Tesla AI Q+A Panel

[SkullTraill]

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Some interesting insights into Tesla's Machine Learning strategy, future of Tesla Bot, etc.

 

[Scottish_Pride]

Shit imma have to wait till I go in to work on Monday to listen to something this long. Will get back to you, though!

 

[Scottish_Pride]

So here's some points I thought of and remembered to write about, sorry about the long delay.

1. The cynic in me wonders whether this repeated insistence on TeslaBot filling the need for "Boring, repetitive tasks" is really just a nicer way of saying "Eliminating need for minimum wage jobs". And if something like this really catches on in that way, it begs many questions about the future of the job market and economy. What will teenagers do once "starter jobs" no longer exist? Will the route to a career just be higher education/internship and then straight into a career, with future generations no longer knowing what it's like to have to work a crappy job first? Will that rob youths of an opportunity to get pocket money and build up basic job skill/a sense of responsibility earlier in life? And of course, what will we do when it comes to all the people who need to support themselves while getting higher education, or can't even get higher education and simply need to pay the bills? A simple idea such as robots making McDonald's workers close to 100% obsolete would probably have lots of ripple effects.

2. I find it really interesting how Elon Musk likes to insinuate that humans are really inferior to machines in the end, such as with skills like driving. Can't really put my finger on it, but the whole attitude he projects makes me wonder what he really thinks about human beings on a personal level.

 

[Scottish_Pride]

3. On the subject of self-driving cars and his wanting to make a future where non-self-driving cars are totally obsolete, I really wonder about the implications of that on a societal level as well. The death or decline of car culture, perhaps? How would NASCAR operate without drivers and still make the races interesting? For that matter, would street racers disappear? If your morning commute is more like sitting in a metal box while you're being driven to work, will employers start expecting you to get a "head start" on work before even showing up? With a car so heavily automated, what would happen if an EMP hit? Will hackers eventually figure out how to tamper peoples' cars for some sort of personal gain, such as maybe holding a car for ransom? How much control will companies have over what their cars report back, since it's been revealed they're already collecting driving data for AI improvement? Would we even know? And of course, as a person who thoroughly enjoys the act of driving for its own sake, I'd really be sad if the choice of keeping that capability ends up no longer being mine.

4. I find it absolutely hilarious how they tried to address the question of "companion TeslaBots" in the most professional manner possible, when I think they all knew that sexbots were on the mind.


In general, I try to keep an open mind about new technologies, but I also tend to approach things with a healthy dose of skepticism. Especially since we know that big companies don't always necessarily have the consumers' best interests at heart, I like to especially question the motives of the humans behind the screen before I consider buying a product. I feel like that's just common sense. With that being said, it'll be interesting how things unfold, and whether the claims here will really hold water over the coming decades. For now, I'll keep holding onto my old ass Honda till it disintegrates because I'm too broke for a new car anyway. XD

 

[SkullTraill]

So here's some points I thought of and remembered to write about, sorry about the long delay.

1. The cynic in me wonders whether this repeated insistence on TeslaBot filling the need for "Boring, repetitive tasks" is really just a nicer way of saying "Eliminating need for minimum wage jobs". And if something like this really catches on in that way, it begs many questions about the future of the job market and economy. What will teenagers do once "starter jobs" no longer exist? Will the route to a career just be higher education/internship and then straight into a career, with future generations no longer knowing what it's like to have to work a crappy job first? Will that rob youths of an opportunity to get pocket money and build up basic job skill/a sense of responsibility earlier in life? And of course, what will we do when it comes to all the people who need to support themselves while getting higher education, or can't even get higher education and simply need to pay the bills? A simple idea such as robots making McDonald's workers close to 100% obsolete would probably have lots of ripple effects.

2. I find it really interesting how Elon Musk likes to insinuate that humans are really inferior to machines in the end, such as with skills like driving. Can't really put my finger on it, but the whole attitude he projects makes me wonder what he really thinks about human beings on a personal level.

1. The reason they've been insisting that TeslaBot would be focusing on "boring, repetitve, labor-intensive" tasks is simply because it is so early on in the development process that they don't know what it will untimately even be used for. That's why they kept harping on that because people kept asking them questions they don't know the answer to yet. I suspect in a year they will have a clear idea of what TeslaBot is meant to be doing.

