[Opinion] The Foundational Principles of Franz Bardon's System

[weirdbird]

He says something like dont proceed until you can do this perfectly, regarding keeping a perfect clear mind for a bascially indefinite period.

If I remember correctly, 10 minutes was the goal? Bardon does mention that you have to achieve a "sweeping success" in the balancing of your elemental qualities before moving forward to the exercise sets 3 and 4 which is one of the more difficult requirements in his system. I always found the elemental theory and the elemental breathing to be the cornerstones of his practice.

People need to learn to "separate the creator from their work".

I have to agree with Beyond on this one, we most certainly should not separate the creator from their work, especially when it comes to instruction manuals. With that being said, doctors do get sick and make poor lifestyle choices while still being able to treat other people, not all dietitians are fit and not all fitness instructors are muscular, but I'd certainly prefer mine to be. In the same vein, I believe it's a good idea to scrutinize the author's credibility while studying the occult.
IIH is an interesting book in any case (regardless of Bardon's health and his history of being arrested for tax evasion), and most of the exercises you can find in it you can also encounter elsewhere so the information there has a fairly big overlap with other modern systems.

Now, Crowley is a wholly different case - being healthy and rich was not his explicit goal, and we simply do not know how him dying fits in with his entire Great Work, so maybe he did know what was coming and chose not to change the course of events. You can draw the parallels with Carlos Castaneda and his unexpected and mysterious demise for example - did he die or did he truly shift into the Third Attention, leaving our world behind? If we are to look for a teacher among the semi-public figures who do achieve results through their use of magic, then I suppose Gordon White and Rufus Opus would be fairly high on our ranking, although making an income by selling talismans feels a bit like cheating. Besides that, dying in the occult circles does not always mean actually dying - faking one's own death to get out of the social obligations was a favored trick by the taoist practitioners.

But I personally feel that careful study of Eliphas Levi, particularly his Dogma et Ritual are essential to understanding the likes of Bardon and other popular 20th century magi.

I can absolutely see the parallels, and I am convinced Bardon did read Levi at some point of his life, but to be brutally honest, I am a big Eliphas Levi hater so I wouldn't recommend it as an entry point into the 20th century occultism over something more foundational, even Agrippa.

 

[WonderFire]

Bardon's techniques were taken up by other people who report success with them and bits and pieces of IIH keep popping up everywhere. The ultimate test of any technique is if its usable IRL, especially by people other than its author. So, I judge him positively.

 

[taschr]

One of the things that endlessly frustrated me when I was beginning was either the inconsistencies of the famous historical books or how obscure they were. Comparing with something like Buddhism which is extremely simple, but with work reveals endless depth, these systems of abstract symbolism and correspondences seemed more confusing and frustrating than anything. With Bardon one has a much simpler framework to begin with, where one who has developed the skills necessary can see and feel immediate results, whatever those results mean. For this reason I found it an extremely useful introduction to certain visualization practices that absolutely opened up parts of my mind which allowed easier entry into the more abstract texts. I still maintain that one can pull out what is useful and leave the rest behind without needing to fall into some kind of guru worship or whatever.

I'm many years into my practice now, having explored comparative religion and most esoteric lineages for over a decade, and I still feel this way about much of what I read. I still utilize what I learned with IIH, even though I may not be working precisely as Bardon instructed. I don't feel this makes it useless at all, if we take this mentality then one can find flaws in all esoteric thought that make one question if its worth pursuing.

I commonly see harsh criticism applied towards more modern writers, Bardon and those from the Golden Dawn lineage have all been heavily derided for cultural biases that were common in the early 1900s. We now supposedly know better, but ancient books clearly have the same cultural biases, we just ascribe value to them because they are older and more mysterious. To me there is little difference in the source of something if I can apply it to my own practice and produce results with it. With Bardon I am explicitly looking to induce more mystical states, I don't care if I can't grant myself phyiscal immortality with his work. I'm not sure why we need an all or nothing approach when there is clearly no one book or school of thought that provides everything and produces no doubt and just works everytime.

