The Magical Jesus

[ballade]

Uit

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dat deze thread bespreekt (en hopelijk lees je voordat je die lange post maakt):

V. HET WOORD "MAGIE"​

​

Tijdens de voorbereidende fasen van deze studie was het noodzakelijk om af te wijken van het nieuwtestamentische en historische Jezus-onderzoek om zich bezig te houden met andere vakgebieden die een directe invloed hebben op onze onderzoekslijn; namelijk psychologie, psychiatrie, antropologie, klassieken en christelijke kunst. Er is veel tijd besteed aan het vertrouwd raken met de belangrijkste theorieën van de oude magie, die op zichzelf een uitgebreid onderzoeksgebied is. Na veel zorgvuldige overweging vond ik het nodig om de brandgevaarlijke termen 'magie' en 'magiër' te gebruiken, hoewel ik me ervan bewust ben dat ik een antropologisch en theologisch 'blik wormen' open dat het potentieel heeft om alle volgende onderzoekslijnen naar etymologische knopen te verbinden. ...​

... Het woord 'magie' heeft aanzienlijke betekenisvervormingen ondergaan gedurende zijn evolutie van oud naar modern gebrui... We zullen dan proberen een 'werkmodel' van een magiër in de oude wereld te construeren uit de verschillende religieuze, magische en literaire bronnen die bewijs leveren van de kenmerken die typisch werden geassocieerd met magiërs die in de oudheid actief waren. Deze onmiskenbaar magische eigenschappen zullen grofweg in drie hoofdcategorieën vallen; het sociale gedrag van de magiër, de fysieke methoden en rituelen die de magiër hanteert en de relatie tussen de magiër en zijn goden. De archetypische figuur die uit dit onderzoek naar voren komt, zal ons algemene begrip van de term 'magiër' voor de rest van deze studie informeren en het criterium vaststellen waartegen we het evangeliemateriaal zullen onderzoeken om te bepalen of ze Jezus presenteren als bezig met magische activiteit. L​

Uit

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

dat deze thread bespreekt (en hopelijk lees je voordat je die lange post maakt):

V. HET WOORD "MAGIE"​

​

Tijdens de voorbereidende fasen van deze studie was het noodzakelijk om af te wijken van het nieuwtestamentische en historische Jezus-onderzoek om zich bezig te houden met andere vakgebieden die een directe invloed hebben op onze onderzoekslijn; namelijk psychologie, psychiatrie, antropologie, klassieken en christelijke kunst. Er is veel tijd besteed aan het vertrouwd raken met de belangrijkste theorieën van de oude magie, die op zichzelf een uitgebreid onderzoeksgebied is. Na veel zorgvuldige overweging vond ik het nodig om de brandgevaarlijke termen 'magie' en 'magiër' te gebruiken, hoewel ik me ervan bewust ben dat ik een antropologisch en theologisch 'blik wormen' open dat het potentieel heeft om alle volgende onderzoekslijnen naar etymologische knopen te verbinden. ...​

... Het woord 'magie' heeft aanzienlijke betekenisvervormingen ondergaan gedurende zijn evolutie van oud naar modern gebruik ...​

... We zullen dan proberen een 'werkmodel' van een magiër in de oude wereld te construeren uit de verschillende religieuze, magische en literaire bronnen die bewijs leveren van de kenmerken die typisch werden geassocieerd met magiërs die in de oudheid actief waren. Deze onmiskenbaar magische eigenschappen zullen grofweg in drie hoofdcategorieën vallen; het sociale gedrag van de magiër, de fysieke methoden en rituelen die de magiër hanteert en de relatie tussen de magiër en zijn goden. De archetypische figuur die uit dit onderzoek naar voren komt, zal ons algemene begrip van de term 'magiër' voor de rest van deze studie informeren en het criterium vaststellen waartegen we het evangeliemateriaal zullen onderzoeken om te bepalen of ze Jezus presenteren als bezig met magische activiteit.​

nLaZoë​

Post automatically merged: Dec 22, 2022

As long Jesus came a long with the law He did. Magic means law and formula.
If Jesus never made one mistake or one mistake is not sure. He sure was holy.
Because if you study Hebrew and Kabbalah you know about magic like abracadabra.
It only explains ciffers and how magnifisant they are.
The only abuse that is possible is keep this knowledge for your self.
You can make others depend on you.
For so far that is true.
Yet to me to study Hebrew or tarot is to seek our inner selves.
And meet our sin and guild feelings.
I think we are part of our primal.
I think we walked away from it change the world in modernsation and even forced further become universal what means seperated from our own real being.
To face your true being you need to go back to the mud.
As animals we run we are afraid we stand not still. Move further is move further from our guild feeling and sub conscience.

