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The Magical Jesus

KjEno186

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It's a fascinating look into whether or not Jesus was a magician. The author does try to maintain an objective perspective, given that the mainstream narrative is on the whole, anti-occult. To clarify, magic and the occult are only acceptable to secular society as portrayed in fantasy entertainment: books, television, movies. Based on information presented by the author, religious anti-occult beliefs had a major part to play in how the gospels Matthew and Luke were written.

"... there are certain passages, which we will examine later in this thesis, in which Matthew and Luke appear to have taken great care to remove evidence of suspicious practices and insert anti-magical apologetic material. This suggests a considerable degree of embarrassment concerning the implications of magic present in the omitted text and this is understandable since magic carried severely negative connotations in the ancient world and it featured heavily in anti-Christian polemic. Although certain passages have been edited to remove implications of magic, elements of magical techniques still remain elsewhere in both Matthew and Luke."​
Redactions, omissions, and outright historical revisionism are, of course, quite common in the Bible as a whole, including the "Old Testament." The actual sex worshipping, polytheistic history of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, aka the Land of Canaan, had to be rewritten by the resettlement establishment of the post Babylonian occupation.

After some thought as to 'why' it has happened this way, from a magical perspective it would seem that the new Jewish priesthood sought to create and strengthen a new national egregore in a region where the Greek empire was such a strong homogenizing force. Likewise, the budding Christian priesthood, dealing with persecutions and threats to its existence in the Roman empire sought to unify a wide range of ethnic groups under a new egregore of faith in Christ. Both had to find ways to distinguish themselves sufficiently from "the others" such that the egregores could feed on the differences, be those oppositions and persecutions or obedience and sacrifice to the 'new' rules.

Of course, back then people could make up any shit they liked, and there would always be enough people who believed it to carry it forward from then on as The Truth. Needless to say, if you meditate on that particular concept enough, you see that there is 'nothing new under the Sun..."
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I had not read much of the text before making the first post, I admit. However, it is quite fascinating to read such a well-researched summary of the history of magic in the Middle East and Europe. Perhaps I had merely taken for granted that Persian, Greek, and Roman period cultures more or less accepted magic. I thought that prohibitions on some kinds of magic were more likely to be a Jewish invention circa the Roman empire. Nevertheless, as the text points out:

"Laws prohibiting the practice of magic grew in severity throughout the ancient world and whether the behaviour of an individual was deemed to be religious or magical was often a matter of life or death.​
...​
In addition to prohibition under Jewish law, the practice of magic was a criminal offence under Roman law during Jesus’ lifetime and strict laws ensured that the magician would be severely reprimanded or even executed if his activities were discovered. The ancient Roman legislation known as the Laws of the Twelve Tables (composed in the fifth-century BC) formed an important foundation for all subsequent Roman law and laid down penalties against those who use magical incantations.​
...​
In the light of these stringent laws prohibiting the practice of magic, the loyal followers of miracle-workers were faced with a problem; how to convince the populace that their miracle-worker derived his powers from authorised, approved sources. Even if a clear distinction between magic and religion did not originally exist in the ancient world, there were certainly many individuals busy constructing a distinction in order to avoid persecution and it is these points of contention that separate the behaviours typically associated with the magician from that of the miracle-worker. Certain groups and individuals proposed definitions of ‘magic’ that were undoubtedly weak attempts to redefine the word in order to allow them to continue with activities that were otherwise strictly forbidden. For example, the rabbinic leaders in early Judaism were fully aware that their ritual techniques suggested to observers that they had control over supernatural powers and that this practice was explicitly condemned by the Hebrew bible. Therefore, in order to guard their activities against a charge of magic, the Rabbis simply reinvented a definition of magic that allowed them to indulge in their rituals while still condemning the practice of magic by the outsider. The Sanhedrin stated that performing magic is punishable, while simply appearing to perform magic, or creating an illusion of magic, is not an offence (bSanh. 67-68). Furthermore, the Sanhedrin claimed that any act which benefited others could not be considered to be magic (bSanh. 67b) and finally, in order to eradicate any suspicions regarding their activities, they added that anyone wishing to join them must be able to perform magic (bSanh. 17)."​
 
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Okay, so where does the unwritten Qabalah come into play?
Nice writeup :)
 

Roma

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Was Jesus an historical figure - or is the Christian account a composite of previous world saviours?

