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Dammit, man. That tactic will not work here. Not for the folks on this thread. You are new, but HoldAll is not just some wet-behind-the-ears, wide-eyed kid you can intellectually browbeat.
Dammit, man. That tactic will not work here. Not for the folks on this thread. You are new, but HoldAll is not just some wet-behind-the-ears, wide-eyed kid you can intellectually browbeat.
You must possibly be mistaken. There is no "intellectual brow-beating" happening here. I am merely admiting that I indeed did feel the way you felt in the early 1990's. Then I was discussing the difference betwen actual experience of living in the far east and training with actual masters for the better part of a couple of decades and in other places with other masters too during the couple decades of travel- which was essentially a practical education, rather than "intellectual" one people get from books. Pointinting out that it is the primary education where occult knowledge is concerned. I was also indicating that that there is a big difference between the two forms of learning. Please dont get over-sensitive and become hyper-emotional in what is a low-key and casual conversation. I was speaking in general terms and theres no need for you to take it personally because, we are after all, all adults here, right?
Big love
Dammit, man. That tactic will not work here. Not for the folks on this thread. You are new, but HoldAll is not just some wet-behind-the-ears, wide-eyed kid you can intellectually browbeat.
I should add I am sorry if you felt offended at all, I actually mean none. I am so use to all the millenials and GenZ and even GenAlpha kids spewing so much new age vomit thesedays, so I might come accross as direct and tactless when speaking with peoplem that actually have more experience. There isnt a one way up the proverbial mountain and whats food for one is indeedf poison for another, so I actually do appreciate you poking at my thoughts as our mnutual poking makes us both stronger for it. No hard feelings,
only feelings.
Big Love
Not at all. Most people here have no issue with All is Mind. Chaos Magic, Hermeticism, and most heirs to Neoplatonism are entirely on board with the premise.
What you are saying is also pretty old hat for us older magicians. I've been a grim trad magician since the 1990s, Anglo-Latino, and speak Anglo occultism fluently.
But I thought I should just jump in and say HoldAll is a local boss-level player on this game server, and has seen all the tactics, before you put your Malkut in your Da'at too much.
You must possibly be mistaken. There is no "intellectual brow-beating" happening here. I am merely admiting that I indeed did feel the way you felt in the early 1990's. Then I was discussing the difference betwen actual experience of living in the far east and training with actual masters for the better part of a couple of decades and in other places with other masters too during the couple decades of travel- which was essentially a practical education, rather than "intellectual" one people get from books. Pointinting out that it is the primary education where occult knowledge is concerned. I was also indicating that that there is a big difference between the two forms of learning. Please dont get over-sensitive and become hyper-emotional in what is a low-key and casual conversation. I was speaking in general terms and theres no need for you to take it personally because, we are after all, all adults here, right?
Big love
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I should add I am sorry if you felt offended at all, I actually mean none. I am so use to all the millenials and GenZ and even GenAlpha kids spewing so much new age vomit thesedays, so I might come accross as direct and tactless when speaking with peoplem that actually have more experience. There isnt a one way up the proverbial mountain and whats food for one is indeedf poison for another, so I actually do appreciate you poking at my thoughts as our mnutual poking makes us both stronger for it. No hard feelings,
only feelings.
Big Love
Just wanted to mention that I'm pretty new and started reading about the chakras and taoism in the past year, and zoomed through the kybalion, and was utterly lost especially when it came to hermeticism. But your unexpected post literally dropped a bomb in my head and put a lot of irrelevant aspects into perspective for me, especially your chart of how each hermetic law equates to each level of chakras. It was a huge help to me, tiktok be damned.
Not at all. Most people here have no issue with All is Mind. Chaos Magic, Hermeticism, and most heirs to Neoplatonism are entirely on board with the premise.
What you are saying is also pretty old hat for us older magicians. I've been a grim trad magician since the 1990s, Anglo-Latino, and speak Anglo occultism fluently.
But I thought I should just jump in and say HoldAll is a local boss-level player on this game server, and has seen all the tactics, before you put your Malkut in your Da'at too much.
Haha, 'boss-level player', says the walking 23-volume occult encyclopedia Nah, I'm just this library rule enforcer who takes up to three hours to come up with a halfway intelligent two-paragraph reply.
My only comment tactics are "It's vastly more complicated than you think!" and "The universe is much too chaotic to conform to any rules dreamt up by humans".