As for replacing minimum wage jobs, good, why shouldn't they. I'm of the mind that all jobs should be replaced by automation, even mine. That's the only way to exit the rat-race that is life, and the only way to even think about getting rid of inequality. Every effort spent in a truly utopian society would be for a passion-based goal, not a survival or requirement based goal. All of the "downsides" or "potential problems" you're describing have already happened for jobs that have already been replaced in the past, and guess what, we're all still here.

The sooner we can move past mundane jobs, the sooner we can move past scarcity, and the sooner we can recognize work as something you only do because you're passionate about it. It has to happen for humanity to move forward.

2. If you worked with AI (even the half assed non-intelligent AI we currently have) you'd realise how humans are truly, truly, so inferior for mundane, reaction-based and computation-based tasks. Humans are only really good at being creative. Machines are better at everything else. I'm sure that's how Musk feels as well. Anyone who's seen the potential of FSD and says "ya but humans are gr8 drivur" is a fucking retard.

3. On the subject of self-driving cars and his wanting to make a future where non-self-driving cars are totally obsolete, I really wonder about the implications of that on a societal level as well. The death or decline of car culture, perhaps? How would NASCAR operate without drivers and still make the races interesting? For that matter, would street racers disappear? If your morning commute is more like sitting in a metal box while you're being driven to work, will employers start expecting you to get a "head start" on work before even showing up? With a car so heavily automated, what would happen if an EMP hit? Will hackers eventually figure out how to tamper peoples' cars for some sort of personal gain, such as maybe holding a car for ransom? How much control will companies have over what their cars report back, since it's been revealed they're already collecting driving data for AI improvement? Would we even know? And of course, as a person who thoroughly enjoys the act of driving for its own sake, I'd really be sad if the choice of keeping that capability ends up no longer being mine.

4. I find it absolutely hilarious how they tried to address the question of "companion TeslaBots" in the most professional manner possible, when I think they all knew that sexbots were on the mind.


In general, I try to keep an open mind about new technologies, but I also tend to approach things with a healthy dose of skepticism. Especially since we know that big companies don't always necessarily have the consumers' best interests at heart, I like to especially question the motives of the humans behind the screen before I consider buying a product. I feel like that's just common sense. With that being said, it'll be interesting how things unfold, and whether the claims here will really hold water over the coming decades. For now, I'll keep holding onto my old ass Honda till it disintegrates because I'm too broke for a new car anyway. XD

3. Yes

4. Ikr

At the end of the day, unless we all collectively and actively oppose progress or restrict it, every job will be replaced, every "fun and quirky" romanticized manual task like "driving" will be replaced, and there will be people who resist and hold out, but for how many generations? YOU may enjoy driving for the sake of driving, but 200 years later kids will not give a shit, so we mustn't impede progress for our own personal romantic reasons.

 

[SkullTraill]

The death or decline of car culture, perhaps?

Well yes, definitely. Like the "death of sword dueling culture"

How would NASCAR operate without drivers and still make the races interesting?

Likely there will be "events" or "sports" for car racing that may survive on due to people finding it interesting and worth processing, same as we have a sport for fencing now to replace daily real life duels.

For that matter, would street racers disappear?

Same as above.

If your morning commute is more like sitting in a metal box while you're being driven to work, will employers start expecting you to get a "head start" on work before even showing up?

Well, no, not really? They will maybe have less tolerence for not making it to work on time for car-related reasons, but of course that will be justified.

With a car so heavily automated, what would happen if an EMP hit?

As technology progresses, we will have to come up with better EMP protection. In fact it's already happening. Forget cars, lmfao, an EMP would take out the whole grid. So as solutions are found for those, they will make their way into cars as well. It will all be accounted for, all weaknesses will be addressed.

Will hackers eventually figure out how to tamper peoples' cars for some sort of personal gain, such as maybe holding a car for ransom?

Same as above.

How much control will companies have over what their cars report back, since it's been revealed they're already collecting driving data for AI improvement? Would we even know?

Does it even really matter? It's already happened. It's already so far beyond our control how much of our once "private" information is now in the hands of governments and corporations. It's futile to resist this. It's inevitable, and won't really affect your life too much in the grand scheme of things.

And of course, as a person who thoroughly enjoys the act of driving for its own sake, I'd really be sad if the choice of keeping that capability ends up no longer being mine.

It won't happen in your lifetime. Electric cars will only fully replace analog cars when society as a whole drops the idea of petrol cars as being cool and romantic.