 

[Beyond Everything]

Now, Crowley is a wholly different case - being healthy and rich was not his explicit goal,

Actually he did his portion of failed money magic.

Post automatically merged: Dec 11, 2025

where does one start in that case, to stand on their own two feet?

I hope you see the irony in asking this...but more seriously, this is a very deep and important topic that is basically not covered anywhere.

In order to truly progress, we need to tap parts of the self that are not normally accessed (including by standard esoteric techniques). Dependency is a killer for this, and there are all sorts of dependency traps in spirituality. These range from limiting thoughtforms one takes in by adopting certain philosophical/religious stances to the detrimental energetic effects of egregores.

We need to dive deeper and deeper within ourselves and root out the dependencies and passivity that is there. First you have to take a scalpel to yourself, take a microscope to yourself, take a searchlight to yourself. You have to not only develop a true 'I' but develop the ability to operate in liminal states and the ability to ferret out things energetically.

 

[mag1caljeet]

Actually he did his portion of failed money magic.

Post automatically merged: Dec 11, 2025

I hope you see the irony in asking this...but more seriously, this is a very deep and important topic that is basically not covered anywhere.

In order to truly progress, we need to tap parts of the self that are not normally accessed (including by standard esoteric techniques). Dependency is a killer for this, and there are all sorts of dependency traps in spirituality. These range from limiting thoughtforms one takes in by adopting certain philosophical/religious stances to the detrimental energetic effects of egregores.

We need to dive deeper and deeper within ourselves and root out the dependencies and passivity that is there. First you have to take a scalpel to yourself, take a microscope to yourself, take a searchlight to yourself. You have to not only develop a true 'I' but develop the ability to operate in liminal states and the ability to ferret out things energetically.

Yes haha, I realised how ironic it would be to ask this, but I figured it wouldn't hurt.

But it sounds like taking the old maxim "Know thySelf" to the purest and deepest level. This sounds like a long and daunting process.

And by ferret things out energetically, I assume you mean in the internal landscape of consciousness right?

 

[Angelkesfarl]

His ill health preceded his political persecutions, so I'm not sure what your point there is. Speaking of which, I see none of the spirits who fortell the future had the courtesy to tell him emigration would be a smart idea lol Nor did the letters he said provide such perfect guidance and clairvoyance avail him to make the kind of moves others did to avoid such things. I think it's entirely fair to look at claims made in books versus actual results. To not do so is approaching the level of a religious zombie's blind faith.

"We have already touched upon this (in my earlier replies), but allow me to deepen your understanding of the 'Cosmic Law' here. You are absolutely correct that we cannot separate the dietician from the diet; however, we can and must separate the Cosmic Law of the Elements from Franz Bardon’s physical body. If he failed to utilize the 'vehicle' perfectly, the design integrity of that vehicle remains intact. Our purpose is not to justify Bardon’s health, but to distill the 'timeless mechanism' of the Law from his fleeting human experience. Let us focus on the methodology that grants us Sovereignty, not on the human who partially failed to apply it."

"We are in total agreement that demonstrable performance and tangible results are the only true metrics, and you strike gold when you ask: 'What results did they actually achieve?' > The secret here is that the most potent magical achievements are rarely documented publicly; they are preserved as 'inherited achievements' within dedicated schools. > Regarding the potential use of spirits to propagate a specific agenda, you are approaching the genuine reality of the greater Mystery Schools. Bardon provided the Map (the IIH system), but the missing arcana concern the 'Spiritual Security Framework' that protects the practitioner from external manipulation (or political persecution) that he himself faced. Therefore, we must integrate his system with a robust 'Protection Mechanism'; this is precisely what leads us to the science of Saturnian Sigils which guarantee that essential security and final manifestation."