Okay then . I will give you some feedback . ( As I assume that is why you came here and posted it ) . Methodically starting at your intro ;
'' Three things can be observed at the heart of all magical acts, be that sorcery, witchcraft, magic or as result of prayer or any other types ritual.
Mind (1) generates thought that (2) moves energy and (3) results in action.''
Obviously this relates to a lot more than 'occult workings ' - its a basic seed of reality and a 'core' of philosophy .
I will not list the history of it all but it starts (in my experience ) in one of the oldest 'occult systems' in the world with the Australian Aboriginals ... whose teachings I have access to . But that is a little difficult to back up here and its an oral tradition.
So let's start with the first ( that I know of ) written traditions ; from the Avestas ( the Scripture of Zoroastrianism ) and simply exists in the 'base line ' of ' Good thoughts , ( lead to ) good words , (lead to ) good actions .
I will flash through the rest of human history ( where this appears in various forms ) up to the Golden Dawn teachings ( ' On the General Guidance and Purification of the Soul ' ) and Crowley ( Liber Librae - The Book of the Balance ) ;
16. To obtain Magical Power, learn to control thought; admit only those ideas that are in harmony with the end desired, and not every stray and contradictory Idea that presents itself.
17. Fixed thought is a means to an end. Therefore pay attention to the power of silent thought and meditation. The material act is but the outward expression of thy thought, and therefore hath it been said that “the thought of foolishness is sin.” Thought is the commencement of action, and if a chance thought can produce much effect, what cannot fixed thought do?
- or as some might call it ; 'common sense ' . In any case it seems a core valid premise to stand upon and begin with ... even if 95% of people today do not practice it and have untrained , unfocused , polluted , drugged out or medicated minds .
Looking at your next assertion ;
'' There are only actually three fundamental states, as the alchemists of antiquity well knew and, these three act in seven ways.''
Why three fundamental states ? There are three fundamental 'ideals ' .... that give birth to four fundamental states ; or 'elements' .
Herein lies the first 'Mystery of Mysteries ' - I call it the 3:4 concept , or how does 3 'turn into' 4 ?
There are 4 fundamental states , that is clear ; it is evidenced everywhere from the ancient 4 element theory through to the 4 fundamental forces of physics . In some way or version or other , every '4 ' has a '3' at its core ; either originating the 4 , or a triangular relationship generated by a 1 , or a triangular relationship with a 1 as its pendant .
Some demonstrations; Looking at the Hermetic Tree of Life , we see the 3 supernals at the 'top' in the 'ideal ' realm and below that abyss which separates the ideal from the real , we have the other Sephiroth coming together as the '4' eventuating in 'reality ' . Going to the other end of the spectrum we have the 'Four Fundamental Forces' of physics ; The Weak Force( particle decay and reactions like nuclear fusion ) , the Strong Force ( , it holds elementary particles called quarks together to create larger composite particles like protons and neutrons ) , Electro-magnetic Force ( that governs how electrically charged particles interact ) and Gravity ( a force that pulls objects towards one another ) . Everything in the physical Universe is generated from those fundamental forces .
Now here we have a chance to demonstrate the 'Universal Law ' of 3:4 ;
First I will cite the Tao te Ching - the reason I like this is it explains the raw principle without the metaphors put upon them ( like the above metaphors of 'forces' ) .. it also shows that numbers 'generate out of ' each other ;
Ch 42 ; Dao ( 0 ) gave birth to one
One gave birth to two
two gave birth to three
Three gave birth to all things .
All things manifested carry the 'signature' of the two ( yin and yang )
they reach harmony by blending .
I am concentrating ( for now ) on those first four lines . It is clear that the 4 th principle ( 'all things' - the manifest Universe ) , generates 'out of' out of the previous 3 , 2 , 1 , 0
[ Aside ; its also in the atom ; proton , neutron, electron = atom .... 3: 4 and many other things ... for a fuller demonstration see my article on 'Neo-hermetics' ;
I was thinking lately and I got that interesting idea that the core of our society became numbers. This is just my theory about the basic philosophy of our society, but would like to know what you think. Greek philosophers defined a world where the highest ideas are numbers, the most perfect...
wizardforums.com
post 4 - in the 'spolier ' ]
So , my 'Neo-hermtics' postulates that the four fundamental forces of physics did not just appear or generate all at once - somehow, as science seems to suppose (or not even address ) but they generated sequentially out of each other . And we might even be able to relate them to the elements ... I won't go deeply into that , but for now say EMF seems to relate to 'Air' and Gravity to 'Earth' ... gravity is an obvious physical manifestation .