For example Heru (son of a god) raised Asar from the dead and Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead.
 
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And the account of Osiris and ... Gilgamesh? Ur was quite a popular city back in Genesis, one possible reason for the similarity to the Babylonian account?
 

KjEno186

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Do you have any comments about the content of the linked web article @Diluculo_DelFuego ?

For example, let's say Jesus was just a teacher and never performed miracles (a euphemism for magic, really). Would anyone in Asia Minor have cared about him more than established monotheistic religions like Judaism and Zoroastrianism?

I'd propose that without the magic, Jesus would have been a footnote in history, if even that. Jesus appealed to the simple people, the fishermen and carpenters, not the scholars and scribes. I'm not saying that I believe the more outrageous stories found in some apocrypha are true, but where there's smoke... A historical Jesus got recognition for his healing (and possibly other) magic, developed a following, and either repeated 'good teachings' he learned from other sources or had sayings ascribed to him later.

Either way the accounts leading up to the canonical Gospels were refined and spread by a dedicated following. The magic continued to be worked by the men and women he taught, but of course this was all quite illegal as the linked article explains in detail. As the religion developed, the leadership slowly began to fear losing their power and realized that the accusations of magic upon Jesus were a severe liability. Some stories were too well known to be erased outright, but nevertheless a shift in the narrative happened at some point not long after Jesus' death.

Think about this another way. Christianity got its start because some guy practiced magic without a license. Can we see a trend here? Those in power do not want to share it. It was OK for certain Jews in Roman times to perform magic per their own rules. It was OK for priests of Roman gods to perform magic. But it was quite another thing to be a foreigner or an upstart and attempt to do the same lest those in power put a quick end to one's business.
 
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Without the magic, he would have been a revolutionary, a great person, but a rebel against the world. I think it's odd that Moses, Jesus and someone else were all sent to Egypt as children, with no record of the missing thirty years.
One could say the same things of Moses or Elijah, in fact it is rumored that Elijah became Metatron.
I do have an issue with his theory, that the OT foreshadowed Christ, Phillipians 2 and John 1 point to him being the creator and coexistent with the Father and Holy Spirit. Psalms also foreshadowed him is we were to debate Torah vs Tanakh.
An issue I have is that the KJV is an incomplete book. It does not contain all books and scrolls written. Part of this is due to ransacked and burnt libraries and a frenzied madmen urging book burnings. However the Apocrypha is missing, Pistis Sophia is missing, and gnostic scrolls were left out.
The establishment thought the books to be too dangerous to be included, but the clergy use them, I wonder why.
We could also go into a web search on jesuit book pdf, which turns up old interesting books. Namely forgotten books. Also modern invenstigations into Jesuit history, including a theory it was a secret synagogue, along with the theory with the Mezerite(?) sect go Jews which derailed history nd the future by constructing fake books or contributing to the lost book dilemma. Perhaps Calvin was right?
The reason I mentioned the web search was due to an old book I came across that I cannot find, on a grimoire belonging to the Jesuits, with sacrifice and all that. As Hollywood as history could get.
Kuke is an expansion on the virgin birth, including showing the relationship between Jesus and John, and Mary and Elizabeth; as well as involvement of the Holy Spirit in all four. Phillipians 2 again comes into play here.
 
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KjEno186

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Without the magic, he would have been a revolutionary, a great person, but a rebel against the world.
Jesus himself never wrote anything, and the Gospels have contradictory information. The source stories were initially passed by word of mouth, a notoriously inaccurate means of relaying information. Biblical scholars are quite aware of the problems this presents, and honest scholarship does not attempt to fit the pieces of available information to a preconceived narrative like, say, most dogmatic religions do. A dogmatic religion is dead. Its teachings are hardened shells of thought, forms of superstition.

By contrast, the author of the article points out how ancient magicians were known to use whatever mix of gods and methods they had available which worked for them.