 

[Scottish_Pride]

Does it even really matter? It's already happened. It's already so far beyond our control how much of our once "private" information is now in the hands of governments and corporations. It's futile to resist this. It's inevitable, and won't really affect your life too much in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not saying it's not inevitable. But that doesn't necessarily make it right, and we're in for a world of hurt if those with access to so much information felt like abusing it. Knowledge really is power.

As for replacing minimum wage jobs, good, why shouldn't they. I'm of the mind that all jobs should be replaced by automation, even mine. That's the only way to exit the rat-race that is life, and the only way to even think about getting rid of inequality. Every effort spent in a truly utopian society would be for a passion-based goal, not a survival or requirement based goal. All of the "downsides" or "potential problems" you're describing have already happened for jobs that have already been replaced in the past, and guess what, we're all still here.

Not saying technology shouldn't streamline things. But we're gonna have to very drastically change how the economy handles it, in order for the process to continue at this pace without backlash. Because at least in America over the past several decades, worker productivity has more than doubled due to technology. At the same time, the average worker receives drastically less compensation for it. (In actual adjusted-for-inflation buying power, not gross dollars) It's the people at the tippy top who've been quietly reaping most of that added financial boon, not the people actually doing the remaining work. The latter are just stuck in the same rat race on a much higher difficulty level than before. At least so far, generally speaking. And it's a highly unsustainable way to deal with the situation. Practically the economic equivalent of a runaway train heading for a cliff. It's going to have to change with the times.

 

[Maulbeere]

2. I find it really interesting how Elon Musk likes to insinuate that humans are really inferior to machines in the end, such as with skills like driving. Can't really put my finger on it, but the whole attitude he projects makes me wonder what he really thinks about human beings on a personal level.

This got my attention as well. It seems to come from the perspective that there is no higher self (or whatever we want to call it) that does have access to more than physical reality.

I don't think an AI is going to be able to remote view anything, or create egregores, or do energy working, apport or manifest/demanifest objects or develop siddhis, which rely on interection between spirit and various layers of being including but not limited to the physical. They're advanced enough that most humans can't do some of them without decades of training.

The comment I think smacks of the "religion of science" of the type that ostracises "fringe" research, and ignores the wealth of information on the esoteric, including stuff documented by the CIA and available in FOIA reports as verified.

 

[SkullTraill]

I'm not saying it's not inevitable. But that doesn't necessarily make it right, and we're in for a world of hurt if those with access to so much information felt like abusing it. Knowledge really is power.

True, we just have to come up with laws, guidelines, and structures to prevent the abuse.

Not saying technology shouldn't streamline things. But we're gonna have to very drastically change how the economy handles it, in order for the process to continue at this pace without backlash. Because at least in America over the past several decades, worker productivity has more than doubled due to technology. At the same time, the average worker receives drastically less compensation for it. (In actual adjusted-for-inflation buying power, not gross dollars) It's the people at the tippy top who've been quietly reaping most of that added financial boon, not the people actually doing the remaining work. The latter are just stuck in the same rat race on a much higher difficulty level than before. At least so far, generally speaking. And it's a highly unsustainable way to deal with the situation. Practically the economic equivalent of a runaway train heading for a cliff. It's going to have to change with the times.

Oh, I 100% agree, we do have to change how the economy handles it. And that will happen more or less naturally over time. The only way to remove power from people at the top is to have no benefit to them in subjugating the masses, and menial jobs being replaced is part of that. As long as your labor is cheap and the best option, those at the top will engineer society to keep you at the bottom and reduce social mobility as much as possible so that their source of labor isn't cut out. When their source of labor is robots, when human labor is no longer needed, that is finally when we can move past a scarcity/fiat-money based economy.

Until then, there will always be value in exploiting the masses, and nothing will change.

This got my attention as well. It seems to come from the perspective that there is no higher self (or whatever we want to call it) that does have access to more than physical reality.

I don't think an AI is going to be able to remote view anything, or create egregores, or do energy working, apport or manifest/demanifest objects or develop siddhis, which rely on interection between spirit and various layers of being including but not limited to the physical. They're advanced enough that most humans can't do some of them without decades of training.

The comment I think smacks of the "religion of science" of the type that ostracises "fringe" research, and ignores the wealth of information on the esoteric, including stuff documented by the CIA and available in FOIA reports as verified.