Now, science has a problem , they cannot make their idea work . They cannot make a 'Unified Field Theory ' ; they can unify the first three forces but that pesky gravity refuses to conform form them . Maybe its impossible because gravity comes out of a sequential arrangement and 'flows from' the generative forces of the first three ? So they 'barking up the wrong tree ' in trying to find a 'Unified Field' Theory .
and just in case people think I am nuts ... guess what ?
'' Entropic gravity, also known as emergent gravity, is a theory in modern physics that describes
In any case , let us move on to your second part ;
'' ... as the alchemists of antiquity well knew and, these three act in seven ways.''
How and why ? We seem to be looking at a whole different set of dynamics here :
I am curious to see how these 3 'fit into ' 7 ? Or how the 3 'act in ' 7 ways ( except in writing and 'drama' theory , but that is a man made construct as is the other theory of 3 : 7 within Aristotelian and Scholastic logic ) ?
The most common form of the origin of 7 in occult matters or natural science is by observation of the 'Cosmos' ; the 7 'wandering bodies ; Sun, Moon and the 5 inner visible planets . To me this a separate field and not generated from the first field .
Another 'field ' which shows interesting interaction between 'natural science ' ( the 3:4 principle , and a human mental postulation ) is base 12 . The basis of many ancient cultures calculations and divisions of energy and cosmos . aside from the ease of using base 12 (in the old world ; an ease of multiple divisions like a half , thirds and quarters , it was an easy finger counting method , containing the 3:4 principle - 4 fingers each with three segments , using the thumb as the indicator ; 1 - 12 on the right hand , and the same on the left but keeping count of the divisions of 12 , making a 'gross total' of 144 ... and could be signaled from a distance - say , on a trading post or dock . )
- I will leave this here and await your deeper views and explanations on how you see the questions I posed to you about your ideas so far .
Well, I will add one more quote about these 'Mystery of Mysteries ' - its from the Gnostic Mass - Liber XV ;
''Mysterious Energy, triform, mysterious Matter, in fourfold and sevenfold division, the interplay of which things weave the dance of the Veil of Life upon the Face of the Spirit ... ''
IE . the question of this 'interplay ' ( your 'three act in seven ways ' ) ... and the first question regarding your 'three fundamental states ' ... instead of 4 and the three fundamentals being 'ideal forces' and not 'states ' ( a state requires a manifesting medium ... something to 'be in' that state ) .
Haha, 'boss-level player', says the walking 23-volume occult encyclopedia Nah, I'm just this library rule enforcer who takes up to three hours to come up with a halfway intelligent two-paragraph reply.
My only comment tactics are "It's vastly more complicated than you think!" and "The universe is much too chaotic to conform to any rules dreamt up by humans".
But we humans dream that we might be able to detect the universes OWN LAWS .. that apply in 'signatur ' through out the whole of life, physics , natural science , etc
then we have a 'litmus test ' a gauge, a blue-print , to hold up against our ideas and systems . For me ; if they match , its valid and has worth .... if they dont ?
Well they could just be some weird human 'head trip ' ..... 'dreamt up by humans ' .. and they seem to have a history of being , at least , rather problematic
- and that is the whole reason for all my 'Neo-hermetic stuff ' .
"Universal principles" of any kind (even in modern physics and mechanical engineering, field theories, and so forth) and the people who believe in them firmly, are usually quite obnoxious and draining for me to engage with. The world is full of so much diversity and complexity and mystery, and some people simply can't stand that I guess, so they have to reduce everything to generic homogenized slop and force square blocks into circular holes or mash the wrong puzzle pieces together just to get it done. They lack the self-awareness to identify this impulse and so they are largely acting out of an unconscious need for control in their life. My heart goes out to all those in the thread responding to it and trying to reach out to this person. I haven't the energy for it myself. Best of luck to you.
Is it not intereting how that core looks like a toroidal field that is the perfect expression in three dimensions as well as hyper dimensions, of polarity that represents vibration of oscilating fields.
There is no such thing as "the seven principles of the Dao". I also believe you made a typo and the intention was to wrtie "Qi" and "Pu", not "Qu" and "Pi". That's not even mentioning that Qi and Yin-Yang are not even specifically Daoist concepts. If anything, you can find a seven if you take the passage "Dao creates One, the One creates Two, the Two create Three, the Three create all things", except of course you're not supposed to count the Dao itself and you'll end up with six.
