Thoughts on Mormonisim

[Xenophon]

I don't drink alcohol, but once in a while it doesn't hurt for one beer.

I was from a largely gentile town in Montana, maybe 10-15% Mormon. In high school, a lot of the Mormon kids cheated a bit on certain prohibitions like that. If asked for a number, I recall about half so-doing. BUT one tends to remember the one who did do the forbidden, not the rule abiding, so the real number might be lower. Of the ones I recall, 40% wound up in prison eventually, but that's a skewed sample, being too small. To wit two kids from the same family. So I can't draw conclusions whether early lapses lead to perdition.

 

[Khoren_]

Well, I grew up around Mormons, picked a few of their brains, and, coupled with my general interest in religion(s), I've picked up a few things. I can answer a few, i'm gonna do my best here... I'm going to be concise because i'm typing with one hand. (dont ask)

No experience with modern day Mormonism but i do like the theory that Joseph Smith was a ceremonial magician. I think John King did a decent interview on the topic. But yeah LDS probably mostly scam.

-Eld

Joseph Smith is wildy credited to be a former freemason, and given the knowledge presented, its very possibly he was the Kelley to Crowdey's Dee. (pun not intended). Kelley very much took advantage of Dee's credulity and ran with it.

Mostly agree but i was more asking if their religion has ang legitamacy in the occult sense

If we are to take any religion as legitimate, all religions are. I for one find any organized religion to be rife with debauchery and vice (or more accurately, people seeking power and wealth.)

And yeah, the whole harem thing is off-putting, specially if it is true that it seems common for way older men to pick way younger women(if not outright children).

According to my Mormon friends, that is a practice that is widely dissuaded in modern groups, though I'm sure there are still adherents. But given that even Crowley was no stranger to using the occult to get laid, Gardener definitely tried to use Wicca to form a sex cult around himself, the creator of Egyptian Masonry was (supposedly) a known scam artist, Kelley was (again, supposedly) a known scammer, the list goes on. A lot of cults were very much crafted for the purposes of power, wealth, or sex, and that includes a lot of abrahamic, or just monolatrous, organized religions. A good book I read years ago called

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by Vladimir Bartol almost outlines this progress and there are claims this is the source of the whole "40 virgins in heaven" idea westerners have about Islamic faith.

it has no real spiritual or "occult" value

I think the phrase you are seeking is that their teachings will not be useful to any magic user. If the claims that Smith was a Mason are to be believed, it can almost be guaranteed he used their teachings to craft the LDS.

I've heard that most Mormons are Freemasons.

As mentioned above, Smith is claimed by some to be one, but i know of no modern LDS adherent to be such, as their faith definitely deviates from Mason faith.

 

[Trialectical_Materialist]

Its always kinda looked like a scam to me tbh. What do you guys think?

Its a total scam but a hilarious one. I had some Mormon friends growing up so I just assumed it was like any other denomination, boy was I in for a surprise.
Renowned archeologist Joesph Smith supposedly found golden plates written in "reformed egyptian" a language that doesn't exist let alone have any connection to the native Americans who supposedly wrote the plates before they abandoned god and were cursed by the lord almighty too... checks notes be brown? Thank God for them that inbreeding can fuck up the brain otherwise their religion would have died out along time ago

 

[Xenophon]

Its a total scam but a hilarious one. I had some Mormon friends growing up so I just assumed it was like any other denomination, boy was I in for a surprise.
Renowned archeologist Joesph Smith supposedly found golden plates written in "reformed egyptian" a language that doesn't exist let alone have any connection to the native Americans who supposedly wrote the plates before they abandoned god and were cursed by the lord almighty too... checks notes be brown? Thank God for them that inbreeding can fuck up the brain otherwise their religion would have died out along time ago

Actually converts are a major source of new blood, too, and no more sceptical than those born to the faith. Probably rather less so. I'd venture that credulity has a good deal to do with personality deficiencies and isn't indexed to intelligence as such. (I have genius-level relatives who insist that CNN is a reliable source of news, for instance. Mostly because they are solipsists and want the world to stop bothering them.)

 

[Sabbatius]

Mormons are not Freemasons. To both Catholic and Mormon faiths Freemasons are seen as "evil" due to magic and other stuff. It's just spiritual monopoly at some points, it's blatant already.

You were a Mormon? Dayum, let me get you a virtual coffee ☕️ , as you missed a lot of it during your days as Mormon.

According to the

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: "Some early Latter-day Saints were Masons. Heber C. Kimball, Hyrum Smith, and others belonged to Masonic lodges in the 1820s, and Joseph Smith joined the fraternity in March 1842 in Nauvoo, Illinois.

