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The Universal Principle At The Core Of All Occult Workings

BushWhisperer

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Three things can be observed at the heart of all magical acts, be that sorcery, witchcraft, magic or as result of prayer or any other types ritual.
Mind (1) generates thought that (2) moves energy and (3) results in action.
799263709_1695237042603539_8122818465278771192_n.jpg

There are many ways that this can be actualised by employing various different mechanical processes. When carefully considered, it becomes rather clear that behind all such occult-based magical acts, that may indeed often appear very different at face value, the fundamental principles at work reveal that this statements universally true. We all naturally realise how fundamental the understanding of energy is to a would be mystic or magician, as it is the expression of potential and the very manipulation of this very potential, is what defines a magical act from a mundane one.

Here's Why Energy Matters
There are only actually three fundamental states, as the alchemists of antiquity well knew and, these three act in seven ways. For each acts independently, each with the other and all together in synchronised fashion. Thus a, b and c = can act upon anything in the following seven ways =as a, b, c, a+b, ,a+c, b+c or a+b+c. Thus are distilled into the seven fundamental principles at the heart of Hermetics, Vedic Chakric systems, the seven principles of Kemetic spirituality derived from the attributes of the ancient Egyptian goddess Ma'at : truth, justice, harmony, balance, order, reciprocity & propriety, the seven principles of Middot as relates to Kabbalah, the seven principles of the Dao- Qu, Pi, Ziran, Yang-Yin, Wu-wei, De & the Dao or Tao. and the list goes on.

Though fundamentally this seven tiered system of understanding is related to the three planes of existence, three worlds of the shaman, namely: the Astral, Etheric and Causal realms respectively that represent the three fundamental states from whence the seven principles arise to begin with, it serves as an excellent way to understand the esoteric workings hidden in the occult shadow of the worlds formation.
The Causal "realm" or field of pure transcendence experienced abstractly as inspired thought.
The Astral "realm" or field of pure energy experienced as the qualities we consider abstractly as emotions and feelings.
The Etheric "realm" of field of form that we experience abstractly as ideas or thoughts.
These latter two are essentially a division of the Causal field that interact as do the twin serpents of Caduceus, Yang Yin or the spiral of Kundalini's ascent and descent between the chakras that produces the experience of changing qualities bound in adapting forms. Its all essentially the same idea presented in different ways and we call this time. with the three states representing the present, past and future, where the present polarises as the past becomes the future.

How these seven divine principles of Correspondence works through Polarity to manifest Cause and Effect as an expression of Vibration bound by Rythm that defines the Generative coupling that embodies in perfect preportion, the fundamental state of Mentalism, is yet another conversation. One that shall indeed come at a later stage. Suffice to say that these three fields of manifestation we have been discussing, that are behind this world and even begets this world, are essentially those of Thought, Energy and Form.
Energy thus stands between form aand thought, for as thought vibrates to the point that it gets expressed as energy, the very movement of that energty then then defines form as result of the effects that cause effects along the causal chain that structures space as time, producing the outcome of matter we experience as result.

The Hermetic Principle Of Polarity
When considering the cosmogony of how time and space evolve from pure thought, one can recognise that pure thought in all its abstraction started to produce vibration. This Vibration, the 3rd principle of Hermes, thus required a sense of movement in order to exist in its own right, for thats what vibration is. Vibration is essentially, mechanical ocilating waves around an axis. Cosmogenically speaking, that axis is the principle of Mentalism, or puere abstract thought that is not linear, ie Hermes 1st principle. The pattern of the oscilation consists of a field of Correspondence between the two waves- Hermes 2nd principle. Fundamentally the notion of vibration suggests movement and thus there is a definable range of movement implied. This "range of movement" expressed through the act of vibration is an actualised field of Polarity- Hermes 4th principle. Polarity is the potential expressed in any dynamic exchange of movement and is the source tapped to produce said movement in the first place, whereby the potential energy becomes kinetic energy and produces acoustic resonance as result.
image-19.png