Weeelll ... there sorta is , except 1 of the 7 is actually 3 9 'The Three Treasures ' ... which then really makes 10 . And of course one of those is yin yang (principle 3 ) which is really 2 so now 11 ! The 'magic number ' of ' Magick '
But WHY are there 7 ? Dont blame the ancient Egyptians ; , the specific formulation of these "seven principles" is a modern adaptation used by contemporary practitioners and study groups to summarize the philosophy. In ancient texts, ethical living was more famously reflected in the 42 Negative Confessions .
I bey ypu can attribute these 'modern 7 ' to the 'qualities of the planets ' .
I also bet you can attribute the ' 7 heads of To Mega Therion - The Great Beast ' to the planets as well
These seven principles have nothing at all to do with Hermes, you are quoting the Kybalion and by that point the fact that Atkinson was a hack and his books are full of nonsense should be common knowledge (has "Arcane Formulas" is not bad in comparions to the rest of his works though, I have to admit)
yeah ... Neoplationism would be the reference there ... but no 7 principles ... it does have 3 though
3 foundational realities - 'Hypostases ' ; an underlying state, reality, or substance that supports something else
A bit like my 'ideal principles ' behind and that cause ' reality ' / 'nodes of reality ' before 'stasis ' and 'stasis can be used to describe different types of states ... like the FOUR states of matter ; 3:4 again .
"These seven principles have nothing at all to do with Hermes, you are quoting the Kybalion"
Have you heard of the "Corpus Hermeticum"? Its all in there. Or the older 1600's translation by John Evererd under the name : The Divine Pymander.? Though those two are from Latin to English- the first one mentioned being translated by the late GRS Mead- the bloke that translated the well-known Pistos Sophia writiungs too btw in the start of the 1900's.
There was a Greek to English also translated 3 - 4 decades ago by Brian P. Copenhaver . Naturally it was originally translated from Greek to Latin then to English so Brians one is worth using to compare the other two versions. The seven principles are all in there, though its not done in the new age format you mentioned which is hardly an authoritive source, though I understand its all most people know about when it comes to Hermetics. So no, you are wrong with you silly statement about me quoting the Kyballion is simply ridiculous Btw The auther of that book, William Walker Atkinson as well as that silly one you recommedned, "Arcane Formulas", are both blatantly new age books adapted from new age thought inspired by many writers from the Theosophical society and other such new age groups.
It really does pay to be informed. The Kyballion seems like bits of it was even garbled from genuine sources like Corpus Hermeticum though the auther never gave credit to it. He likely cauaght bits of it as was the case, with many of the new age writers of that era. Also much was by design hidden in plain sight so the uninitiated, wouldnt be able to understand. This is why you are confused about my source and the hermetic principles. Though actual seven are a a fundamental part of the ancient kemetic system.
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That isnt actually a "realm" of itself btw. Its part of the structure that holds the cohesion to proverbially act as a binder. Unless you refer to the "8th sphere", which is something very different. That term was used by Blavatski and Steiner originally, though it relates to passages from The Ogya or book Of Giants and other related texts. A very different thing thats conceptualised as relating to "Da'ath" in kabaistic lore as it relates to the so called "fall".
I am hoping that you understand the differences between these two co0ncepts though neither is relevant in of itself in this specific conversation tbh.
Here is where you fall down . Although I am an hermeticist myself and do appreciate your contribution , why not just simply state what those 7 are with the source and direct reference ? To list all the above and blah blah rakka rakka , to some , who are not going to search through all that in the hope of finding what you did ... will not satisfy them and just antagonize more .
I highlighted some things up there in the quote that may be causing 'triggers' .
Stage 1: Occasional Misuse and Social Drinking.
Drinking is mostly confined to social scenarios. However, it transitions toward binge drinking or using alcohol to change mood, reduce stress, or ease social anxiety. [
Stage 2: Increased Abuse and Binge Drinking.
Drinking becomes more frequent, heavier, and deliberate. The person may frequently exceed the recommended health thresholds or experience intermittent blackouts. [
Stage 3: Increased Tolerance.
The brain adapts to the regular presence of alcohol. The person requires substantially larger quantities of alcohol to feel the same intoxicating or relaxing effects they used to get from a few drinks. [
Stage 4: Problematic Behavior and Consequences.
The side effects of frequent drinking impact daily life. Neglected responsibilities at work, relationship friction, legal issues, or physical changes like noticeable bloating and fatigue emerge. [
Stage 5: Alcohol Dependence.