 

[mag1caljeet]

"We have already touched upon this (in my earlier replies), but allow me to deepen your understanding of the 'Cosmic Law' here. You are absolutely correct that we cannot separate the dietician from the diet; however, we can and must separate the Cosmic Law of the Elements from Franz Bardon’s physical body. If he failed to utilize the 'vehicle' perfectly, the design integrity of that vehicle remains intact. Our purpose is not to justify Bardon’s health, but to distill the 'timeless mechanism' of the Law from his fleeting human experience. Let us focus on the methodology that grants us Sovereignty, not on the human who partially failed to apply it."

"We are in total agreement that demonstrable performance and tangible results are the only true metrics, and you strike gold when you ask: 'What results did they actually achieve?' > The secret here is that the most potent magical achievements are rarely documented publicly; they are preserved as 'inherited achievements' within dedicated schools. > Regarding the potential use of spirits to propagate a specific agenda, you are approaching the genuine reality of the greater Mystery Schools. Bardon provided the Map (the IIH system), but the missing arcana concern the 'Spiritual Security Framework' that protects the practitioner from external manipulation (or political persecution) that he himself faced. Therefore, we must integrate his system with a robust 'Protection Mechanism'; this is precisely what leads us to the science of Saturnian Sigils which guarantee that essential security and final manifestation."

can you elaborate?

 

[frater_pan]

Maybe i took him too literally, but had Initiation into Hermetics 25 years ago. He says something like dont proceed until you can do this perfectly, regarding keeping a perfect clear mind for a bascially indefinite period. I revisited it numerous times over the years, but would always fall away there. Since using other teachings i have progresses a lot in my occult studies, but clear mind for an indefinite period is something i could still not muster consistently.

IMO he exaggerated the necessity of keeping a perfectly clear mind. I know few people who can do this perfectly as he seems to have insisted. Intention + follow though is much more important. Don't be discouraged.

Post automatically merged: Dec 13, 2025

It would have been even better if Bardon included a specific concentration exercise in the book (just as he included specific exercises for pretty much everything else in the book). He kind of leaves it like a free for all of "choose your own focus point" but to me that's kind of annoying because now it's like a game of luck. ...

Would be great if there was an entire topic dedicated to it. I wish there was some already well known method that led to consistent and permanent improvement.

You can use any object as an object of concentration. The more common objects in the occult tend to be candle flame (this goes way, way back) although you have to be very careful. Some people can become completely focused on the flame and there could be a fire emergency. Other light sources should work equally well (for the concentration). Focusing on an incense stick should also work well, particularly the glowing nub. . Pentagrams will also definitely work and may provide the added energetic qualities from the pentagram itself (this is my main concern with using non-flame light sources). Visualizing a candle flame at your heart will work nicely. You can also focus on various images, esp. spirit images for spirits you have a connection with or on colors.

Post automatically merged: Dec 13, 2025

You can also focus on energy points in your body but this is potentially dangerous. Then there is the standard focus on the breath which is outwardly indistinguishable from any other kind of seated meditation.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

can you elaborate?

Yes, for clarification, please add this topic

The Grand Triangle: Al-Būnī's Secret and the Sibtī Path to Celestial Manifestation Beyond the 3 \times 3 Saturn Square

The Grand Triangle: Al-Būnī's Secret and the Sibtī Path to Celestial Manifestation Beyond the 3 \times 3 Saturn Square Esteemed brothers and sisters of this blessed assembly,The duty of the serious Seeker has always been to exercise secrecy and caution concerning the deeper insights one carries...

wizardforums.com

 

[Beyond Everything]

But it sounds like taking the old maxim "Know thySelf" to the purest and deepest level. This sounds like a long and daunting process.

Well, that's part of it. We can't fully know ourselves while incarnated in a biological vessel. But we both crystallize an I and keep increasing our awareness of these energetic factors.

And by ferret things out energetically, I assume you mean in the internal landscape of consciousness right?