This is a car company. They're making a robot too... for labor... not an occult machine.

No one is saying robots or AI are better than humans overall. They're simply saying they're better than humans at some labor/reaction/computation based tasks, like: driving, lifting heavy weights, etc.

I'm sure no one is even going to attempt to tackle creative/emotional issues with robots, so forget about spiritual/occult practices. That's not what anyone's gunning for. Just repeatable, manual, heavy-duty tasks.

 

[8Lou1]

Totally was not going to reply in this topic, but since we are talking about getting humans of the workfloor i have to say something.

Skull, i get were you coming from and i you sell it nice, but how do you think all these people without work are going to pay for food and shelter???

Also the sell the AI as something new and better. Havent you seen the military AI????

This might look like a good idea, but thats only in the eyes of people who think hunger means i didnt have my Frappuccino on time this day.

Worldwide there is no balance whatsoever concerning making life better as a whole, they are making life better for the few.

I understand that poverty in your country is not the same as poverty in my country. But at the same time i realize that new ideas are looked at different. Here we hardly have any manual labor left.

 

[8Lou1]

If i want to live i need a job, i cant just go out and start to sell homemade bread. There are rules and regulations preventing me to do that.

So now mr. Musk is creating even more competition on the workfloor and they are for sure kicking out their living colleagues, simple because AI dont get tired, dont need sickleave, can work 24 hours, etc.

I also know humans. If you think that AI will be used for goodness then id say do some research on mr. Tesla and how and why he died. (And the fucker musk is even using his name.) there are many other examples where good inventions are prevented to come further into being unless one cooperates and let, as scotish said it so nice, 'The Man' take control over it.

 

[8Lou1]

Also what do you think about the sexbot and world regulation on births??? I know some nice sextoys if they make them even nicer to the point of 'this is wayyy better then a human' you think they are going to say nah we love humans??? of course not, they are already telling you they dont like humans anymore as human laborers, all that is left is ending the human race as a species.

The fact that they already have approved AI and sell it like that, should tell you enough about future freedom.

 

[8Lou1]

@skull: 1: how do you get a smiley instead of a thumbs up, there? I really need to know..

And since you put it there: why the fuck are you laughing at someones opinion and advice to do research???

 

[SkullTraill]

Totally was not going to reply in this topic, but since we are talking about getting humans of the workfloor i have to say something.

Skull, i get were you coming from and i you sell it nice, but how do you think all these people without work are going to pay for food and shelter???

Also the sell the AI as something new and better. Havent you seen the military AI????

This might look like a good idea, but thats only in the eyes of people who think hunger means i didnt have my Frappuccino on time this day.

Worldwide there is no balance whatsoever concerning making life better as a whole, they are making life better for the few.

I understand that poverty in your country is not the same as poverty in my country. But at the same time i realize that new ideas are looked at different. Here we hardly have any manual labor left.

My ultimate goal or vision for humanity is to move past having to "pay" for things, as I already stated.

What I want is a post-scarcity society AKA a society where nothing is scarce.

How can this be achieved? The ONLY way to achieve this is through mining in space with robots.

In the short term, yes, jobs will be lost. But that's been the way throughout history.

Invented cars? Jobs lost.

Invented steam engine? Jobs lost.

Invented computers? Jobs lost.

So on, and so forth.

Self driving cars and AIs will cause some jobs to be lost... yes, it can't be fucking helped. Get a better skill/job. That's how it's always been, and that's how it always will be until we are a post-scarcity civilization.

Imagine having 10 of your own multipurpose robots that can go to space, mine the resources, come back to earth, and manufacture whatever you want... You don't rely on anyone else, so you don't have to pay anyone else.

Is it simple? No.

Will it happen in the near future? No.

But it is what we MUST strive for. Because working for others will always create inequality, manipulation and abuse.

What we need for a post-scarcity civillization is: Space travel + Robots + AI

ALL of which Elon Musk is working on. There is no one I trust more to do this than Elon Musk.

If i want to live i need a job, i cant just go out and start to sell homemade bread. There are rules and regulations preventing me to do that.

That will have to change.

So now mr. Musk is creating even more competition on the workfloor and they are for sure kicking out their living colleagues, simple because AI dont get tired, dont need sickleave, can work 24 hours, etc.

Yeah, so can you blame him for creating a superior worker?

