The Scientific Method

[Robert Ramsay]

Actually governments tend to display a pretty strong survival instinct. This can be the basis of intelligence, though often low-grade.

Yes, there is a difference between intelligence and cunning

Post automatically merged: Jan 26, 2024

Worse than that is the modern practice of explaining away without testing the explanation.

How many non-physical or psychic events are explained away with no investigation of the explanation?

How does knowing advance?

Scire: to know. True science is based on knowing.

True science is based on questioning what you think you know. As Einstein is supposed to have said: "When a man says 'I know', he stops thinking."

Post automatically merged: Jan 26, 2024

Science is quick to dismiss anything of the spiritual realm as there is no "evidence", which is why I disregard it when it comes to such topics. I like to go off of personal experience since I am in touch with the spiritual more so than some scientist.

The reason people say there is no evidence is because they have no theory. We have over 100 years of data for the paranormal, but data without a theory is not evidence.

It is true that magic is one of the things which needs to be experienced before you can start to get your head around it.

Speaking as someone who has spent thirty years matching up science and magic

 

[Xenophon]

Yes, there is a difference between intelligence and cunning

Post automatically merged: Jan 26, 2024

True science is based on questioning what you think you know. As Einstein is supposed to have said: "When a man says 'I know', he stops thinking."

Post automatically merged: Jan 26, 2024

The reason people say there is no evidence is because they have no theory. We have over 100 years of data for the paranormal, but data without a theory is not evidence.

It is true that magic is one of the things which needs to be experienced before you can start to get your head around it.

Speaking as someone who has spent thirty years matching up science and magic

Well said. Some bright boy a few decades back quoth, "Perception is theory laden." What doesn't fit gets dismissed.

 

[Roma]

What doesn't fit gets dismissed.

The problem is an intelligence sitting at the top of the human personal mind. That intelligence is sometimes called The Dweller on the Threshold.

This is a mental intelligence whose greatest asset is its self-esteem. It hates to be wrong and prefers to discard physical and emotional health and relationships rather than admit that it has been wrong for decades

The only way out for the human is to move its consciousness above the lower mental into the "soul" (neshama) or into the heart (buddhic plane)

The Dweller does have a valuable function. It forces the human to control its personality - to protect the Dweller's self-esteem.

When the human has permanent access to higher mental and heart energies, the Dweller transforms from defense to creativity. That occurs at first stage enlightenment.

For technical reasons, the Dweller is accessible through the eyes of the human. So we look at a human's eyes to see their truthfulness.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

The HGA iow?

 

[Roma]

The HGA is the same as the Christian soul and guardian angel, and Neshama spirit. They all are solar angels/devas. It is important to distinguish the soul body from the solar intelligence/angel.

Each human usually has access to a solar angel/deva for the earlier stages of spiritual unfoldment. After first stage enlightenment the human develops its own conscious relationship to the Monad/Yechidah and the solar angel progressively withdraws.

If the human is unsuitable/non-responsive the solar angel goes about its work with its other humans in the hope that the first human may become suitable in a later time/life. Such humans may be called soulless - in the sense that there is no active connection with the relevant solar angel.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

How does this measure up amongst the different religions, the fields of the paranormal, and magic and witchcraft (and all those in between)?

How did we all stray so far from being on-topic?

 

[Roma]

How did we all stray so far from being on-topic?

It is hard to be scientific without the human understanding its processes of consciousness and awareness and the subconscious and superconscious players that alter logic and perception

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Psychology, okay, that's closer.

In regard to: The Scientific Method (and)
How does this measure up amongst the different religions, the fields of the paranormal, and magic and witchcraft (and all those in between)?

It is hard to be scientific without the human understanding its processes of consciousness and awareness and the subconscious and superconscious players that alter logic and perception

Let's take my religion as an example, a hybrid of Celtic Christianity, with pagan leanings.
The logic of it: Love God, and your neighbor as yourself.
How can we scientifically define loving ourself, our neighbor, and our God?

Values/embodyment of the Holy Spirit on Christ:
Love
Kindness
Compassion
Living the truth of God.
Resisting the establishment that has corrupted the values of God and his commandments, while acknowledging man is and always has been a tribal people.

 

[Roma]

How can we scientifically define loving ourself, our neighbor, and our God?

Defining means setting finishes. In this case that requires cosmic awareness

It is however possible to consider the energy flows on the various planes - or between the sephiroth of the parties.