Thus the polarity principle governs all energetic systems and is at the heart of how energy behaves and similarly acts as the source from whence it arises while defining its behavior. Duality is the currency of polarity and it embodies the substantial allocation of its bounds, as it defines the very process it embodies. All that new-age nonsense about non-duality is thus, from an occult perspective, essentially vomit, as it denies the nature of existence as it is in favour of adopting a theoretical ideal that is insubstantial and unobtainable while being alive. Sure there is a point where such isnt relevant, but thats not within the domain of an energetic system, such as the systems in which we find ourselves, be that physical or transcendent. Polarity reflects the 2nd principle of Correspondence and defines the Principle of Cause and effect, acting as an energetic bridge between the mental and physical states of being we experience.
The generative principle of gender is how polarity actualises itself in matter and thus carries the same somewhatly less abstact symbolic definition, whereby sometimes the one muight seem an expression of the other.
images

We can see how Polarity is defined as the union between the poles as a system that defines the process of interaction between these two nones.
Its mystic essence of two poles is thus a systemic reflection of the actualised third principle that defines the nature of relationship between these.
Hence the mystic character of Polarity is understood as emboding vibration of number 2 fundamentally, however its actual character reflects the vibration of the number number 3.

Below can be seen how the vedic and daoist systems treat these principles, so as to illustrate the uniform representation accross different cultural landscapes.
Yang (masculine) + Yin (feminine) = Dao (path from & to source) represent the forces that manifest the world and traverse the meridians of the body.
Pingala (masculine) + Ida (feminine) = Sushumna (path from & to source) represent the three above principles as they animate the body and the world via the nadi's.
As above so below (Hermes 4th Principle) maintains that the Dao contains within it the forces of Yang & Yin, as does the Sushumna contain within it the Ida & Pingala.
The Dao & Shushumna represent the diverse unity as considered "above" in Hermetics, as the Yang-Yin & Pingala-Ida pairs represent the unified expression of multiplicity "below"
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Nembra

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One can find the cores and universal principles by stripping abstractions, not stacking them. This is a pile of complex machinery, certainly interesting, but very particular and elaborately put together. Not many occult paths will agree easily fit into such a structure.

That being said, I see a distant reflection of my own studies in there. There is, in fact, an eighth outer domain. - the empty realm in which none of the three fundamental states are present.
 

HoldAll

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The problem with such syncretic universalist systems is that they lack dynamism, for my taste. They invariably emphasise an equilibrium between polarities but without any possibility of a (temporary) loss of balance, there can be no development, no progress. It's like watching a board game where nothing ever moves. Before anything can be created, there has to be a preponderance of one force, and not necessarily at the expense of another, as the Kybalion's 'divine' polarity principle seems to suggest. How do the various elements of your system interact, if interaction there is? How are they interrelated? Can there be any disruptions or disharmonies, or any change at all? Are all human beings helplessly subject to this supernatural order, or are there some loopholes a clever magician could exploit?

What's more, I don't like numbers games in occultism. For every "The Seven X of Y", there are countless other equally hallowed doctrines with less or more 'laws' or whatever - Buddhism alone is thick with them (the Tibetans only recognise five chakras, btw). I'm currently studying a 2,000 year-old system featuring two related groups of rapidly arising consciousnesses with
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
which sometimes overlap, intersect, influence, or call forth one another according to hideously complex rules, no numerology whatsoever involved. It's flexible enough to accommodate all of human experience since it's in a state of constant flux where consciousnesses emerge and disappear in lightning-fast succession. With such theosophical systems, however, I always get the feeling that everything is standing still, probably because their originators thought that all eternity should be static and unchanging. Not my paradigm at all.
 

BushWhisperer

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It looks like it is from 'some other site ' ?
No I wrote the article here and havent shared it elsewhere.
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Not
I'm kinda tired of people coming on here and saying "I HAVE DISCOVERED THE ULTIMATE TRUTH" and then hitting us with pages of rambling.
Thanks for your imput btw, though I dont think the coment is at all relevant to this particular article. It serves to empower the short attention-span attitude or people that are often too lazy to actually research and think for themslelves and want short concise exoteric answers to deeply esoteric questions imo.

