The "Price" of Magick

[whimsicalwarlock]

To buy off one's sins is only for human conscious but not for the soul.
Works like this, there is the human consciousness, the analytical mind and the unconscious mind. Yes we can fool the analytical mind, the conscious mind with charity events, with earthly activities, donations but all that comes from a place of fear based belief - remorse, heavy consciousness, clear consciousness terms are used for this but for the soul is nothing like that. Heaven and Hell reside in the very same location so to speak and we are the ones building our Have or our Hell.

Your idea "if somebody was genuinely wanting to "negate" their bad karma, would it be fruitless for them to do kind things?"
Karma means action and the negative karma or bad karma is an opportunity for the one who experience it to change, to transform the negative meaning throughout the action reflecting or manifesting in a positive way.

Giving money to charity clears a bit of consciousness but if what you put out doesn't come right away back, in the cycle of life it will, not this life? ok, in the next life experience... from here the idea of "transgenerational trauma"
Many individuals attached to karma a bad rep but it is nothing bad or something to fear.
Do good with open heart, good things will come to you.
Do bad things with a heavy conscious, more negative energy is attracted.

Looking a bit into conspiracy theories, there are (allegedly) individuals who want to live forever, some are afraid of the "hell" they have created for themselves and prolong their"human" experience through any means necessary, genetics and magic being a popular method....

Some cultures have a belief in which an individual consumes another individual's sins (called a sin eater), the christianity uses the absolution of all sins but all that are not for the soul but for the ego, for the flesh, bones and stupidity because, according to the very same christian belief the lord Jesus Christ sacrificed on that cross and for our absolution, he paid for our sins.
The soul's perspective is a bit more fun and less dramatic.
For the soul there is no sin, there is experience.
Dark night of the Soul is infact the Dark night of the Ego.
The soul does not suffer, does not cry, doesn't get wounded, cracked, splintered, shattered.... The soul is immortal, it is energy emanated from the Source of All There Is with the purpose of experiencing.
Yes for the human is a good idea to have and experience fear based beliefs because the negative experiences adds diversity, adds a whole new range of experiences which cannot be experienced if there was only "love and light".
Of course negative karma must have a bad rep because it serve the purpose of painting life experience in so many colors.
I know there is an universe where fear based beliefs don't exist or don't manifest like they do in this universe and if you have a little bit of curiosity and try to imagine such a life it is plain boring, evolution is linear, no reset button.
Karma is a tool, an opportunity, a reflection of the energy we emanate. It is like a mirror which when you throw a punch, you get a punch... when you smile, the mirror will have to smile back to you... (Bashar's analogy with the mirror is cool)
Again, dear old universe doesn't say "No"... never.

Soul agreements are also important. No karmic stuff in there.
"Under Divine Grace for the greatest good of All" that is also bypassing "karmic retribution" when some healers send energy to another individual.

I've typed a lot of nothing, sorry about that. It could of been less...

Nothing to be sorry for. I like a lot of extra details explaining things from multiple angles. So you're saying karma is really just a sort of perspective thats centered on the ego. That makes sense to me. Thanks for the response.

 

[Shade]

Hello Wizards,
I hope this finds you well.

Throughout magickal speculation and theory, is this idea that all magick comes at a cost.
Those fearful of magick will often tell you the cost is far greater than what you gain, or that you "lose your soul" in the process of using magick, especially when working with Demons. People even tell tales of Angels creating chaotic change that can often create severe consequences as part of the "payment"
Some say that you can do the work and that if you don't "pay" then nothing will happen, while others believe that you can still get results but that the "payment" will be "garnished" from your magickal results or in other mundane areas of your life.

Many modern grimoires include the reassurance that there is no "price" or "karmic backlash" while others say you need to "pay' the spirits for their work.
Is there any actual validity to any of these claims or are they simply just a superstition held by those who don't understand the magick? Have any of you ever done work and experienced this?

Personally I don't believe I've ever experienced this but I've only had my feet in the shallow end of the magickal pool.

Any insight is appreciated.