"The overall portrait of the magician which emerges, from the study of Hellenistic magic in particular, is of an individual scrabbling around on the religious and magical scrapheap of various cultures for the mention of materials, techniques or the names of gods that will add power to his spell."​
Jesus and someone else were all sent to Egypt as children, with no record of the missing thirty years.
I'll just quote from the article:

"By the beginning of the second century AD, Jewish tradition had firmly woven an accusation of Jesus’ magical activity into its anti-Christian polemic. ...​
"Initially the source of this Egyptian influence appears to be the Matthean account of Jesus’ stay in Egypt (Mt. 2:13-23). However, since Egypt was traditionally associated with magic in the Jewish tradition then it is possible that this story arose independently of Matthew’s Gospel and was invented by Rabbis seeking to discredit Jesus by associating him with Egyptian magic. ...​
"Celsus also echoes the allegations made by the Talmud regarding Jesus’ early infancy in Egypt, suggesting that Jesus stayed there until his early adulthood and it was during his stay in Egypt that he acquired his magical powers:​
‘After she [Mary] had been driven out by her husband and while she was​
wandering about in a disgraceful way she secretly gave birth to Jesus…​
because he was poor he [Jesus] hired himself out as a workman in Egypt,​
and there tried his hand at certain magical powers on which the Egyptians​
pride themselves; he returned full of conceit because of these powers, and​
on account of them gave himself the title of God.’[12]"​

As for the rest, this isn't about making sense of Christian doctrines.
 

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RE: The Magical Jesus
SUBTOPICS: Actions of an Iconic Figure
⁜→ et al,

No, I get the point, it's not a sermon, it's a question as to whether or not Jesus performed Magic.
(ANSWER)

YES! In some cases, The Iconic Figure (Jesus) was reportedly able to practice "Dark Magic." (Raising Lazarus from the dead). And Jesus was reportedly able to practice "White Magic" - like changing water into wine. (Transmutation is a form of "Alchemy.")

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R
 
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I found a paper on Jesus being a magician. Will have to read it. I still think there is benefit following the Melchezidek and Aaronic priesthood through the Latter Day Saints church, or going the Essene route.
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Withering the fig tree is another form of black magic.
 

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Interesting, it's my first time coming across such a work, but not my first time hearing of this hypothesis.

I work within the confines of 'magic' if you prefer the term that comes from Jesus Christ and I am more than fortunate to have a Christian mentor who is beyond adept in this 'magic'.

Jesus starts off his mystical workings when the Holy Ghost comes upon him. It's this Holy Ghost that gives him the power to do these 'magical works'. He also offers this power to others.

I've heard of people use this power to exorcise demons out of people, cure people from disease and disability, tell past, present and future, and even control the weather. I would by all means love to reach this level in a conscious manner (and definitely will), but I can't neglect to share one interesting event that happened when a lady called me concerning her youngest son who had an inflammation of one of his testicles. I simply allowed the Holy Ghost to do His work, and the next morning the child was completely cured. I was surprised myself!

If there is any magical power that I have come to find to be most effective, its the one Jesus gives. But I've got to note that theres training involved that takes years to reach perfection.
 

RoccoR

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RE: The Magical Jesus
SUBTOPICS: Actions of an Iconic Figure
⁜→ Bandaboy, et al,
.

Excerpts from Posting #11 by Bandaboy said:
◈ Holy Ghost to do His work,
◈ magical power

(COMMENT)

Whether we talk about "Magic" • "Alchemy" • "Apparitions" • "Paranormal Activity" • or "Psychic Phenomena," the unspoken assumption is (
unless you disregard the possibility of these unique activities) that the potential for any one of these falls into the realm of Metaphysics (that is until such time that one of these activities has been subjected to the Scientific Method of evaluation).

◈ For the "Holy Ghost" to do anything, the Holy Ghost (a religious apparition) must be able to travel across the threshold from one plane of existence to another and alter reality.
◈ Similarly, "Magic" is the exercise of some unknown power that is (as of yet) undefined today in science.

Most of what science knows about reality (what is real and what is not real) orbit two great theories, each of which has passed every test under the Scientific Method. Science generally knows that "Relativity" and "Quantum Mechanics" do not mesh (they are not totally in agreement). Yet each one of the predictions they make has been tested successfully and found to be true.

So, there are still major challenges to the questions on quasi-observations that are beyond science knowledge we have today.
.

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Most Respectfully,
R
 

KjEno186

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Whether it is called "Holy Spirit," "Astral Light," or "Cosmic Root Substance," it is neither "good" nor "evil." It is, however, Universal Cause and Effect, the end result of which can be perceived as "good," "evil," or neutral depending upon who is the subject and who or what is the object, not to mention the current fashion to harshly judge what happened in the past and in different cultural contexts.