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Soon after he became a Mason, Joseph introduced the temple endowment. There are some similarities between Masonic ceremonies and the endowment, but there are also stark differences in their content and intent." Mormons are perfectly fine with Freemasonry. My Schooling was in World religions and Mormonism was one I have written for extensively due to the amount of open research is available to use for parallel associations.

The first thing is Mormonism is Non-Trinitarian, which means the Father is not the Son and not the Holy Spirit and not the Father, etc. So God is not triune in equality. They believe Jesus is a Son of God, who did die for our sinful natures. They also believe he came to the lost tribes of Israel whom were located in ancient America, which is what the Book of Mormon is written in regards to. The LDS is headed by a living Prophet who can change religious text at any time, which means you can take an old Book of Mormon or Pearl of Great Price and compare it to a modern printing and find major changes, even to the outcomes of the stories within. They believe married women cannot enter Heaven without the permission of their husband. At one time, I do not know when it changed but apparently it did, people of color were not allowed to become members of the LDS because according to their Book, People of Color were cursed by God.

Overall, Mormonism is just another branch of Christianity most Christians despise because they added additional books, kind of like how Christians added books to the Jewish texts- go figure. Fair play.

 

[Konsciencia]

According to the

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: "Some early Latter-day Saints were Masons. Heber C. Kimball, Hyrum Smith, and others belonged to Masonic lodges in the 1820s, and Joseph Smith joined the fraternity in March 1842 in Nauvoo, Illinois.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Soon after he became a Mason, Joseph introduced the temple endowment. There are some similarities between Masonic ceremonies and the endowment, but there are also stark differences in their content and intent." Mormons are perfectly fine with Freemasonry. My Schooling was in World religions and Mormonism was one I have written for extensively due to the amount of open research is available to use for parallel associations.

The first thing is Mormonism is Non-Trinitarian, which means the Father is not the Son and not the Holy Spirit and not the Father, etc. So God is not triune in equality. They believe Jesus is a Son of God, who did die for our sinful natures. They also believe he came to the lost tribes of Israel whom were located in ancient America, which is what the Book of Mormon is written in regards to. The LDS is headed by a living Prophet who can change religious text at any time, which means you can take an old Book of Mormon or Pearl of Great Price and compare it to a modern printing and find major changes, even to the outcomes of the stories within. They believe married women cannot enter Heaven without the permission of their husband. At one time, I do not know when it changed but apparently it did, people of color were not allowed to become members of the LDS because according to their Book, People of Color were cursed by God.

Overall, Mormonism is just another branch of Christianity most Christians despise because they added additional books, kind of like how Christians added books to the Jewish texts- go figure. Fair play.

Interesting!

 

[Xenophon]

According to the

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: "Some early Latter-day Saints were Masons. Heber C. Kimball, Hyrum Smith, and others belonged to Masonic lodges in the 1820s, and Joseph Smith joined the fraternity in March 1842 in Nauvoo, Illinois.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Soon after he became a Mason, Joseph introduced the temple endowment. There are some similarities between Masonic ceremonies and the endowment, but there are also stark differences in their content and intent." Mormons are perfectly fine with Freemasonry. My Schooling was in World religions and Mormonism was one I have written for extensively due to the amount of open research is available to use for parallel associations.

The first thing is Mormonism is Non-Trinitarian, which means the Father is not the Son and not the Holy Spirit and not the Father, etc. So God is not triune in equality. They believe Jesus is a Son of God, who did die for our sinful natures. They also believe he came to the lost tribes of Israel whom were located in ancient America, which is what the Book of Mormon is written in regards to. The LDS is headed by a living Prophet who can change religious text at any time, which means you can take an old Book of Mormon or Pearl of Great Price and compare it to a modern printing and find major changes, even to the outcomes of the stories within. They believe married women cannot enter Heaven without the permission of their husband. At one time, I do not know when it changed but apparently it did, people of color were not allowed to become members of the LDS because according to their Book, People of Color were cursed by God.

Overall, Mormonism is just another branch of Christianity most Christians despise because they added additional books, kind of like how Christians added books to the Jewish texts- go figure. Fair play.

I recall in 1978 that the head of the LDS church claimed he was praying in their Tabernacle when God caved in and said, "Ok the priesthood is open to brothers." Coincidentally this came at a time when the feds were threatening to yank LDS tax-exempt status. I guess that makes the IRS "the scourge of God"?

 

[lee smith]

I have to say that I was a Mormon for about two years as a teen, but left the church when I became a member of a Pentecostal church. I was actually ordained at one point and ran a small home church. Anyways, most of the Mormons I met were good solid people worth knowing.The Church is also very pragmatic when it comes to material things. While I don't agree with their theology at all I do appreciate them as a people group.