That's a tricky question because then you have to start drawing the line between internal and external for some amorphous energetic phenomena. But clearly consciousness/awareness plays a role in dealing with such things.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

I can absolutely see the parallels, and I am convinced Bardon did read Levi at some point of his life, but to be brutally honest, I am a big Eliphas Levi hater so I wouldn't recommend it as an entry point into the 20th century occultism over something more foundational, even Agrippa.

You are absolutely right in what you said, my son. That Eliphas Levi is just dressing up words and mixing things up; he is not someone you should trust or use as your gateway into the true world of spirituality. I agree with your view, and I don't digest his work either because it's full of empty decorations that only mislead beginners who are just starting their path into 20th-century occultism.

Look, my son, if you want to drink pure water, you go to the source. That man is like someone giving you seawater; it looks like it's sparkling, but it only makes you thirstier. If you want the real deal and the solid foundation that won't collapse, there is Agrippa. He is the root and the spring; that is where you find balanced knowledge without boasting or lies. Those old masters had few words, but they carried blessings, unlike this Levi who just wants to look impressive while he is merely a middleman mixing things without a proper measure.

I encourage you to stay away from him and stick to the foundational works like Agrippa. That is where your inner sight will be enlightened, and you will realize that spiritual knowledge is about dignity and awe, not just flashy talk. May God be pleased with you; always look for what smells of truth and avoid those who pretend to know everything while they are just copying from here and there without a proper covenant.

 

[Beyond Everything]

, there is Agrippa. He is the root and the spring; that is where you find balanced knowledge without boasting or lies. Those old masters had few words, but they carried blessings,

Agrippa ended up in poverty and spent time in prison. He also didn't even make it to age 50. What makes him a 'master'? This is all just the usual memetic, unthinking passing down of 'esteemed knowledge'. More deeply, did he achieve an immortal subtle body? I see zero evidence of that in his work. Ergo- not a master. Yet he is foundational for a lot of occultists. Shows how superficial the entire thing is.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

Agrippa ended up in poverty and spent time in prison. He also didn't even make it to age 50. What makes him a 'master'? This is all just the usual memetic, unthinking passing down of 'esteemed knowledge'. More deeply, did he achieve an immortal subtle body? I see zero evidence of that in his work. Ergo- not a master. Yet he is foundational for a lot of occultists. Shows how superficial the entire thing is.

"To equate 'Spiritual Mastery' with material wealth or physical longevity is a fundamentally flawed perspective that betrays a purely materialistic understanding of the Esoteric Sciences.

First, one must realize that a Master—regardless of their depth of knowledge—remains subject to Divine Decree. The Creator may test the body with illness or the pocket with poverty to demonstrate a supreme truth: that no amount of knowledge or spiritual potency can ever bypass the absolute Circle of Divine Will. Affliction is not an indication of failure; it is often the crucible in which the spirit is refined.

Second, we must contextualize. Agrippa lived in an era where medical science was in its infancy. More importantly, his focus was never on preserving the ephemeral flesh or hoarding gold. He was a philosopher who sacrificed his worldly comfort to decode and transmit the Occult Philosophy for future generations.

Third, Mastery is measured by Impact, not by physical survival. Agrippa laid the foundational architecture that allowed subsequent seekers to ascend. As for the 'Immortal Subtle Body,' evidence of its achievement is not found in death certificates, but in the enduring resonance of his intellectual and spiritual light, which continues to guide practitioners centuries later. A Master is one who provides the 'Map' for others, even if their own feet burned while drawing it in the sands of time

 

[Beyond Everything]

Third, Mastery is measured by Impact, not by physical survival. Agrippa laid the foundational architecture that allowed subsequent seekers to ascend.

No he didn't. It's not even present in his work. He had no clue about real immortality.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

No he didn't. It's not even present in his work. He had no clue about real immortality.

"I invite you to expand upon your viewpoint; I am eager to explore the depths of your reasoning."