The Enlightened Rationalist, so-called, sees no miracles, magic, or any evidence that the Universe is any more or less than E=mc^2. The social engineers have done a wonderful job propagating a society of weak-willed conformists who dare not look outside the box, as it were, to consider the possibility (as it would have to be from their limited perspectives) that mind does not arise from matter, but on the contrary matter is but a manifestation of thought. Thought plus Will plus Emotion, focused, brings forth Miracles (aka Magic).

And as such we have the freedom to practice magic nowadays for the very reason that this social engineering has put the majority of humanity to sleep with regards to their innate powers. Without Awareness, there is no Intent. Without Intent, there can be no Belief. Occultists are seen as harmless relics of a superstitious past by today's Secularists. Only Fundamentalists wrongly ascribe evil to all occultists, but they're not politically potent enough in the West to enforce their beliefs as law, for now.

If Christians would embrace the magic that they claim to believe in, as some did only a century ago, I can only imagine what effect it could have on a global scale. Then again, Jesus said:

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." - Matthew 7:13-14 NIV​
 
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Excellent points, all of them. What school of magic are you from, out of curiosity?
 

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RE: The Magical Jesus
SUBTOPICS: OFFTOPIC
⁜→ Diluculo_DelFuego

I normally do not mention this, as it sounds like boosting. I'm just a good student with some fancy academic credentials.

Excellent points, all of them. What school of magic are you from, out of curiosity?
(ANSWER)

I successfully completed coursework for the IMHS Doctoral Degree Program and attained my PhD in Metaphysical Humanistic Science specializing in Parapsychology, (Metaphysics explores that which forms the underlying nature of reality).


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R
 
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Well, I'm a continuing student of life, including Washtenaw Community College for computer and electronics courses until I received an Associate of Liberal Art and Science, and failed at getting a Bachelor's of Arts in Computer Science from Eastern Michigan University, should've kept doing Anthropology.
Then tried Golden Dawn, Builders of the Adytum and Fraternity of the Hidden Light. A brief intro to demonolatry. A return to the Light of the Cross.
Nothing except the demonolatry was evil or wicked per se. Not to mention the biblical meaning of wickedness is simply willful disobedience.

Back on topic, I agree, the Holy Spirit was the empowerment. The question 8s on the reliability and accuracy of the Bible. What about the theory of Jesus being an Essene for example?
Or Jesus as a child that made a bird out of clay and gave it life?
 
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Since its rumoured that he rose from the dead, I think we need to find away to get his contact details.
 

KjEno186

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There was a lot of talk in the media in recent years about the "Lost Gospel" which purported to tell how Jesus actually married Mary Magdalene, and they had two children together. The document in question is considered "authentic" insofar as it is quite old. The story isn't necessarily true, but who is to say what actually happened? Actual events throughout history were ignored and covered up to support the "approved narrative."

Since its rumoured that he rose from the dead, I think we need to find away to get his contact details.
Good luck getting the actual Jesus. He probably reincarnated. My personal take on it all is that Jesus was a Great Magician born and living at the right time and place in history to have spawned a movement. His followers were .... liars. Very good liars, in fact, but no worse than those Jews who wrote the "Old Testament." I have in mind how the Tarot for The Magician, when reversed, means Charlatan. Once you know the name of something, it no longer has power over you.

I hate the fact that doing any search for information about Jesus brings up Apologetics first and foremost. Maybe DuckDuckGo thinks I'm conservative. :ROFLMAO: Nope, I just know the Bible very well, including a lot of the contradictions and plot holes, as well as the psychology of the believer. With these pieces of the puzzle, I feel free to examine the pictures I can make of the past with the clarity of mind that heretics throughout history enjoyed.
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After reading what I wrote above, I should add that while I make the claim that The Bible isn't 100% Truth, there is still a lot of power in a many of the verses found therein. Believe, and yet know when to read between the lines. A search for the literal Truth is a trap that many sects have fallen into. I certainly don't claim to know it all, but beware anyone who does!
 