This is pure Hemetics and I understand that the younger generation suffers with much ADHD and otherforms of neurodiversity that impacts attention span and ability to process information, so this likely isnt for everyone in fairness. Its targetting the more experienced practitioners really and is certainly not as you say ๐Ÿคฃ"rambling" as its rather specirfic and sticks on topic. Rambling doesnt. Also as for "Ihave discoovered the ultimate truth" nonsense, isnt a relevant comment, as there is no "moral" or any other sort of "ultimate truths" provided here. Its simple 101 applied Hermetics and relates to the concepts of panpsychism in rather esoteric ways. People these days are often seeking to be spoonfed one liners that their ideas of "ultimate truth".

This article strives to show how universal the concept of Polarity is accross Daoist, Vedic and Hermetic systems. Which holds true for Kemetic and arabic and other systems too. People that have travelled extensively would understand this.
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Ermmmmmah ... yeah ; the core of ultimate truth ...

515663
.......

images
Is it not intereting how that core looks like a toroidal field that is the perfect expression in three dimensions as well as hyper dimensions, of polarity that represents vibration of oscilating fields.
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It's so elaborate, it's not even wrong.
Yea I put some thought into it๐Ÿ™Hope you enjoyed it. How did you find it btw?overall
 
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weirdbird

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Three things can be observed at the heart of all magical acts, be that sorcery, witchcraft, magic or as result of prayer or any other types ritual.
Mind (1) generates thought that (2) moves energy and (3) results in action.
It's all well and good but why are we suddenly using some abstract energy unexplained generate by the mind as the basis of an entire philosophical system? Claiming that "moving energy" and "generating thought" is at the heart of any magical act is a little too arrogant. What does that even mean? None of these things hold any significance, I can easily replace them with "moving hands", "expectation" and "fnord" and it will have no bearing at all on the rest of this post.

the seven principles of the Dao- Qu, Pi, Ziran, Yang-Yin, Wu-wei, De & the Dao or Tao
There is no such thing as "the seven principles of the Dao". I also believe you made a typo and the intention was to wrtie "Qi" and "Pu", not "Qu" and "Pi". That's not even mentioning that Qi and Yin-Yang are not even specifically Daoist concepts. If anything, you can find a seven if you take the passage "Dao creates One, the One creates Two, the Two create Three, the Three create all things", except of course you're not supposed to count the Dao itself and you'll end up with six.

the attributes of the ancient Egyptian goddess Ma'at
The only thing that is relevant about the seven principles of Ma'at here is that there is seven of them.

the 3rd principle of Hermes
These seven principles have nothing at all to do with Hermes, you are quoting the Kybalion and by that point the fact that Atkinson was a hack and his books are full of nonsense should be common knowledge (has "Arcane Formulas" is not bad in comparions to the rest of his works though, I have to admit)
 

Robert Ramsay

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Thanks for your input btw, though I donโ€™t think the comment is at all relevant to this particular article. It serves to empower the short attention-span attitude or people that are often too lazy to actually research and think for themselves and want short concise exoteric answers to deeply esoteric questions IMO.
No-one's going to understand stuff like that unless they have sufficient background. To you, who has that background, it looks like a cogent argument.
This is pure Hermetics and I understand that the younger generation suffers with much ADHD and other forms of neurodiversity that impacts attention span and ability to process information, so this likely isnโ€™t for everyone in fairness. Its targetting the more experienced practitioners really
So which is it? Is it for experienced people or is it for people too lazy to research?
as for "I have discovered the ultimate truth" nonsense, isnโ€™t a relevant comment, as there is no "moral" or any other sort of "ultimate truths" provided here.
In that case your thread title is misleading. "The Universal Principle At The Core Of All Occult Workings" certainly sounds like some kind of laying down of the Law to me.
Its simple 101 applied Hermetics and relates to the concepts of panpsychism in rather esoteric ways.

This article strives to show how universal the concept of Polarity is across Daoist, Vedic and Hermetic systems. Which holds true for Kemetic and Arabic and other systems too.
Maybe you should have led with that; this description sounds much more reasonable.
Yea I put some thought into it๐Ÿ™Hope you enjoyed it. How did you find it BTW? overall
"Not even wrong" is perhaps not the compliment you think it is. As for how I found it, please see my comments above.
 

