use vardlokkur to call them. Because you are in a lucid state, your perceptions themselves carry a kind of resonance that affirms when something is "really happening" or not. I cannot explain it, because it is subjective, but you will "just know". Again, I cannot explain the mechanism behind this "just knowing", but it will be extremely obvious and you will surprised how it comes across very strongly without requiring any discernment at all. The most distinct feature of the encounter is that it feels external and independent from your own thoughts, feelings, or expectations. It will necessarily be a bit shocking and possibly disrupt your journey the first time you actually encounter one.

From there, you will intuitively know what to do. They can ask for all sorts of things, usually I find they just want someone to talk to and they are more than willing to help you with "easy stuff" (like inspiration for a song I'm composing or what to say to my boss at work to resolve a conflict) in return for your company, or perhaps a small offering. I once encountered a moose that asked me for some bread, particularly honey oat bread, which I did not have (I can't eat wheat), so I went and bought a loaf and it told me one slice would have been enough!

However, I would not try to interpret anything as "good" or "bad" because our human ethical assumptions don't translate very well into the spiritual world. Instead, I am just noticing if something is painful to me, or not, and whether or not something is consistent, or rather inconsistent. So, I should say, what I mean by "reciprocity" is just, if something is harmful to you, and you are harmful to it, this is "honorable". If something is helpful to you, and you bring harm to it, this is "dishonorable". If something says it will do something for you, and then it does that thing for you, that is "honorable". When it doesn't do the things it said it would do, this is "dishonorable".

The reason I think it's more useful to look at things this way is because you will encounter rather cunning spirits that are not always going to be trustworthy. Many spirits are just parasites trying to deceive you. If you are unwise, you will listen to them and get eaten alive by the jungle. But if you are at least a somewhat decent judge of character, you will not be deceived, and you will recognize when something is up right away and know when a spirit is just trying to mess with you. The spirit world is no different from the real world in that sense. You just cannot trust every single thing. You need to be prepared for anything.

But don't be anxious about possession or anything extreme. Remember the law of sovreignity, that nothing can possess you or any part of you without your consent, and then you have nothing to worry about. The only concern is having wasted your time, sometimes you will have to repeat a journey several times, or when you are in different places or states of mind. Often I find doing some kind of short fast or purification ritual helps to cleanse myself of any energy that might be attracting trickster spirits. But there's no mention of such rituals being part of seidr practice, so it's one of those things you just have to decide for yourself if it makes sense to do.

 

[Keldan]

Sensing a lot of hostility in this post for some reason. I dunno where it came from, but it wasn't from me or anything I said lol. I wish you the best of luck in resolving this tension you have with whatever it is that I reminded you of though.

My practice has nothing to do with seiðr as I already stated. I work with Norse folk magick and other strands of folk practice that are guided by the spirits I work with. And these spirits were summoned outside the usual methods discussed in this thread.

I also advised you not to ask a community’s permission to decide what is appropriate for you to practice. My point is that you don’t need external approval to do so. If you’re confusing directness with hostility, that is something worth examining on your end, not mine.