 

[Xenophon]

I have to say that I was a Mormon for about two years as a teen, but left the church when I became a member of a Pentecostal church. I was actually ordained at one point and ran a small home church. Anyways, most of the Mormons I met were good solid people worth knowing.The Church is also very pragmatic when it comes to material things. While I don't agree with their theology at all I do appreciate them as a people group.

Yes, to be fair, there are a lot of stand-up Mormons. And the LDS does try to take care of its own.

 

[TheMouse]

im a sixth generation mormon on both sides . . . i stopped going to church when i was 16, back in the 80s, but have maintained an interest mostly because it's the only heritage i know . . . .

a couple years ago i stumbled across a book written by Joseph Smith's Mother, Lucy Mack . . . its a compilation of her journals over the years from before Joe was born . . . she was a Serious Visionary from a devout Universalist family and wrote extensively about wanting to find (or found) a True Church . . . she writes about her own visions . . . . . upstate New York, where they were living, was full of all sorts of spiritual fringe and "treasure seekers" . . . . .

Joseph Smith didnt write a single Word until about six months into his marriage with Emma when all of a sudden The Book of Mormon popped out, mostly in Emma's Handwriting . . (because, you know, she was just his secretary, yeah sure) . . . . . my theory is that Lucy Mack and Emma came up with the whole thing and Joseph had the charisma to pull it off . . and it became the family business . . . . . in the early days of the church, women held certain powers of the priesthood, like to anoint and heal . . . and they were way into herbalism and all kinds of stuff like that . . . . . I think it was a Whole different church before Joe was assassinated and Brigham Young took control, more like a General than a Prophet, and moved everybody West . . . . Lucy, Emma, and Joe's Brother all stayed behind . . . they couldnt stand Brigham Young . . . Young ordered all copies of Lucy Mack's book to be destroyed before republishing an "edited" version 20 years later . . . . . . .

 

[Morell]

im a sixth generation mormon on both sides . . . i stopped going to church when i was 16, back in the 80s, but have maintained an interest mostly because it's the only heritage i know . . . .

a couple years ago i stumbled across a book written by Joseph Smith's Mother, Lucy Mack . . . its a compilation of her journals over the years from before Joe was born . . . she was a Serious Visionary from a devout Universalist family and wrote extensively about wanting to find (or found) a True Church . . . she writes about her own visions . . . . . upstate New York, where they were living, was full of all sorts of spiritual fringe and "treasure seekers" . . . . .

Joseph Smith didnt write a single Word until about six months into his marriage with Emma when all of a sudden The Book of Mormon popped out, mostly in Emma's Handwriting . . (because, you know, she was just his secretary, yeah sure) . . . . . my theory is that Lucy Mack and Emma came up with the whole thing and Joseph had the charisma to pull it off . . and it became the family business . . . . . in the early days of the church, women held certain powers of the priesthood, like to anoint and heal . . . and they were way into herbalism and all kinds of stuff like that . . . . . I think it was a Whole different church before Joe was assassinated and Brigham Young took control, more like a General than a Prophet, and moved everybody West . . . . Lucy, Emma, and Joe's Brother all stayed behind . . . they couldnt stand Brigham Young . . . Young ordered all copies of Lucy Mack's book to be destroyed before republishing an "edited" version 20 years later . . . . . . .

This sounds so real. Really something people would do. I've heard, although I don't have it checked that first founder of Jehova 's Witnesses had long beard, but his successor decided that he wants to eradicate memory of the original leader so he banned beards.

 

[SHUMA-GORATH]

Mormons are big in DNA companies

 

[Amadeus]

I have digged into the book of Mormon, for experimentation, for some energy work, meditations. The book has quite interesting energy, calm, tranquil, somewhat blazing, slightly hot. I enjoyed studying it for a while.

I've known some Mormons, they were all very nice and friendly people. One of them turned into an atheist. I guess he was not exactly interested in it but maybe pressure from family forced him to do the missionary work. As far I know they do it for 2 years? Many of them enjoy the feeling of belonging, a communal experience.

I wonder where did Joseph Smith get the ideas to write something like this. The stories in there are really weird and so many, the book is about 500-550 pages long. Some part before the end where Jesus shows up looks like written off the bible. Maybe he was a really good writer and got the inspiration from the bible.

I guess it started off as a sect, sect outgrew into a religion, a big egregore or something.

 

[Sabbatius]

I have digged into the book of Mormon, for experimentation, for some energy work, meditations. The book has quite interesting energy, calm, tranquil, somewhat blazing, slightly hot. I enjoyed studying it for a while.

I've known some Mormons, they were all very nice and friendly people. One of them turned into an atheist. I guess he was not exactly interested in it but maybe pressure from family forced him to do the missionary work. As far I know they do it for 2 years? Many of them enjoy the feeling of belonging, a communal experience.