BushWhisperer

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The problem with such syncretic universalist systems is that they lack dynamism, for my taste. They invariably emphasise an equilibrium between polarities but without any possibility of a (temporary) loss of balance, there can be no development, no progress. It's like watching a board game where nothing ever moves. Before anything can be created, there has to be a preponderance of one force, and not necessarily at the expense of another, as the Kybalion's 'divine' polarity principle seems to suggest. How do the various elements of your system interact, if interaction there is? How are they interrelated? Can there be any disruptions or disharmonies, or any change at all? Are all human beings helplessly subject to this supernatural order, or are there some loopholes a clever magician could exploit?

What's more, I don't like numbers games in occultism. For every "The Seven X of Y", there are countless other equally hallowed doctrines with less or more 'laws' or whatever - Buddhism alone is thick with them (the Tibetans only recognise five chakras, btw). I'm currently studying a 2,000 year-old system featuring two related groups of rapidly arising consciousnesses with
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
which sometimes overlap, intersect, influence, or call forth one another according to hideously complex rules, no numerology whatsoever involved. It's flexible enough to accommodate all of human experience since it's in a state of constant flux where consciousnesses emerge and disappear in lightning-fast succession. With such theosophical systems, however, I always get the feeling that everything is standing still, probably because their originators thought that all eternity should be static and unchanging. Not my paradigm at all.
Thanks for that honest and well considered reply btw!
The dynamism absolutely inherent and esotericly hinted at in the above article I wrote.
The statement:"The pattern of the oscilation consists of a field of Correspondence between the two waves" The statement here made implicitely implies dynamism and is supported specifically by :"Fundamentally the notion of vibration suggests movement and thus there is a definable range of movement implied" and these are explicitly and directly are referred to in:"This "range of movement" and the statement: "expressed through the act of vibration is an actualised field". These are clearly and specifcally explained as being a dynamic system too when its crowned with this statement:" is the potential expressed in any dynamic exchange of movement and is the source tapped to produce said movement in the first place, whereby the potential energy becomes kinetic energy" Right? Web are speaking about the potential expressed in any "dynamic" range right? This is actualised by potential becoiming kynatic. hardly a static system being described here, whouldn't you agree?

Numerology was a massive part of Chaldean thought 3000 years ago plus and in vedic systems like 4000 years plus and integral part of the Sumerian system 5-6000 years back plus. To do away with that might not achieve anything and be a significant loss as trade off, that seems a bit pointless. And there are many thousands of chakras and some systems only used three or 4 or 5, seven, or some old vedic systems used 4 just in the head and series of others. That particular orientation would depend largely on the goals oif the student really.
Though as for simplicity, the shamanic path is very simple- though gharder work. There seems to be a direct relationship between the simplicity and workload of any system.
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It's all well and good but why are we suddenly using some abstract energy unexplained generate by the mind as the basis of an entire philosophical system? Claiming that "moving energy" and "generating thought" is at the heart of any magical act is a little too arrogant. What does that even mean? None of these things hold any significance, I can easily replace them with "moving hands", "expectation" and "fnord" and it will have no bearing at all on the rest of this post.


There is no such thing as "the seven principles of the Dao". I also believe you made a typo and the intention was to wrtie "Qi" and "Pu", not "Qu" and "Pi". That's not even mentioning that Qi and Yin-Yang are not even specifically Daoist concepts. If anything, you can find a seven if you take the passage "Dao creates One, the One creates Two, the Two create Three, the Three create all things", except of course you're not supposed to count the Dao itself and you'll end up with six.


The only thing that is relevant about the seven principles of Ma'at here is that there is seven of them.