Oh there is a price to pay, but it depends on your practice, more often than not the price is more so finding your soul than it being “sold” (I don’t believe you can sell your soul) As for spirits… I haven’t worked with many but the select few that did come through was more so personal workings, no so much asking them to do something but rather to get to feel their energy, like Abaddon is very “dense” very… rip your heart out, show it to you to make you understand type, Eris was “lighter” than expected, very exuberant but calm energy. It’s fitting in a way, exuberant, youthful but calm and wise, not so much chaotic but more so two halves of the same coin being flipped and it lands on its edge. But Abaddon left me with night terrors and brought up a lot of past stuff that needed to be dealt with and Eris‘ energy had my insomnia in overdrive. I can imagine if you ask a spirit to do something the cost may be more so geared towards the person making the request rather than “for this, this spirit needs this” sure the grimoires offer invaluable guides to what certain spirits like but I think the cost is more dependent on the practitioner, I was young and really naive back then so what I saw and felt is likely what I needed to see and feel and that's what drew me to them in the first place. Things have a weird way of calling to you, so if you work with spirits, you may work with different spirits unknowingly for certain reasons. or you know why you chose that spirit why do you know they will come in clutch ya know? I think the cost is more so a deeply personal thing that seems negative but helps you develop. just my 2 cents, as mentioned I don’t work with spirits anymore, just not my jam, although if deeply needed… jelly would work and provide what’s needed.

 

[Parallax]

Hello Wizards,
I hope this finds you well.

Throughout magickal speculation and theory, is this idea that all magick comes at a cost.
Those fearful of magick will often tell you the cost is far greater than what you gain, or that you "lose your soul" in the process of using magick, especially when working with Demons. People even tell tales of Angels creating chaotic change that can often create severe consequences as part of the "payment"
Some say that you can do the work and that if you don't "pay" then nothing will happen, while others believe that you can still get results but that the "payment" will be "garnished" from your magickal results or in other mundane areas of your life.

Many modern grimoires include the reassurance that there is no "price" or "karmic backlash" while others say you need to "pay' the spirits for their work.
Is there any actual validity to any of these claims or are they simply just a superstition held by those who don't understand the magick? Have any of you ever done work and experienced this?

Personally I don't believe I've ever experienced this but I've only had my feet in the shallow end of the magickal pool.

Any insight is appreciated.

To become something, you must stop being what you were before.
All acts of change are acts of loss and gain.

 

[Xenophon]

To become something, you must stop being what you were before.
All acts of change are acts of loss and gain.

"If you can't stand the sight of your own blood, don't step in the ring." Some one really cool and authoritative must've said that sometime, right? Leftenant Chard to his counterpart Bromhead, eh wot? Nothing much supernatural or occult. It's just if you try to change events, you yourself might stand in change's path. As esoteric as whacking your thumb with a hammer sometimes.

 

[Wintruz]

Hello Wizards,
I hope this finds you well.

Throughout magickal speculation and theory, is this idea that all magick comes at a cost.
Those fearful of magick will often tell you the cost is far greater than what you gain, or that you "lose your soul" in the process of using magick, especially when working with Demons. People even tell tales of Angels creating chaotic change that can often create severe consequences as part of the "payment"
Some say that you can do the work and that if you don't "pay" then nothing will happen, while others believe that you can still get results but that the "payment" will be "garnished" from your magickal results or in other mundane areas of your life.

Many modern grimoires include the reassurance that there is no "price" or "karmic backlash" while others say you need to "pay' the spirits for their work.
Is there any actual validity to any of these claims or are they simply just a superstition held by those who don't understand the magick? Have any of you ever done work and experienced this?

Personally I don't believe I've ever experienced this but I've only had my feet in the shallow end of the magickal pool.

Any insight is appreciated.

I cannot comment on the Angelic/Demonic dichotomy, however....

In the West, the idea that magic comes at a "cost" has been Christianised and overlain with demonology. Yet, this idea's roots are very pagan. Wotan, in his eternal pursuit of wisdom and power (read "magic") gives an eye for magical foresight and, literally, dies to discover the runes. There are parallels with Ishtar's descent into the underworld. While there are particular lessons to draw from these stories, the broad principle is that, if you really want this, the price will be extraordinarily high.

While some people are, "by nature", a bit quicker than others, there is no such a thing as easily-come-by insight. All of it is hard-won. This doesn't mean that simply punishing oneself will produce wisdom (a very Catholic idea). Instead, it starts with seeing all of one's life as a journey of gaining wisdom and being willing to follow that pursuit into very dark, difficult places, sometimes consciously choosing those experiences over comfort and security. This is more dangerous and more likely to produce real power and insight into reality than invoking corrupted Hebrew from some old tome.