Also what do you think about the sexbot and world regulation on births??? I know some nice sextoys if they make them even nicer to the point of 'this is wayyy better then a human' you think they are going to say nah we love humans??? of course not, they are already telling you they dont like humans anymore as human laborers, all that is left is ending the human race as a species.

The fact that they already have approved AI and sell it like that, should tell you enough about future freedom.

I have no opinions on sex bots, but I 100% agree that birth rates must be controlled. One planet is not meant to support 7 billion capitalists. There is only room for 1 billion at most, and that must be enforced.

 

[SkullTraill]

@skull: 1: how do you get a smiley instead of a thumbs up, there? I really need to know..

And since you put it there: why the fuck are you laughing at someones opinion and advice to do research???

Press and hold the "like" button, or if you're on a PC, hover over it. Don't post these questions in threads, PM me next time

 

[8Lou1]

I was planning on asking you in pm, but since you laughed at an opinion, it became a different question. Of which you didnt give an answer btw. And yes i know bladiebla on topic.

For the rest i totally disagree with your view on AI, birth control, taking over the universe, etc.

Also i dont 'MUST' anything, ever and i am not a 'we'.

Machinery is not a better worker. To keep it simple as example: the difference between home food and take out is love. You say you were in england and sri lanka. Didnt you have the slightest feeling of were people are more happy, where there was still family life, where there was better food, etc.?

I know and have felt the difference and i rather be me doing heavy labor by creating myself then waiting for an AI to do these things and make life taste like McDonald's.

 

[SkullTraill]

I was planning on asking you in pm, but since you laughed at an opinion, it became a different question. Of which you didnt give an answer btw. And yes i know bladiebla on topic.

I did answer.

For the rest i totally disagree with your view on AI, birth control, taking over the universe, etc.

Feel free to disagree, I don't mind.

Also i dont 'MUST' anything, ever and i am not a 'we'.

It's ok to be wrong, in modern society we accept that kind of thing.

Machinery is not a better worker. To keep it simple as example: the difference between home food and take out is love. You say you were in england and sri lanka. Didnt you have the slightest feeling of were people are more happy, where there was still family life, where there was better food, etc.?

Depends on the task. In most manual tasks, machinery is better than human. You can disagree, and you would be wrong.

There was way better food in England.

Family life, well, that's a different topic.

I know and have felt the difference and i rather be me doing heavy labor by creating myself then waiting for an AI to do these things and make life taste like McDonald's.

Forget food... but driving, stacking shelves, lifting heavy boxes... all of those tasks are better suited to a machine/AI. It'll do it better than you.

 

[SkullTraill]

Oops, my bad, I guess I didn't actually answer the full question:

@skull: 1: how do you get a smiley instead of a thumbs up, there? I really need to know..

And since you put it there: why the fuck are you laughing at someones opinion and advice to do research???

I wasn't laughing at your opinion, I was laughing at the way you talked about others... specifically the way you said "fucker musk"

Also who says I can't laugh at your opinion? What research have you done? Not more than Elon Musk surely. So if you can call him a fucker and act like you know more than he does, don't expect me not to laugh at that.

 

[8Lou1]

I did a hell more of research then just that. I also have been on the icecold vampiric IT trail, so i know exactly why i say what i say.

The disagreeing i totally dont mind, it already was the reason i didnt want to get involved in this topic. But since i have, i now have to say that discussing is hardly possible when my opinion is said to be wrong. Which in all actuality isnt even possible. (linguistically an opinion cant be right or wrong, its an opinion) So ill leave it at that.

 

[SkullTraill]

I did a hell more of research then just that.

Well then present your research. This isn't a research thread, but if you're saying you can't be wrong because of your research, then show it, scientifically.

I also have been on the icecold vampiric IT trail,

WTF

so i know exactly why i say what i say

Hmmm...

Which in all actuality isnt even possible. (linguistically an opinion cant be right or wrong, its an opinion) So ill leave it at that.

An opinion like "I like the smell of roses" cannot be wrong. But if your opinion is "the sun rises from the west" or "there are 48 hours in an earth day" then those are factual claims that are wrong, whether or not you say they are your opinions.

If you said "I don't like the emotionless nature of machines" then that would be a pure opinion. I would say I diagree, and leave it at that. You're free to have that opinion.

If you said "In my opinion, AI and machinery replacing jobs will be bad for humanity" then that is a factual statement being masqueraded as an opinion. You are NOT free to have this opinion, and I will criticize it.