We can do that with joy.

If you remain friendly get not mad punish non you will see people love it.

You just meet you without fear and without changing you and expect of others no more to change for your status what you think others accept of you to be respected and accepted. That is fear and not our true self. We pretend to be who we are not. Also in relationships but also in places like meetings. We are afraid people leave us for our true self and being and see us as crazy. We have to get over that. But first tell our selves we are normal. Then see that in others and be not so critical anymore or presize. But this takes time and even accept we do this and look at it with love and not hate that it is the mud and like mud and no other substance so we need to make no fuss.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Magical Jesus
SUBTOPICS: Perspective
⁜→ Diluculo_DelFuego, KjEno186, et al,

Then tried Golden Dawn, Builders of the Adytum and Fraternity of the Hidden Light. A brief intro to demonolatry. A return to the Light of the Cross.
Nothing except the demonolatry was evil or wicked per se. Not to mention the biblical meaning of wickedness is simply willful disobedience.

(COMMENT)

Most of these claims some sort of connection to the "Occult" • "Mysticism" • and "Magic." Some of these flash sects rise and fall quickly, while others may fade away - only to reemerge at some later point in history. Then, the meaning placed on evil/wickedness and disobedience to some manmade text or manuscript → advertised as originating from a divine source, changes • being unique in most cases.

Like many of the major religions, the smaller sects often become a framework for the accumulation of wealth (in some cases trillions of dollars annually) in various forms. And some of these religious contributions have gone to support lifestyles.

Evil and Dark operations come in many different forms. Two of the extinct forms are exemplified by the Peoples' Temple (Jim Jones) and the Branch Davidians (David Koresh). Heaven's Gate is another example of masked dark religion that sounded harmless at the time.

Having said all that, there are many (in fact most) who hold a true belief in the sect, conclave, or coven. And these various White Magic units are often spontaneous and turn out to be beneficial.
.

What about the theory of Jesus being an Essene for example?

(COMMENT)

The followers of Jesus, at the time of the crucifixion, appear to have described it as they wanted to see it. And again, this is similar to the hunt-and-peck manner of the Septuagint + Vulgate, as the Nicene Council 300 years later, assemble the embryonic workings of the Bible.

There is no reason to give any credibility to the claim of "Jesus being an Essene." Jesus appeared to be the master of his own organization.
.

Or Jesus as a child made a bird out of clay and gave it life?

(COMMENT)

We do not really know if this was a fable or an actual event. It is similar to the story about Geo Washington chopping down the Cherry Tree.

I saw this and thought it might shed some light on this.

No point was as divisive as the issue of Jesus' divinity. Arius had been preaching that the Son was not co-eternal to the Father because he had been created. He had a beginning and was therefore not begotten. That made the Son an intermediary between the Father and the world. At best, he was a lesser deity. Needless to say, this caused a major theological crisis, hence the calling of the Nicene Council.

Now think about how the Christians see Jesus," versus how the Muslims or Hebrews see him. All three have a different sense of what Jesus was, yet all three are Abrahamic Religions.

Raising anything from the dead is a paradox.

After reading what I wrote above, I should add that while I make the claim that The Bible isn't 100% Truth, there is still a lot of power in a many of the verses found therein. Believe, and yet know when to read between the lines. A search for the literal Truth is a trap that many sects have fallen into. I certainly don't claim to know it all, but beware anyone who does!

(COMMENT)

What definition of "truth" are you applying?

I agree with you, that the "Bible" (whatever the version) is NOT accurate.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

There was a lot of talk in the media in recent years about the "Lost Gospel" which purported to tell how Jesus actually married Mary Magdalene, and they had two children together. The document in question is considered "authentic" insofar as it is quite old. The story isn't necessarily true, but who is to say what actually happened? Actual events throughout history were ignored and covered up to support the "approved narrative."