These seven principles have nothing at all to do with Hermes, you are quoting the Kybalion and by that point the fact that Atkinson was a hack and his books are full of nonsense should be common knowledge (has "Arcane Formulas" is not bad in comparions to the rest of his works though, I have to admit)
As for the "moving hands nonsense" you mentioned:ROFLMAO: you are forgetting that it is the brain that moves thehands, or am I wrong? And is it not the thought in the brain that signals the hands to move?:D
And does the psyche not internally "visualise this possibility before it actualises?
So is it aLL not originating in the field of thought? That is how intention actually works right?:ROFLMAO: The very intent to move the hands are a mental intention. It would be foolish to imagine any other nonsense. Too many new aged books can confuse ones brain and cause such dizzy ideas to take shape, though it does mean its actually sensible. Wouldnt youy agree?
Post automatically merged:

Thanks for that honest and well considered reply btw!
The dynamism absolutely inherent and esotericly hinted at in the above article I wrote.
The statement:"The pattern of the oscilation consists of a field of Correspondence between the two waves" The statement here made implicitely implies dynamism and is supported specifically by :"Fundamentally the notion of vibration suggests movement and thus there is a definable range of movement implied" and these are explicitly and directly are referred to in:"This "range of movement" and the statement: "expressed through the act of vibration is an actualised field". These are clearly and specifcally explained as being a dynamic system too when its crowned with this statement:" is the potential expressed in any dynamic exchange of movement and is the source tapped to produce said movement in the first place, whereby the potential energy becomes kinetic energy" Right? Web are speaking about the potential expressed in any "dynamic" range right? This is actualised by potential becoiming kynatic. hardly a static system being described here, whouldn't you agree?

Numerology was a massive part of Chaldean thought 3000 years ago plus and in vedic systems like 4000 years plus and integral part of the Sumerian system 5-6000 years back plus. To do away with that might not achieve anything and be a significant loss as trade off, that seems a bit pointless. And there are many thousands of chakras and some systems only used three or 4 or 5, seven, or some old vedic systems used 4 just in the head and series of others. That particular orientation would depend largely on the goals oif the student really.
Though as for simplicity, the shamanic path is very simple- though gharder work. There seems to be a direct relationship between the simplicity and workload of any system.
Post automatically merged:


As for the "moving hands nonsense" you mentioned:ROFLMAO: you are forgetting that it is the brain that moves thehands, or am I wrong? And is it not the thought in the brain that signals the hands to move?:D
And does the psyche not internally "visualise this possibility before it actualises?
So is it aLL not originating in the field of thought? That is how intention actually works right?:ROFLMAO: The very intent to move the hands are a mental intention. It would be foolish to imagine any other nonsense. Too many new aged books can confuse ones brain and cause such dizzy ideas to take shape, though it does mean its actually sensible. Wouldnt youy agree?
Thanks for that honest and well considered reply btw!
The dynamism absolutely inherent and esotericly hinted at in the above article I wrote.
The statement:"The pattern of the oscilation consists of a field of Correspondence between the two waves" The statement here made implicitely implies dynamism and is supported specifically by :"Fundamentally the notion of vibration suggests movement and thus there is a definable range of movement implied" and these are explicitly and directly are referred to in:"This "range of movement" and the statement: "expressed through the act of vibration is an actualised field". These are clearly and specifcally explained as being a dynamic system too when its crowned with this statement:" is the potential expressed in any dynamic exchange of movement and is the source tapped to produce said movement in the first place, whereby the potential energy becomes kinetic energy" Right? Web are speaking about the potential expressed in any "dynamic" range right? This is actualised by potential becoiming kynatic. hardly a static system being described here, whouldn't you agree?

Numerology was a massive part of Chaldean thought 3000 years ago plus and in vedic systems like 4000 years plus and integral part of the Sumerian system 5-6000 years back plus. To do away with that might not achieve anything and be a significant loss as trade off, that seems a bit pointless. And there are many thousands of chakras and some systems only used three or 4 or 5, seven, or some old vedic systems used 4 just in the head and series of others. That particular orientation would depend largely on the goals oif the student really.
Though as for simplicity, the shamanic path is very simple- though gharder work. There seems to be a direct relationship between the simplicity and workload of any system.
Post automatically merged:


As for the "moving hands nonsense" you mentioned:ROFLMAO: you are forgetting that it is the brain that moves thehands, or am I wrong? And is it not the thought in the brain that signals the hands to move?:D
And does the psyche not internally "visualise this possibility before it actualises?
So is it aLL not originating in the field of thought? That is how intention actually works right?:ROFLMAO: The very intent to move the hands are a mental intention. It would be foolish to imagine any other nonsense. Too many new aged books can confuse ones brain and cause such dizzy ideas to take shape, though it does mean its actually sensible. Wouldnt youy agree?
The fact that the Dao is seperate from the other six are identicle to the 1st principle of Hermetics being seperate and not counted. Why do you think everyone uses the hexagram? :D Right? the Hexagram is used rather than a septagram. Did you ever consider why that is? This kind of insight isnt founds in new age books catering to people with short attention spans so I understand the confusion, though the idea that yang and Yin arent daoist concepts is a bit skew. All systems grow from other systems organically and evolve dynamically. The Dao and Yang and Yin are so explicably linked its almost insane to suggest they ares, no matter what some new age writer has said on the matter.
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It's all well and good but why are we suddenly using some abstract energy unexplained generate by the mind as the basis of an entire philosophical system? Claiming that "moving energy" and "generating thought" is at the heart of any magical act is a little too arrogant. What does that even mean? None of these things hold any significance, I can easily replace them with "moving hands", "expectation" and "fnord" and it will have no bearing at all on the rest of this post.


There is no such thing as "the seven principles of the Dao". I also believe you made a typo and the intention was to wrtie "Qi" and "Pu", not "Qu" and "Pi". That's not even mentioning that Qi and Yin-Yang are not even specifically Daoist concepts. If anything, you can find a seven if you take the passage "Dao creates One, the One creates Two, the Two create Three, the Three create all things", except of course you're not supposed to count the Dao itself and you'll end up with six.


The only thing that is relevant about the seven principles of Ma'at here is that there is seven of them.


These seven principles have nothing at all to do with Hermes, you are quoting the Kybalion and by that point the fact that Atkinson was a hack and his books are full of nonsense should be common knowledge (has "Arcane Formulas" is not bad in comparions to the rest of his works though, I have to admit)
"These seven principles have nothing at all to do with Hermes, you are quoting the Kybalion"
Have you heard of the "Corpus Hermeticum"? Its all in there. Or the older 1600's translation by John Evererd under the name : The Divine Pymander.? Though those two are from Latin to English- the first one mentioned being translated by the late GRS Mead- the bloke that translated the well-known Pistos Sophia writiungs too btw in the start of the 1900's.

There was a Greek to English also translated 3 - 4 decades ago by Brian P. Copenhaver . Naturally it was originally translated from Greek to Latin then to English so Brians one is worth using to compare the other two versions. The seven principles are all in there, though its not done in the new age format you mentioned ๐Ÿคฃ which is hardly an authoritive source, though I understand its all most people know about when it comes to Hermetics. So no, you are wrong with you silly statement about me quoting the Kyballion is simply ridiculous๐Ÿคฃ Btw The auther of that book, William Walker Atkinson as well as that silly one you recommedned, "Arcane Formulas", are both blatantly new age books adapted from new age thought inspired by many writers from the Theosophical society and other such new age groups.๐Ÿ˜…

It really does pay to be informed. The Kyballion seems like bits of it was even garbled from genuine sources like Corpus Hermeticum though the auther never gave credit to it. He likely cauaght bits of it as was the case, with many of the new age writers of that era. Also much was by design hidden in plain sight so the uninitiated, wouldnt be able to understand. This is why you are confused about my source and the hermetic principles. Though actual seven are a a fundamental part of the ancient kemetic system.
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One can find the cores and universal principles by stripping abstractions, not stacking them. This is a pile of complex machinery, certainly interesting, but very particular and elaborately put together. Not many occult paths will agree easily fit into such a structure.

That being said, I see a distant reflection of my own studies in there. There is, in fact, an eighth outer domain. - the empty realm in which none of the three fundamental states are present.
That isnt actually a "realm" of itself btw. Its part of the structure that holds the cohesion to proverbially act as a binder. Unless you refer to the "8th sphere", which is something very different. That term was used by Blavatski and Steiner originally, though it relates to passages from The Ogya or book Of Giants and other related texts. A very different thing thats conceptualised as relating to "Da'ath" in kabaistic lore as it relates to the so called "fall".

