[Opinion] Thelema.. Is it worth studying?

[Van Horne]

I would reckon if you were honest with yourself, you don't know either but you love being antagonistic for some reason.

As the great German playwright and poet Friedrich Schiller (no drug addict AFAIK) wrote in his stage play "Intrigue and Love": To destroy bliss is also bliss!

Being a heroin addict kind of shows the whole thing is a farce.

Welcome to the world of the Occult, where everybody is either a fool, a failure or a fraud, or all three of them! The historical foundation of the Golden Dawn, one of the most influential organizations of modern magic and mysticism, is evidently based on a lie. Yet, the ideas and concepts of the order proofed to be worthy and still prevail and are practiced in many forms (one of them is Thelema). In these weird little universe of countless grimoires and schools and pathways, I would not search for truth but for inspiration. That's my personal take, of course!

 

[Firetree]

Since the topic is whether Thelema is worth studying, it is pertinent to point out one can achieve out of body states without belonging to an
organizational structure designed by someone (Crowley) trying to indoctrinate you into their personal religion. As well, deconstructing the top 2 AA grades as I've done is useful and on-topic to someone asking about Thelema in a left hand path forum.

Out of body states and the top two grades of AA are not where people are reporting the value of Thelema though .

What ? ..... never go to a certain country or explore their culture because their President is a dick and the government has some problems ?

I guess sometimes its hard to observe one's behavior objectively . So, what was it ? You got rejected , not allowed in, let down , ripped off ?

Or are you just an 'internet warrior ' that's never been in a group nor had inside experience ?

 

[Beyond Everything]

the top two grades of AA are not where people are reporting the value of Thelema though .

So the highest goal of the system being bullshit-ridden doesn't matter. Ok, I mean some people just need somewhere to belong and can't figure out things for themselves.

What ? ..... never go to a certain country or explore their culture because their President is a dick and the government has some problems ?

lol as analogies go, that is paper thin.

I guess sometimes its hard to observe one's behavior objectively . So, what was it ? You got rejected , not allowed in, let down , ripped off ?

You're deteriorating here. I made very specific critiques that hardly hinge on whatever motives you have an emotional need to attribute to me.

Or are you just an 'internet warrior ' that's never been in a group nor had inside experience ?

Inside experience of what? There's nothing in the AA that goes beyond what Crowley accomplished, so that's pretty simple to examine. Contrary to the AA's claims that the A∴A∴ is the one true and invisible Order which has operated under various names and guises throughout history to guide the spiritual evolution of humanity. It's just the agglomeration of some GD teachings, some Yoga, and Crowley's stuff, it isn't some timeless order and it's not the 'one true and invisible order' either lol

I know people have these notions of these amazing powerful occult groups that they can join, but they don't exist. It's all about individual development on an individual path. Otherwise you're just a carbon copy of another's (crowley's) limitations. And you go through a long teaching process imbibing into your 'subconscious' those limitations and distortions you're handicapping your development. So, there is more involved here than meets the eye.

 

[Firetree]

So the highest goal of the system being bullshit-ridden doesn't matter. Ok, I mean some people just need somewhere to belong and can't figure out things for themselves.

Nah, that got addressed above by members themselves and what I posted about higher degrees .

lol as analogies go, that is paper thin.

yeah ... agreed , but paper does have a 3rd dimension .... thin or not .

You're deteriorating here. I made very specific critiques that hardly hinge on whatever motives you have an emotional need to attribute to me.

Okay , just fishing . I suppose this os your way of saying , no, there is some other reason I am being an arse about it .

Inside experience of what?

Of bring in an order or a magical group ... or ANY group actually . You know what they say ?

' If you find a group that has a perfect system with a leader with no faults .... please tell me about it ! '

There's nothing in the AA that goes beyond what Crowley accomplished, so that's pretty simple to examine.

Ah, but no . Its what some of the students accomplish ! Its down right here via testimony. Here is some more paper analogy for you ; same applied in Martial Arts for me , I been in plenty dodgy systems with some real dick instructors , I harvest the gold , correct the mistakes, incorporate and move on . Now I am awesome

Contrary to the AA's claims that the A∴A∴ is the one true and invisible Order which has operated under various names and guises throughout history to guide the spiritual evolution of humanity. It's just the agglomeration of some GD teachings, some Yoga, and Crowley's stuff, it isn't some timeless order and it's not the 'one true and invisible order' either lol

I kinda enjoy occult 'founding mythology ' Yeah, its common . Some people learnt stuff from Freemasonry and that goes back to ancient Egypt

You should hear the one about why OTO is 'Templar' but also 'Oriental ' . '' Those rights make claims that are totally NOT historical ! ''

yep ... But some still learnt stuff and made advances though !

I know people have these notions of these amazing powerful occult groups that they can join, but they don't exist. It's all about individual development on an individual path.

Oh, I agree with that ! Ya gotta do it yourself , no one can do the work for you and many fail anyway .. that is clearly stated in at least one of those Thelemic organisations .

Otherwise you're just a carbon copy of another's (crowley's) limitations.

Thats pretty old hat nowadays ... besides I address that one in one of my above posts ... he hated that idea (or said he did ) .

And you go through a long teaching process imbibing into your 'subconscious' those limitations and distortions you're handicapping your development.

Ummm ....... no, I didnt .

So, there is more involved here than meets the eye.

Well, yeah ... you do realize the etymology of the word 'occult ' ?

( How can I resist ? ... considering your own choice of syntax . )

 

[BBBB]

The longer it goes, the more obvious it is that Thelema is worth studying, just like with Bardon topic. Perfect? No. Worthwhile? Yes. And I see Beyond Everything's attempts to ridicule everything comming back to him - talk about karma I wonder if pity would be even better...

 

[FireBorn]

I think any system is worth studying and following IF you believe in it. IF you think it has value. IF you are willing to do the work. Full stop.

Magick is about belief. Don't believe it, move on. Believe in it, watch what happens. Not sure why it matters if someone studies a system someone else didnt find value in. I mean the world is a pretty big place, lots of things out there that dont work for everyone. So fucking what.

I dont follow Thelema. I think there are some really great aspects of it, but I dont follow it. I tried it, it wasn't for me. No harm done.

What is the worst case scenario here? Someone goes against BeyondEverythings guidance and tries Thelema and later decides it isn't for them? And??? Want a prize? What if that person excels and their life changes for the positive? Does he truly give a shit? NOPE.

Everyone has a fear of being duped. Everyone wants guarantees. There are no such guarantees in anything in the occult/spiritual. None. More book quotes than experience is a sad fucking thing. Very prevalent in todays occult. Armchair occultists vs practitioners, we aren't the same.

 

[Yazata]

Whether you are Thelemite, Crowleyite, or full of spite.. there are lots of things that can inspire in these writings. One that has pumped me up many times when I wanted / needed it was this particular (audio) version of the third chapter of the Book of the Law

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

No need to listen to the whole thing, just wait till the drums kick in.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I found Crowley's writings extremely useful to me - but I never had any urge to follow his system. As @FireBorn states, and as is the rule in the occult as most other things: YMMV.

 

[hollowglasd]

Fascinating thread. Thanks to all who’s participating.