Tolkien's Orcs

[Morell]

Nit

Not to further derail the OP's subject, but you haven't read the books all the way through and yet you are posturing that Tolkien was racist for his characterization of orcs? You are not familiar with what Tolkien's orcs even are. They are not a natural, organic race that has developed naturally with the rest of Middle Earth's races. The first orcs were elves twisted by the dark influence of Melkor. The films show them being literally born out of mud, fully matured and ready to fight. The Balrogs, lesser demons, are also creations of Melkor. They are evil because they were made to serve Melkors cosmic campaign against Iluvitar, the true God of the world, under Sauron's and other dark lords' command. None of these are stand in's for real world peoples in an attempt to demonize them.

Perhaps actually know the material you are attempting to critique before opening your mouth.

Post automatically merged: Today at 3:04 PM

Also that is an intentionally abridged recollection for the sake of brevity and clarity. Please true Tolkien loreists, don't crucify me for not mentioning Morgoth or some such.

Let's continue this convo on orcs...

I wouldn't crucify you for Morgoth but for the orcs coming out of mud being based. The movies would not go that easy with the audience, fi they were showing how really orcs, the degenerated elves, were combined with evil humans. Raping women would not show well in these movies and where are female orcs anyway? And you couldn't just show normal way of giving birth either. Those artificial egg like wombs were interesting alternative, honestly, making the movies less evil.

 

[rin_]

As somewhat of an aside(?), I think it’s important to remind ourselves—although I may be only speaking to myself lol—that books and movies are two radically different mediums. Artistic license, time constraints, and marketability/palatability (etc.) all play into how a movie is adapted from a book or book series/collection. Unfortunately there are sometimes arguably “key parts” that go unaddressed or that feel insufficient or lacking appropriate context. Sometimes things even go against the text itself. Clearly the Orcs are not an exception, but I personally feel the movies didn’t do a terrible job. It’s more like…maybe pouring over Wikipedia vs a host of more intensive sources, or a prelude/introduction rather than a comprehensive investigation.

For the movie fans, I hope they can learn from and enjoy what they see and be inspired to find out more by reading the books.

I’ve enjoyed all the movies they’ve put out, but there’s really no denying Tolkien’s books have greater depth. I just try to enjoy each for what they are separately, acknowledging the pros and cons of the confines of each. (Granted…totally a book vs movie person, so I am inherently biased.)

As I understand it, Tolkien had a major worldview shift that influenced his writings after he’d already begun. Either way, his presentation of nuance and his genuine affection and appreciation of various races, languages, and cultures is something we can all learn from.

 

[Morell]

I agree that the books and the movies are different and LOTR movies are incredibly well made.

They did a lot of alterations and adapting, like taking quotes from the book that were said by one character were said by someone else in the movie, but overall the language styles were preserved. As adaptations the movies were really well made.

Even considering orcs. They have pointy ears to keep some distant resemblance with elves. The ones from Mordor and Orthank are different, it is kinda visible in the movies, great touch!