 

[Taudefindi]

In the West, the idea that magic comes at a "cost" has been Christianised and overlain with demonology. Yet, this idea's roots are very pagan. Wotan, in his eternal pursuit of wisdom and power (read "magic") gives an eye for magical foresight and, literally, dies to discover the runes. There are parallels with Ishtar's descent into the underworld. While there are particular lessons to draw from these stories, the broad principle is that, if you really want this, the price will be extraordinarily high.

Though Christianity's view of "cost" usually is something that you really can't pay(the whole "your soul is forever doomed"), while in the pagan examples the cost, while high, is still very bearable specially if the person really wants something.

 

[Wintruz]

Though Christianity's view of "cost" usually is something that you really can't pay(the whole "your soul is forever doomed"), while in the pagan examples the cost, while high, is still very bearable specially if the person really wants something.

Yes and I suspect this is rooted in a similar perception to your own, that you can't really barter your soul in paganism (at least in the paganisms I'm familiar with) and someone's willingness to sell it, even if they could, indicates that their soul is of less value than one that would never think of "selling" itself.

 

[Fausto]

Hello Wizards,
I hope this finds you well.

Throughout magickal speculation and theory, is this idea that all magick comes at a cost.
Those fearful of magick will often tell you the cost is far greater than what you gain, or that you "lose your soul" in the process of using magick, especially when working with Demons. People even tell tales of Angels creating chaotic change that can often create severe consequences as part of the "payment"
Some say that you can do the work and that if you don't "pay" then nothing will happen, while others believe that you can still get results but that the "payment" will be "garnished" from your magickal results or in other mundane areas of your life.

Many modern grimoires include the reassurance that there is no "price" or "karmic backlash" while others say you need to "pay' the spirits for their work.
Is there any actual validity to any of these claims or are they simply just a superstition held by those who don't understand the magick? Have any of you ever done work and experienced this?

To buy off one's sins is only for human conscious but not for the soul.
Works like this, there is the human consciousness, the analytical mind and the unconscious mind. Yes we can fool the analytical mind, the conscious mind with charity events, with earthly activities, donations but all that comes from a place of fear based belief - remorse, heavy consciousness, clear consciousness terms are used for this but for the soul is nothing like that. Heaven and Hell reside in the very same location so to speak and we are the ones building our Have or our Hell.

Your idea "if somebody was genuinely wanting to "negate" their bad karma, would it be fruitless for them to do kind things?"
Karma means action and the negative karma or bad karma is an opportunity for the one who experience it to change, to transform the negative meaning throughout the action reflecting or manifesting in a positive way.

Giving money to charity clears a bit of consciousness but if what you put out doesn't come right away back, in the cycle of life it will, not this life? ok, in the next life experience... from here the idea of "transgenerational trauma"
Many individuals attached to karma a bad rep but it is nothing bad or something to fear.
Do good with open heart, good things will come to you.
Do bad things with a heavy conscious, more negative energy is attracted.

Looking a bit into conspiracy theories, there are (allegedly) individuals who want to live forever, some are afraid of the "hell" they have created for themselves and prolong their"human" experience through any means necessary, genetics and magic being a popular method....

Some cultures have a belief in which an individual consumes another individual's sins (called a sin eater), the christianity uses the absolution of all sins but all that are not for the soul but for the ego, for the flesh, bones and stupidity because, according to the very same christian belief the lord Jesus Christ sacrificed on that cross and for our absolution, he paid for our sins.
The soul's perspective is a bit more fun and less dramatic.
For the soul there is no sin, there is experience.
Dark night of the Soul is infact the Dark night of the Ego.
The soul does not suffer, does not cry, doesn't get wounded, cracked, splintered, shattered.... The soul is immortal, it is energy emanated from the Source of All There Is with the purpose of experiencing.
Yes for the human is a good idea to have and experience fear based beliefs because the negative experiences adds diversity, adds a whole new range of experiences which cannot be experienced if there was only "love and light".
Of course negative karma must have a bad rep because it serve the purpose of painting life experience in so many colors.
I know there is an universe where fear based beliefs don't exist or don't manifest like they do in this universe and if you have a little bit of curiosity and try to imagine such a life it is plain boring, evolution is linear, no reset button.
Karma is a tool, an opportunity, a reflection of the energy we emanate. It is like a mirror which when you throw a punch, you get a punch... when you smile, the mirror will have to smile back to you... (Bashar's analogy with the mirror is cool)
Again, dear old universe doesn't say "No"... never.