 

[stalkinghyena]

Agrippa's Three Books "program" is basically patterned on the Platonic Divided Line, which is essentially to realize one is already immortal, one with the Source, within the framework of the Christian Logos. This framework, due to restrictions of the ideology and terminology of the 16th century, obscures the ancient doctrine of reincarnation of the "Soul" into the fleshly Hylic sublunar world of particular things. Plotinus is constantly referred in the text for a reason.

In the simplest terms, the Occult Philosophy is for the Ratio, or reasoning mind to work out. One must move away from the base reality of appearances (Platonically, Eikasia) into the investigation of Nature (Book I). From there one tries to reach for the state of Mania, (via mathesis, celestial magic, Book 2), which is essentially theurgy and at best heterodox for the time, but broaching on true heresy, of which Cornelius was well aware. The final step is Felicitas, (via religious ceremony on the foundation of natural and celestial magic, Book III) that is the path towards the true realization and incarnated union with the Divine which can only be expressed in terms of "agnosis" - beyond all knowing or expression, aka the "via negativa" which could be compared to Ain Soph or even Nirvana in some ways - though I think Cornelius would deny any "snuffing out".

I like to compare this last to the conversations of Poimandres and Hermes Trismegistus regarding the Nous. The "immortality" ("that which sees and hears within you") always was there to begin with, one is just forgetful of it, clinging in the world of appearances and craving repetitions of gratifications that give one a sort of shadow existence that one confuses as real. Agrippa's magical theory is about working through these shadows, but this relies on deep reading and contemplation of the people and figures he points to. He used a lot of figurative language and parables, but so did Jesus.

Not bad for someone in his early 20's, when he first wrote it.

But back to Bardon, you can see a similar telos in his book on spirit evocation, albeit with more modern theosophical influences. The DNA is there. One might say that the generations of teachers, whatever their successes or failures, in the most subtle way, have always been and are still talking to Poimandres!

 

[Beyond Everything]

which is essentially to realize one is already immortal,

lol, that's a nice fantasy n all, but no one would undertake the extremely arduous practices of things like alchemy if that were the case. Immortality is something earned, not given.

If one wishes to bring in reincarnation or rebirth, then it obviously falls flat on its face, as the connection of one life to another is not the continuous awareness and identity one would expect of an immortal.

 

[stalkinghyena]

lol, that's a nice fantasy n all, but no one would undertake the extremely arduous practices of things like alchemy if that were the case.

Kind of reminds of Charles Fort's perspective that if you want to be dismissive, then say you are speaking for everybody.

Immortality is something earned, not given.

Spoken like a true Calvinist!

If one wishes to bring in reincarnation or rebirth, then it obviously falls flat on its face, as the connection of one life to another is not the continuous awareness and identity one would expect of an immortal.

It can be viewed as a big sempiternal game, admittedly, but nothing is earned through an expectation. At best this is the lower end of Pistis, but one is still looking at shadows on a wall.
A small case for the a priori - sometimes one's true nature just "jumps out at you." One knew it all along...

 

[Beyond Everything]

Kind of reminds of Charles Fort's perspective that if you want to be dismissive, then say you are speaking for everybody.

Fair enough, I suppose, but I'm thinking here specifically of Taoist Alchemy. They have a (relatively) clear perspective that most westerners are pretty clueless about. And those westerners console themselves with bs about already being immortal. When in fact they are just getting recycled post mortem.

The whole 'greek philosophy' angle is a sop to the intellect and emotions, but real immortality involves the actual creation of a higher subtle body. All the rest is just metapuke...And peak experiences ('Hey I feel immortal!') ain't the same thing.

 

[BBBB]

I was overlooking Franz Bardon for a while, untill I saw a gentleman called Mark Rasmus, who combines Hermeticism with Taoist practices. And he is teaching all of Bardon's system as far as I can tell. You can google him for a lot of free videos on youtube. Now I think the system is worthwhile.