For loving oneself it is necessary to be active on the buddhic plane - using the heart chakra.

I have given the basic technique many times on this forum.

In humans, all other loving develops from that

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Still straying from being on-topic. Psychology (Scientific Method) of religion, magic and witchcraft to be blunt.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Scientific Method
SUBTOPIC: Mental Processes
※→ Roma, et al,

The HGA is the same as the Christian soul and guardian angel, and Neshama spirit. They all are solar angels/devas. It is important to distinguish the soul body from the solar intelligence/angel.

(COMMENT)

Without all the technical and Medical jargon, none of the aforementioned (supra) concepts (Christian "soul, "guardian angel," and "Neshama spirit") can be tested using the Scientific Method. The best we can do is detect "Neural Activity" - most of which are surface scans by which real animal functions can be associated with locations in the brain. We can detect when the brain ceases to function (Brain Death) but we cannot associate that to a soul (for example). We have not yet been able to detect the means of travel for some portion or activity of human neural intelligence - as reported by the many out-of-body experiences [(OOBE) and Near Death Experiences (NDE)] testimonials.

Parapsychological Investigations and contemporary science cannot distinguish between an undefined apparition, an escaping soul, or a hoving intelligence - a runaway imagination 'vs' an “extrasensory” experience. We do not know if the many NDEs encounters generate images that are detectable on the retina - or if the mental image is communicating free-space directly with the thalamus generating thalamocortical radiations to the other activities in the brain. Nor can we tell if there is another, entirely different, supernatural (paranormal) means of communication between reality and the brain processes.

Remember → IF the "retina" detects it THEN there must be some form of energy with a definite spectrum of frequencies.

Well, I'm stepping off the box.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Roma]

none of the aforementioned (supra) concepts (Christian "soul, "guardian angel," and "Neshama spirit") can be tested using the Scientific Method.

That is true of materialistic science.

What if the principles of science (observation, hypothesis, experiment, peer review) could be applied to non-material aspects of Existence?

Perhaps these mystical terms refer to intelligent systems that do not use physical forms but are entangled more subtly.

For example, the morning after my mother died in another country, I could feel her in my house. The first thing she said was: It is just as you said - all about energy

Later I saw she was in a group learning to apply the principles of acupuncture at a planetary scale

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I think @RoccoR @Lemongrass00 and @Robert Ramsay have made good points.

 

[Xenophon]

The problem is an intelligence sitting at the top of the human personal mind. That intelligence is sometimes called The Dweller on the Threshold.

This is a mental intelligence whose greatest asset is its self-esteem. It hates to be wrong and prefers to discard physical and emotional health and relationships rather than admit that it has been wrong for decades

The only way out for the human is to move its consciousness above the lower mental into the "soul" (neshama) or into the heart (buddhic plane)

The Dweller does have a valuable function. It forces the human to control its personality - to protect the Dweller's self-esteem.

When the human has permanent access to higher mental and heart energies, the Dweller transforms from defense to creativity. That occurs at first stage enlightenment.

For technical reasons, the Dweller is accessible through the eyes of the human. So we look at a human's eyes to see their truthfulness.

All reasonable enough, though the Dweller on the Threshold is a bit overblown. The Chinese 'mongst whom I dwell have a very apt term, "自大的.” One is "big-selved." I imagine full of oneself comes pretty close to a translation.

The problem I was pointing to though is more cerebral. Thinking takes shortcuts. We traditionally have not had time to turn over every surd we stub a toe on. There can be a certain survival value in haste, too. When that becomes habitual, thinking runs down a rut.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

True. 'Undue haste makes waste' as survival schools "U" teaches us (no, Ive never been in the military). But, what being homeless and in poverty (yes, Americans can be poor too, not all of us are dipshit Senators) teaches you are exactly that - survival. Mess up and youre history. Thats why Im being sheltered by family and friends, Id be history on the street.

So, Scientific Theory on magic has taught me that very rarely have things come to pass for me through magic for some reason, especially lately.

Post automatically merged: Jan 27, 2024

So, Scientific Theory on magic has taught me that very rarely have things come to pass for me through magic for some reason, especially lately.


Problem: I need housing, which costs money. Conclusion: Money made without effort on my part may put me in a desired place of living.
There are a lot of variables here, especially when it comes to not only reaching that desired conclusion, but all the if-thens in between, and the while Ive made those ifs successfully in a short amount of time.