Soul agreements are also important. No karmic stuff in there.
"Under Divine Grace for the greatest good of All" that is also bypassing "karmic retribution" when some healers send energy to another individual.

I've typed a lot of nothing, sorry about that. It could of been less...

Magic is a weapon. But for being honest, If you want peace, prepare for war.

Personally I don't believe I've ever experienced this but I've only had my feet in the shallow end of the magickal pool.

Any insight is appreciated.

Post automatically merged: Dec 17, 2024

Magic is a weapon. But for being honest, If you want peace, prepare for war.

 

[Taudefindi]

Magic is a weapon.

I think magic is both a tool and a path, the way it's used depends on who's using it and for what.

 

[Xenophon]

Yes and I suspect this is rooted in a similar perception to your own, that you can't really barter your soul in paganism (at least in the paganisms I'm familiar with) and someone's willingness to sell it, even if they could, indicates that their soul is of less value than one that would never think of "selling" itself.

Not a bad point. I recall trying to pawn a French knock-off of a Kraut P-38. An aluminum-frame POS. The pawnbbroker took one look and said, "Why in hell would I pay money for that?" So too the Devil to the average desperate ne'er do well trying to flog off his soul. It plain don't make sense, unless the Christian notion is accepted that every soul is sacred. By any evidence viewed through other lenses than those rose-colored ones, we are adrift in a spiritual flea market. In the Faust tale, at least, the good Doktor had fashioned something arguably worth selling.

 

[Wintruz]

Not a bad point. I recall trying to pawn a French knock-off of a Kraut P-38. An aluminum-frame POS. The pawnbbroker took one look and said, "Why in hell would I pay money for that?" So too the Devil to the average desperate ne'er do well trying to flog off his soul. It plain don't make sense, unless the Christian notion is accepted that every soul is sacred. By any evidence viewed through other lenses than those rose-colored ones, we are adrift in a spiritual flea market. In the Faust tale, at least, the good Doktor had fashioned something arguably worth selling.

Yes to all of this. Your average goatkskin-parchment-purchaser seems to forget just how attractive a catch was Faust. While I'm sure, if they work hard, little Johnny's rock band might go places, they should make sure they're rehearsed to within an inch of their life before calling on the label bosses' Boss.

At the risk of being ideologically purist/holding people to their beliefs, even the Christian sanctity of the soul business is heavily weighted with the limitless capacity to put that soul at irredeemable risk. You'd think Yahweh would have made his products a little less breakable. To paraphrase his son "But I say to you that anyone who even looks at a Faustian pact with lustful intent, already belongs to the devil in his heart".

 

[Xenophon]

Yes to all of this. Your average goatkskin-parchment-purchaser seems to forget just how attractive a catch was Faust. While I'm sure, if they work hard, little Johnny's rock band might go places, they should make sure they're rehearsed to within an inch of their life before calling on the label bosses' Boss.

At the risk of being ideologically purist/holding people to their beliefs, even the Christian sanctity of the soul business is heavily weighted with the limitless capacity to put that soul at irredeemable risk. You'd think Yahweh would have made his products a little less breakable. To paraphrase his son "But I say to you that anyone who even looks at a Faustian pact with lustful intent, already belongs to the devil in his heart".

Michael Aquino, in Mindstar I think, had the point that folks get in trouble by equating their everyday sense of self with the soul. I mean, most of us think we're hot-s***. The Seinfeld's Mom syndrome, "How could anyone not like me?" But in pimping oneself out to Mephisto. what we're trying to sell might be less than prime. I might deck my soul out in fishnets and a thong and all the spiritual bling it can carry, but it still might be Lizzo-esque underneath.

Enough of that, the point is made. Talking about other costs, one hears of shaman (shamans? shamen?) up in Mongolia---there still be a few. Apparently a working by one of them often floors him for days. Physically, at least some of their doings sap the shaman greatly. I'm not sure I'd call this the "price." But magick does call for strength to be shepherded and energy to be replaced when expended. TINSTAAFL and all that.

 

[Froodette]

I have really enjoyed reading these responses and just wanted to thank everyone for their contributions. I feel like anything I would add has already been written thrice over, so i'll refrain. I would add the Socrates quote "the unexamined life is not worth living" but instead make it more relevant to the discussion by countering with "What is the cost of fitting in?"...

When I do the math that way, Magick wins every time.