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Magician is a wrong word. You need to know what words means before you can have an opinion.
There is one soul one say, and water goes in one direction.
Yet we have a free will. And there are two ways to choose. Left and right.
The left path we call the black path and the right path the white path. Black is seen as unaware and subconscience.
Like somewhere we know. Sometimes we know what we do not want to know and block this knowing out of our mind.
We need to heal from wounds and face reality.
There is one venus. Yet you can choose your path to go in what direction without good and wrong actually exist in a way that some body is allowed to convict you.
People who do anyway are afraid to be convicted and play therefor in that field.
Magic is therefor a weird word.
If we act perfect according the law that truly exist and are find in nature life looks holy and healthy. Turn against it because of trauma or bad experience create the opposit with the purpose like an alarm to be heard after being hurt. Some people might also be more sensitive then others. Because psychological everything is possible and in our horoscope you see what we cling to be.
If we would draw a map of all those directions it would look like a map full of streets.
If the left road to go would be wrong it simply would not exist and so it could not be and anger with wrong is for the people who are confused or deal with issues themselves in that area.

Wrong and right are complecated words to be understood.

They are not as simpel as it looks.

But most of the time wrong means that what is dangerous. So wrong it is not. It is just an expression to show your worry.

Like a little child walking the stairs for the first time.

Further we have many words in science. So people who are students know what we talk about. And people who are not a student might not see some connections. Therefor if you think of Farazeers or Esseners they know what words means but uneducated people might not know. So in that area they know the word formula what we call article a law.

So what we call magic is the law and the law is known in science and science looks like magic and act right means things are holy and healthy and act wrong means we get sick and being sick is a sign something is wrong in how they interpretate the law.

The protestants for example explain the bible completely wrong.
They make it much more possitive then it is.
They want Jesus to look like a miracle. But other sources say completely the opposit. Like there are people more holy then Jesus is one that is very familiar. Like Jesus was angry and felt not treated right. And so his blood would become one with the people what is kind revengive.

So there is possible another explanation the the to white and whiter then snow explanations of the scriptures that are more a document about probably a race or people speaking Hebrew.

And it looks like a cop documented about things that are historical happened in that area that most have been important for a king of kings of those days that probably did not become a king at all but was rejected and they choose Barabas.

So Barabas is much more the king of the Jews for this reason.

So the bible is not really that detailed that give to much information about what really happened.

But to some Jesus did not get his initiation and therefor recieved not the golden crown.

I think the church inherited this demon of self pity of Jesus to choose to feel sorry for Jesus.

But probably his mother wanted her son in the gods kingdom and morachy for the money like The mother of Ishmael Hagar because they were part of the tribe of Abraham and Abraham was not that holy also.

So I think we must not read the bible in the context of extreme holy people who acted perfect according the laws we find also as a fingerprint in nature as proof.

So if Jesus felt pity and wanted to be chosen by the most democrats the protestant inherited this aditude through dna.

So Jesus blood went through them and they are infected with it because there is a bacterial and I think Bactria has something to do with it because of its name in old days of history.

Because history is written many times and the language changed and cults took those history stories with them as heritage forgetten the real old becomming times and it became a believe and a fairy tale with the loss of many facts and details the language even changed what is kind of a code and police language used by officials.

How reliable that is I do not know even you can claim they promise to be honest under a kind of an oath.

Yet as today I think people are many times a bit fooled and not told the whole truth always.

We hear to much double talk when it comes to that that it makes it all believeble.
 

KjEno186

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You need to know what words means before you can have an opinion.

From
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which this thread discusses (and hopefully you read before making that long post):

V. THE WORD 'MAGIC'​
During the preliminary stages of this study it was necessary to depart from New Testament and historical Jesus research in order to engage with other subject areas that have a direct impact upon our line of enquiry; namely psychology, psychiatry, anthropology, classics and Christian art. A considerable period of time was spent familiarising myself with the main theories of ancient magic, which is in itself an extensive field of research. Following a great deal of careful consideration, I found it necessary to use the incendiary terms ‘magic’ and ‘magician’ although I am aware that I am opening an anthropological and theological ‘can of worms’ which has the potential to tie all subsequent lines of enquiry into etymological knots. ...​

...The word ‘magic’ has suffered significant distortions in meaning throughout its evolution from ancient to modern usage...​

...We will then attempt to construct a ‘working model’ of a magician in the ancient world from the various religious, magical and literary sources which provide evidence of the characteristics that were typically associated with magicians operating within antiquity. These unmistakably magical traits will fall broadly into three main categories; the social behaviour of the magician, the physical methods and rituals employed by the magician and the relationship between the magician and his gods. The archetypal figure that emerges from this investigation will inform our general understanding of the term ‘magician’ for the remainder of this study and establish the criterion against which we will examine the Gospel materials to determine whether they present Jesus as engaging in magical activity.​
 
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