Post automatically merged: Jan 27, 2024

So what can be done magickally:
Appeals to higher beings on my part that want to see me succeed.
Suppressing those who dont want to see me succeed via a return to sender or IOB.
Talismans for winning court law cases in my extreme favor.
Talismans to obtain very reasonable yet safe and clean housing.
Taking care of business on the high profile, magickally on the downlow.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Scientific Method
SUBTOPIC: Mental Processes
※→ Roma, et al,

Interesting choice of words.

• consciousness
• subconscious
• superconscious players
• logic
• perception

It is hard to be scientific without the human understanding its processes of consciousness and awareness and the subconscious and superconscious players that alter logic and perception

(COMMENT)

What is consciousness and awareness? → and the follow-on question → What is a subconscious and the subconscious players?

(INTELLECTUAL EXPERIMENT)

Suppose you are a caveman. And, another caveman comes to you and reports: coming across a huge pathway; and on that pathway was a moving something. The caveman asks you: → What is that thing?

Now begins the Caveman Investigation Activity (CIA)...

You begin by taking a detailed report: Date and Time of Observation, Shape, Size, Color, Speed and Direction, Location, Sounds or Noise... You start to canvas the neighboring Caveman dwellings. And while not every Caveman has made such an observation, a surprising number of Cavemen have made similar observations. So, the CIA begins to believe that there might just be some substance to the reports of this unexplained phenomenon.

Each Field Interrogation describes:

◈ Each neighboring Caveman who reports to you of some observation → ​

​

✦ Makes a similar report but the occurrences were made at differing Dates and Times.​

✦ Makes a similar report but the occurrences were made by something in a different Shape.​

✦ Makes a similar report but the occurrences were made of a differing Size.​

✦ Makes a similar report but the occurrences were made of a differing Color.​

✦ Makes a similar report but the occurrences were made of a differing Speed and Direction.​

✦ Makes a similar report but the occurrences were made of a differing Location.​

✦ Makes a similar report but the occurrences were made of a different set of Sounds and Noises associated with each.​

◈ Some of the neighboring Caveman who made reports to you → observed → what they believed to be a humanoid image. And no two of these Humanoid Image Reports were even remotely similar.​

​

In reality, we know that no one (or more) of these descriptive features or characteristics will lead to an understanding (by the CIA) of just what was seen (a motor vehicle). Some observed an 18-wheeler; while others saw a UPS Van or a bus. Some saw a Jeep and others saw a Chevy, VW, Ford, Merc, etc. Some saw a vehicle with a chrome bumper, and others saw a vehicle with headlights on. Some might have seen a tow truck with flashing lights, while others may have seen a Police Car or Fire Truck.

(QUESTIONS)

We actually know (in reality) that everything the Canmen saw is quite explainable and not supernatural. Yet, how does the caveman apply the Scientific Method to the observations? How does the caveman rule in or rule out a spiritual component to the observations? How do we separate the reality of the Caveman Observations • from • the fantasy of Stephen King or John Carpenter?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Roma]

What is consciousness and awareness? → and the follow-on question → What is a subconscious and the subconscious players?

What a long way to go before we can trust a witness.

Assume that the mind is not the brain. Any number of deaths during surgery, after resuscitation demonstrate that the mind records when the heart does not beat and the brain has no electric currents. Often the recording is from the ceiling indicating no brain connection.

Consciousness may be properly used to refer to the joint operation of mind and brain.

Awareness however does not require consciousness. The eye can blink long before brain realizes the incoming object.

The body reaction (rather than response) is managed in a lower intelligence sometimes called physical instinct. That intelligence is below the functional spectrum of the brain consciousness - hence subconscious. Just as well - who wants to have to keep telling the heart to keep beating?

There is emotional instinct as well. Women practice that a lot.

So there are three overt layers to the personality: physical, emotional and mental. But the human has higher layers that may be called spiritual. Heart relationship is an example.

If the human is not aware on the higher layers those intelligences may be called superconscious.

There are many subconscious players. Some are naturally inherent in the human and others are add-ons. For example Mozart was writing complex serious music at age 5.


In the Hindu system the major internal intelligences are named.

everything the Canmen saw is quite explainable

It seems to me that explanations are hypotheses awaiting experimental proof. The risk of course is that one's beliefs may fail.