[Opinion] The Goetic Debate: Psychological Illusions vs. Objective Entities

[Robert Ramsay]

"In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist. It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them." - Aleister Crowley

"If a person defines a thing to be real, then the consequences of that thing ARE real." - The Thomas Theorem

The kicker is that some of those consequences can be magical effects, which can easily be attributed to the thing you defined to be real, rather than the magical process itself; mistaking the map for the territory.

 

[armageddonz1]

As someone who has seen spirits in physical form and interacted with them in physical form without even summoning them (nature spirits, spirits of the dead), they are very real and external to us. However, when summoning, they do seem to take the form we expect them to. Aaron Leitch calls it reality tunnels. So, if I summon Lucifer believing he is a demon, he would come through the reality tunnel where he will take the form of a demon. But if I call him an angel, He will come as such. Thus, there is an interaction with the external and the internal. The macrocosm is connected to the microcosm inside the magician, which can be summed up as "as above so below". But no, they are not illusions or just products of our mind. Their faces might be, though.

 

[Ingulbjörn]

As someone who has seen spirits in physical form and interacted with them in physical form without even summoning them (nature spirits, spirits of the dead), they are very real and external to us. However, when summoning, they do seem to take the form we expect them to. Aaron Leitch calls it reality tunnels. So, if I summon Lucifer believing he is a demon, he would come through the reality tunnel where he will take the form of a demon. But if I call him an angel, He will come as such. Thus, there is an interaction with the external and the internal. The macrocosm is connected to the microcosm inside the magician, which can be summed up as "as above so below". But no, they are not illusions or just products of our mind. Their faces might be, though.

How do spirits look like when not summoned?

 

[armageddonz1]

How do spirits look like when not summoned?

One shapeshifted into my family member, one looked like a human caked in mud, one looked like humanoid but black fur like hair all over the body, red eyes and no other distinct features, one looked like a man who didn't have a head but had eyes on his chest. Later on, i learned this guy looked like the blemmies creature of folklore but l am from Asia.

 

[Ingulbjörn]

That’s interesting. Do you think that’s the microcosm or that the spirits could somehow shapeshift into someone familiar to you?