The body and mind now rely on alcohol to function normally. If the person stops drinking abruptly, they begin to experience physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms like tremors, sweating, or severe anxiety. [
Stage 6: Chronic Addiction (Alcoholism).
Alcohol becomes the central focus of daily life. The person experiences an obsessive urge to drink despite clear, negative impacts on their physical health, career, and relationships. [
Stage 7: End-Stage Alcohol Abuse.
This severe phase involves profound physical and mental deterioration. It is frequently accompanied by life-threatening health issues such as severe liver failure (jaundice), cognitive damage like Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome, and dangerous withdrawal risks that require immediate medical intervention
You must possibly be mistaken. There is no "intellectual brow-beating" happening here. I am merely admiting that I indeed did feel the way you felt in the early 1990's. Then I was discussing the difference betwen actual experience of living in the far east and training with actual masters for the better part of a couple of decades and in other places with other masters too during the couple decades of travel- which was essentially a practical education, rather than "intellectual" one people get from books. Pointinting out that it is the primary education where occult knowledge is concerned. I was also indicating that that there is a big difference between the two forms of learning. Please dont get over-sensitive and become hyper-emotional in what is a low-key and casual conversation. I was speaking in general terms and theres no need for you to take it personally because, we are after all, all adults here, right?
Big love
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I should add I am sorry if you felt offended at all, I actually mean none. I am so use to all the millenials and GenZ and even GenAlpha kids spewing so much new age vomit thesedays, so I might come accross as direct and tactless when speaking with peoplem that actually have more experience. There isnt a one way up the proverbial mountain and whats food for one is indeedf poison for another, so I actually do appreciate you poking at my thoughts as our mnutual poking makes us both stronger for it. No hard feelings,
only feelings.
Big Love
Listen up ! (and dont take it personally ) - a bit of advice ; ... its nice that you 'backpeddled ' but can we go on from here and you not insisting we 'snatch the pebble from your hand first ' ?
By the way ; I DID spend my time going to university , Sydney Uni ; Anthropology ( specializing in Cultural Anthropology) , Comparative Religion , Divinity , Soil Science { for a background in Agriculture ... which lead to 'Earth Alchemy ; Dio-dynamic Agriculture and a professional job in 'magick' ). I am old school and have lapped the Sun more than 70 times . Blah blah blah ... my experiences ... blah blah ... my validity ... blah blah blah .... including in nature and with some of the oldest cultures on the planet , also I have done series of initiations in various traditions and held an initiators degree myself .
BUT this is where we find ourselves now . It will not work here to 'Grasshopper ' people . That's it . It's our choice to use this medium . If I don't like all 'that stuff' that goes with it and the modern world ', and you don't either , we should stick soley to those 'inner order' organisations like 'The College of Hermetic Philosophers ' ...... but 'this' ain't it .
"Universal principles" of any kind (even in modern physics and mechanical engineering, field theories, and so forth) and the people who believe in them firmly, are usually quite obnoxious and draining for me to engage with. The world is full of so much diversity and complexity and mystery, and some people simply can't stand that I guess, so they have to reduce everything to generic homogenized slop and force square blocks into circular holes or mash the wrong puzzle pieces together just to get it done. They lack the self-awareness to identify this impulse and so they are largely acting out of an unconscious need for control in their life. My heart goes out to all those in the thread responding to it and trying to reach out to this person. I haven't the energy for it myself. Best of luck to you.
I feel like presenting these observations in such a matter-of-fact way is counterproductive to discussion. Because the reality is, regardless of how useful you or anyone might find these observations, they are not universal. The only thing I am absolutely certain of, is that nobody knows the "truth" of the mechanics of magic and the universe. I find it highly unlikely that any creature will ever be remotely capable of coming to any "true" understanding of these things, and I'm absolutely certain that it won't be humans. All we can hope to accomplish is find a compelling enough understanding for ourselves to live by and to do our work through.
Your understanding may provide you with a good foundation for your own personal working model, but in some places your observations seem to be extreme oversimplifications spun into something complicated. I also think that reading through all this is a bit exhausting, and honestly there isn't much point to slog through it if there is no room for debate. It's extremely counterproductive to a discussion, if we're all just grasshoppers who lack your decades of travel and study with masters etc. What are we supposed to do here then, accept this profound wisdom as fact and say thank you?
I will be the jerk that just says the thing 'Cool, you know all the parts of the airplane, but can you fly the damned thing?' Cause that matters way more than the former in my view.