I am hoping that you understand the differences between these two co0ncepts though neither is relevant in of itself in this specific conversation tbh.
 
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weirdbird

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Have you heard of the "Corpus Hermeticum"? Its all in there.
This might come as a shock but those seven principles you've mentioned are not even remotely in the Corpus Hermeticum, you are quoting them word for word from the Kybalion.

The fact that the Dao is seperate from the other six are identicle to the 1st principle of Hermetics being seperate and not counted. Why do you think everyone uses the hexagram?
Do you... have any slightest idea on what the hexagrams are and how they are formed? Have you ever heard about the eight trigrams and whatnot? I can't even
 

MorganBlack

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I love Hermetic philosophy, but now I just feel exhausted - and like I really need to develop a case of alcoholism.

To be fair I have made cosmological maps in Illustrator, so I know this tendency all too well.
 

frater_pan

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Sure, but one could just counter that the mind is actually an extremely complex automata that presents the illusion of consciousness and that all magick is actually accomplished through X, and in this case one could propose spirits or just cosmic energy in various forms for X.

We don't lack for possible pathways to accomplish magick.
 

BushWhisperer

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This might come as a shock but those seven principles you've mentioned are not even remotely in the Corpus Hermeticum, you are quoting them word for word from the Kybalion.


Do you... have any slightest idea on what the hexagrams are and how they are formed? Have you ever heard about the eight trigrams and whatnot? I can't even
They are 100% there. They just arent spoonfed in the TikTok ๐Ÿ˜…style that people are use to. For those with eyes, its clear to see. perhaps try rereading it? Though I imagine you are getting your info from google, yes?
correct me if I am wrong? They arent spoonfed in order like the dubed down Kyballion texts you may be use to, though they are all there.
Btw: Have you read any of those texts? if so which translation?
I am curious๐Ÿ™
 

Robert Ramsay

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Sure, but one could just counter that the mind is actually an extremely complex automata that presents the illusion of consciousness and that all magick is actually accomplished through X, and in this case one could propose spirits or just cosmic energy in various forms for X.

We don't lack for possible pathways to accomplish magick.
Agreed. This is exactly why I bang on about the map and the territory. IMO, All magical systems (including this one) are the map and not the territory. How else could wildly differing systems achieve equal levels of success?
 

BushWhisperer

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They are 100% there. They just arent spoonfed in the TikTok ๐Ÿ˜…style that people are use to. For those with eyes, its clear to see. perhaps try rereading it? Though I imagine you are getting your info from google, yes?
correct me if I am wrong? They arent spoonfed in order like the dubed down Kyballion texts you may be use to, though they are all there.
Btw: Have you read any of those texts? if so which translation?
I am curious๐Ÿ™
As for the hexagram ๐Ÿ˜… situation you are mixed-up about: I was clearly speaking of the western "hexagram" used in most magicks and sorcery in the west specifically. I wasnt talking about the chinese "hexagrams"you refer to. Those hexagrams you speak of and name distinctly from the Chinese hexagrams differentiating them from "trigrams", are one and the same thing๐Ÿคฃ. Right? Chinese name for heagram is trigramsthough counted in sets of eight. Ifyou understood Chaldean numerology the reason for 8 sets might be more universally appreciated. It's sadly very easy for one to get brainwashed in this modern society where the ability to think independently is essentially educated out of chidrens brains. The key for us, is to regain this capacity for original thought.๐Ÿ™
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Sure, but one could just counter that the mind is actually an extremely complex automata that presents the illusion of consciousness and that all magick is actually accomplished through X, and in this case one could propose spirits or just cosmic energy in various forms for X.

We don't lack for possible pathways to accomplish magick.
Ah, though now you are speaking about the mind.
The mind is not oure thought, is it though?
They are quite distinct. The "mind" isa an organ used to navigate specific regions of thought in specific ways, no?
Like a lawnmower is not the grass right? But cuts it.. no?
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Agreed. This is exactly why I bang on about the map and the territory. IMO, All magical systems (including this one) are the map and not the territory. How else could wildly differing systems achieve equal levels of success?
Mind is not thought, right?
At the heart of all systems there are essentially the same truths, just packaged differently.
Like a motyorcycle, a car or a bus, right? They all run on the same principles but are vastly different experientially.
 