I wonder where did Joseph Smith get the ideas to write something like this. The stories in there are really weird and so many, the book is about 500-550 pages long. Some part before the end where Jesus shows up looks like written off the bible. Maybe he was a really good writer and got the inspiration from the bible.

I guess it started off as a sect, sect outgrew into a religion, a big egregore or something.

The Book of Mormon is literally, out of about five I can recall, one of the hardest texts I have ever forced myself to read. Joseph Smith went out of his way to reinterpret the language and grammar of the King James Bible into an early 19th Century religious text. The basis for the book is taking a legend that the Lost Tribes of Israel came to the Americas and had dealings with the Native populations. This was documented on early Golden Tablets which were, mysteriously, inscribed Roman breastplates in some magical language. Joseph Smith hid the tablets after apparently after showing only a handful of his followers.

I do not harbor any ill will to the Mormons I know personally. Almost all the Mormons, including a few family members, are excellent people and caring. I purposely never discuss their faith with them, even when they try to share it.

Joseph Smith was a charlatan. He knew enough in his youth, especially in the early revival/Great Awakening era, of Methodism, the precursor to the Charismatic Movement and Spiritism, to force himself into a pulpit and begin preaching whatever favored his fancy. As a self-proclaimed Prophet, he had the ability to mold and shape his practice into a facsimile of Freemasonry, an Ascended Master cult and an archaeological hoax nightmare with zero evidence.

 

[Amadeus]

Thanks for explaining, reminding Yes, I remember something about the Golden Tablets, I read the story somewhere, maybe on wiki or on the LDS website.

I agree, the book is most definitely one of the hardest texts to read for me too. I forced myself to read it for a while, mainly because of the energy and interesting states I kept getting from it. I wanted to see where it could possibly lead me to. The first times it was more interesting since it all felt so new but after a couple of rounds I felt like a toast. I ignored the toasted feeling and just focused on the text as something that can put me into a connection and to induce meditative states. At some point I just could not take it anymore.

I ended up reading it cover to cover just 7 something times. Every few years I go for a round again.

A mystery for me is where did my parents get the BOM from. I remember when I began getting interested in religions I discovered a book of Mormon at home, then managed to get the original English edition as well, from a used book store, for something like 30-50 cents. Like I wrote in another post, my parents never spoke about religion yet from somewhere they acquired it.

 

[Sabbatius]

A mystery for me is where did my parents get the BOM from. I remember when I began getting interested in religions I discovered a book of Mormon at home, then managed to get the original English edition as well, from a used book store, for something like 30-50 cents. Like I wrote in another post, my parents never spoke about religion yet from somewhere they acquired it.

The Book of Mormon was brought about by channeling the text through the use of

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via communication. Basically, he was stating what visions he saw as he was staring at a couple of rocks in a hat and someone transcribed his statements.

And again, as the use of Seer Stones and channeling the divine was common among the charismatics during the Second Great Awakening Period, it was commonplace for charlatans to implement differing forms of "folk magic" to bring in the mystical elements of faith.

 

[Johny111]

Let's keep in mind some facts about Mormonism. They baptize the dead. Also, supposedly, the entity that "revealed" the Book of Mormon to Joseph Smith is the "angel" Moroni, who was once a man. So, the spirit of a dead man. Mormons don't consecrate wine and bread, but water and bread. This tells us that this necromantic moment is significantly present in Mormonism.

 

[Missterry]

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were Freemasons. Their priesthood initiation ritual and their endowment ritual are derived from Freemasonry. There are youtube videos that show those rituals. When asked why those rituals are Masonic, Smith said that both Mormonism and Freemasonry came from the rituals and priesthood of the Temple of Solomon but that over the centuries Freemasonry became corrupt and that God had given Smith the pure version. Before he died Smith gave the Grand Hailing sign of a Freemason as a way to get help to save his life, but none of the Masons came to his aid.

 

[Wintruz]

Years ago now, in London, I used to encourage a coterie of young Mormons from Utah who were doing outreach work in the area. They came over once and, while I made them tea, I came back into the room to see them looking through my bookcases. I'm not saying it was awkward afterwards but I'm not not saying that either...

Theologically, Mormonism is a mess and I reject most of its basic premises. It does encourage wholesome behaviour though so I generally like many of the people and would rather see them doing what their doing than building their lives around consumerism and getting drunk.

 

[Missterry]

Yeah, Mormonism as a belief system is crazy, but the culture of Mormonism is really good. I would agree with you, I actually like Mormon culture.

On a different note, have you guys ever heard of the Mormon Illuminati? It used to be a secret society within the very early Mormon Church. The Mormon Illuminati would spy on Mormons and kill those who didn't follow the rules or culture and so on.