Knowing and articulating the mechanics in great detail is neato I guess, but that is only the map. Unless you have actually been on the terrain, you dont even know that the map is not the actual terrain. They differ in places that surprise you. Maps arent bad, but they are often not the terrain.
I'd rather hear about your travels than your knowledge of maps.
Very articulate original post though. Way too articulate for my taste. But right on.
So , my 'Neo-hermetics' postulates that the four fundamental forces of physics did not just appear or generate all at once - somehow, as science seems to suppose (or not even address ) but they generated sequentially out of each other .
One interesting point is that big bang theory as it stands - whatever one thinks of it - does postulate that as the universe cooled from the initial explosion, each of the fundamental forces did actually emerge one by one at different temperatures, Out of each other? Who knows - but it is held that they didn't all appear at once.
Knowing and articulating the mechanics in great detail is neato I guess, but that is only the map. Unless you have actually been on the terrain, you don’t even know that the map is not the actual terrain. They differ in places that surprise you. Maps aren’t bad, but they are often not the terrain.
Perhaps the basic misunderstanding is that this forum's general consensus is based on relativism (the odd fanatic notwithstanding), meaning that everyone here has their own ideas how magic works and that nobody's model is 'truer' than someone else's. This is why a thread titled The Universal Principle At The Core Of All Occult Workings is bound to generate some pushback, and that's why so many replies mention maps, maps forum members have drawn for themselves and may hold dear but won't push on others. It's let and let live mostly, but serious bickering will invariably ensue when someone uses dubious or discredited sources (like the Kybalion, I'm sorry to say), quotes a controversial author, or indulges in spurious scientism (misunderstood Observer Effect, quantum physics mangling, etc.). Someone would make a bold claim, and sooner or later another member will reply: "Source? Where's the textual and/or archaeological evidence for that?" Some discussions proceed on an extremely high academic level, viz. the various debates about Lucifer or the Bible:
Any maps received from supernatural beings by way of revelation will be usually torn apart as UPG (= Unverified Personal Gnosis); some suspiciously slick tutorials posted here get regularly exposed as AI slop, and posters may be accused as LARPers (LARP = Live Action Role Players) if their fanciful experiences border too much on gothic fiction. Given the wealth of information available these days, esp. scholarly literature, many acclaimed authors from the past wouldn't to get away with their maps since so many original texts are now available as translations. We're a sceptical bunch and not easily impressed, that's all I'm saying.
Dammit, man. That tactic will not work here. Not for the folks on this thread. You are new, but HoldAll is not just some wet-behind-the-ears, wide-eyed kid you can intellectually browbeat.
I see the three fundamental states as relationships between four components of which things are made.
As in the that which begins, That which ends and that which connects/ unity, multiplicity and the division of unity that is multiplication of multiplicity- can you here see the Yang, Yin and Dao hidden in the core of these words? As with thought, energy and form, where thought is acting upon Form, being acted upon by thought and energy as the conduit(Dao) whereby thought acts though it as a medium while form is acted upon vfia this medium simultaneously, this represents the active, passive and two-way channel whereby action is achieved and passivity maintained, The proverbial father that acts within the mother via his axis mundi, the mother whom receives this action via the womb of the world or soul and the child, who is the produce of faters action as equally as the reflection of the unchanging soul of the mother that binds that acttion.
Thus the mystic number three is the expression of the number 4's actualisation.
Thats a long answer, though thats where I come from..
The Spirit higher world, the middle world and underworld respectively of the shamanic spheres- its thus in Himalayan shamanic lore and, is universally appl;ied as the three domains of the Norse Tree and the Atziluth, Briah and Yetzirah- which three coalise to manifest as Assiah, or the divisions that the three Banghs in yoga represent abstractliy- three connectors in the energy body. The Causal, astral and etheric bodies that find through interaction a fourth representation that embodies the interaction as phystcial body.
The Ida, pingala & Sushumna nadi's represent the manifestation of these three fundamental states in the physical body as the yang, Yin and Dao represent the twin serpents around the middle staff in caduceus.
One interesting point is that big bang theory as it stands - whatever one thinks of it - does postulate that as the universe cooled from the initial explosion, each of the fundamental forces did actually emerge one by one at different temperatures, Out of each other? Who knows - but it is held that they didn't all appear at once.
feelings.
wizardforums.com
which is hardly an authoritive source, though I understand its all most people know about when it comes to Hermetics. So no, you are wrong with you silly statement about me quoting the Kyballion is simply ridiculous