HoldAll

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At the heart of all systems there are essentially the same truths, just packaged differently.
Like a motyorcycle, a car or a bus, right? They all run on the same principles but are vastly different experientially.

No. All systems differ widely, they have different gods (or no god at all), different ideas about the afterlife (if any), the existence of the soul, different flaws and blind spots. Some lead nowhere except into slavish mass devotionalism, others foster individual awareness; not all paths are equal, some make only sense to members of a given civilisation, e.g. a warrior culture. Some spiritualities have never even been codified except by the random anthropologist who happened to be in the area. There is (and can be) no common denominator, and besides universalism is as dead as Mme. Blavatsky and Mircea Eliade - what has zen in common with sufism, for example?

Just another thing: analogies can never prove anything, they can only illustrate.
 

Lion

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For me the critical thing about any 'system' is its attitude to other 'systems'. Does it deny them, kill their protagonists - literally or metaphorically - ingest them and make them disappear in a monopoly-aspiring empire of meaning (that in the end claims superiority and translateability of 'other ideas' into an ontologically prioritised narrative). I think there are scary legacies from colonialism here, that need to be considered....it was this consideration that stopped me from going down the rabbit hole of correspondances and non-pluralism.... what works in what ways for who though?
 

BushWhisperer

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No. All systems differ widely, they have different gods (or no god at all), different ideas about the afterlife (if any), the existence of the soul, different flaws and blind spots. Some lead nowhere except into slavish mass devotionalism, others foster individual awareness; not all paths are equal, some make only sense to members of a given civilisation, e.g. a warrior culture. Some spiritualities have never even been codified except by the random anthropologist who happened to be in the area. There is (and can be) no common denominator, and besides universalism is as dead as Mme. Blavatsky and Mircea Eliade - what has zen in common with sufism, for example?

Just another thing: analogies can never prove anything, they can only illustrate.
Yea I believed that three and a half decades ago too... But give it time Grasshopper. All things shall be revealed. You might want to try some travelling too, so its not all so theoretical. I went on an incredible journey that spanned two decades, lived on numerous continents, learnt a few languages and was not merely exposed to, though was imbedded with different practices and lived with various masters and trained in various systems. Though before you can do that,its wise to apply ones self and train relentlessly for like a decade to prepare ones self for such a cultural shock. Its only when one goes to actually live in the deep jungles and be at one with the animals, that all these things get revealed to one by the very spirit of nature, though thats after at very least after 30-40k hours of actual formal meditation. But thats a sacrifce I understand many dont have the heart to make and the model of my life might not apply to you, as you never necessarily drowned in 1978, crossed over and saw the universe naked in all her spendour, to then have to live with what at the time seemed a curse of supernatural abilities as result. So you wouldnt understand prophesy, seeing and dealing with spirits, telepathy and trance as if it were just a natural part of your growing up, or what its like to be called the devils child as all the adults in the neighbourhood know and fear you and wont allow their kids to play with you because of ESP.

So your path would be very different I imagine and has been. Where those of you went to University, and got a career, I decided at age 15 the occult would be my whole life and then relentlessly pursiued that full time after giving away all possessions and following the call.. Thats not for everyone, I get it. People today lack the courage and tenacity. To walk through a buffalo stampede or face leopards, be friends with wild troupes of elephants and face charging bulls, wild bore or commune with black bear of massive boa constrictors, or swim a couple kilometers out to sea to call and become spiritually connected with the spirit of orca isnt for the faint hearted. many are just "armchair" magicians 5that read books and speculate :D which is fine.

Though the real initiation is facing the end and thats what defines an initiate from one of those armchair magicians that fantasise about true knowledge or power.. Thers a big difference betwen one that hopes to find the truth in words or one that experienced the truth when crtossing over and merely seeks texts that can account for actual experiences related to that or how it changes one. Most people cant appreciate this, in the way I cant appreciate the higher level chemistry discussed by a group of Doctors of Chemistyry that worked as chemsits their whole lives after getting PHD's and such..
 
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