Good luck getting the actual Jesus. He probably reincarnated. My personal take on it all is that Jesus was a Great Magician born and living at the right time and place in history to have spawned a movement. His followers were .... liars. Very good liars, in fact, but no worse than those Jews who wrote the "Old Testament." I have in mind how the Tarot for The Magician, when reversed, means Charlatan. Once you know the name of something, it no longer has power over you.

I hate the fact that doing any search for information about Jesus brings up Apologetics first and foremost. Maybe DuckDuckGo thinks I'm conservative. Nope, I just know the Bible very well, including a lot of the contradictions and plot holes, as well as the psychology of the believer. With these pieces of the puzzle, I feel free to examine the pictures I can make of the past with the clarity of mind that heretics throughout history enjoyed.

Post automatically merged: Dec 22, 2022

After reading what I wrote above, I should add that while I make the claim that The Bible isn't 100% Truth, there is still a lot of power in a many of the verses found therein. Believe, and yet know when to read between the lines. A search for the literal Truth is a trap that many sects have fallen into. I certainly don't claim to know it all, but beware anyone who does!

Great point, which is the foundation upon which Hoodoo is from.

Post automatically merged: Dec 22, 2022

You know, this life of mine has been an extreme roller coaster at times, baptizing me with water and fire through every turn.
Certain things are undeiably evil in itself, such as murder. I would see virtue in raising a murder victim back to life. Enter Ezekiel.
Transforming wine into water I could see saving lives of alcoholics to be, a trickster motif perhaps, a miracle however. But chemicals do wonders.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Magical Jesus
SUBTOPICS: EPILOG
⁜→ et al,

Having said All that, I would follow up to the implied assumption that there is "magic" in the universe.

According to Dean Radin (PhD, psychology), Chief Scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS), bestselling author, and featured scientist in the New York Times Magazine, magic is real, and science is on its way to understanding it. In his new book, Real Magic (Harmony Books), Radin paves the road to new scientific horizons, arguing that magic is a natural aspect of reality that everyone is capable of tapping into with diligent practice.
SOURCE:

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I offer this up for those who believe that humans may very well have a type of supernatural

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→ manageable through Consciousness. This is one of the great mysteries that is actually not all that far beyond the Noetic Sciences!

It is not "tin foil hat" science.

Just My Thought,

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

All I know is that Hoodoo works, and I have done Holy Spirit related miracles of very small scale before. I would not be able to do it on my own. My understanding of Hoodoo is that the Bible contains magic, and most of that is read between the lines. Both OT and NT.

Also the fact of the stories of central Bible characters were all in Egypt at a young age, and it seems except for Moses that they were educated there. They knew languages of other cultures, which possibly was the work of the Holy Spirit, or that they were trained to speak several languages besides Hebrew and Coptic. Therefore the sciences, teachings of stars and solar system ideas, energy work, mental alchemy and so on.

The fact remains, magician or not, with enough belief or faith, a person can in the real world in real time have a miraculous experience or experience a miracle. Example: My girlfriend should've been history. Car was totaled due to texting and driving to her new male interest, but came out with a few scratches. the airbag didn't exactly work. Luckily the semi driver was also okay. She fell asleep, I was softly and mentally praying psalms over her, she woke up and asked me if I had done so and said yes.

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022

Perhaps he employed angels, Shem angels, or enochian angels.

 

[Bandaboy]

Yes, magick is a bit of a tricky term based on the definition given. Jesus Christ's power came from the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit awakens and energises the subtle body in a similar way that Nature energises our body via food & water.

I don't doubt that 'magick' was part of what he did, but a majority of the 'miracles' he did were his subtle body being empowered so much so that it had more 'presence/matter/reality' than his physical body. Meaning, just as our physical body is our reality, Moreso than our body we see in dreams, for him, it was his subtle body that 'had more weight' than his material body, and so if he walks on water with subtle body over material body, the subtle body would work according to the laws it abides by... Our subtle bodies don't sink or aren't subject to the laws of material physics, as much as has been discovered and yet to be discovered.

It's a similar way to how our material bodies have greater weight than our subtle bodies, and in dreams, we are subjected to the laws of material physics that actually don't exist in the dream world.

But as for magick, how he used his spit and soil to heal a blind man, that sounds like something aligned to magical laws, but I'm not sure.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

A pentecostal high priestess I know taught me a few tricks I still employ from time to time. Peter in Acts toward the couple that lied about their real estate profit were smoked by the Holy Spirit.