Voudon Gnostic Workbook

[Dashman90]

To those with experiences in Lesson Four: How to Control the Minds of Other People,

I am wondering if I was to use the ritual for sexual experience, would it have to be somebody who I see regularly or can it be somebody who I met once, hung out with and havent seen them since but still in contact with?
Also, how long should I allow for it to work and should I actively be trying to meet or contact this person?

In regards to Lesson Eight: How the Hoodoo is a Success in Love and Sex,

Bertiaux reffers to 'the chart' from Lesson Four, however, Lesson Four refers to the magick square. In lesson 8 he does also reference a piece of paper so Im wondering if this is the same thing or not because in various parts of the book he gives the impression that his students have already built up a sufficient amount of experience before doing this work, so Im wondering if theres some things I should know from elsewhere or can somebody recommend any material that may help clear some of these issues up?

 

[stalkinghyena]

I am wondering if I was to use the ritual for sexual experience, would it have to be somebody who I see regularly or can it be somebody who I met once, hung out with and havent seen them since but still in contact with?

I don't have the reference at hand, but I do recall that his imagery and recommendations are pretty extreme. The one that comes to mind involves visualizing one's self as some kind of Haitian monster and astrally attacking the object of desire with rapacious lust.
I can't say which would be easier - the more well known person or less well known - I imagine he would say go with whatever comes out of your lust following his suggestive method of description. I believe the Lucky Hoodoo spirits should probably be consulted, and I do recall he gives various methods for divination which are purely experimental. One should also consider the spirits are a part of the process, especially since he enthusiastically recommends that possession by them is essential and necessary.

Bertiaux reffers to 'the chart' from Lesson Four, however, Lesson Four refers to the magick square. In lesson 8 he does also reference a piece of paper so Im wondering if this is the same thing or not because in various parts of the book he gives the impression that his students have already built up a sufficient amount of experience before doing this work, so Im wondering if theres some things I should know from elsewhere or can somebody recommend any material that may help clear some of these issues up?

My understanding is that most of these instructions were done via postal correspondence, so I imagine his responses would be on a case by case basis. There is an element of the fragmentary here, but consider the Workbook isn't necessarily a systematic compilation, but nor is it really a hodge-podge. I agree that there is a level of experience that is expected, and there are probably elements he did not publish in the workbook. Some terms he doesn't bother to even supply a definition for. But I think he wants the general reader to be creative, using their imaginations bouncing off his examples.

But the rule for most operations (the "Enochian" style square's for instance) seems to fall under patterns based on the number 16, so the figures he develops all flow from there. I think this number and its derivatives are very important within his framework.

As far as external materials, all I can think of is Kenneth Grant, who ties Bertrieaux's work into his general scheme of the "Revival", though frequently repudiating homosexual methods as being a misinterpretation of the XI degree OTO scale - even by Crowley himself.

 

[Beyond Everything]

To those with experiences in Lesson Four: How to Control the Minds of Other People,

If this worked, why would Bertriaux have to behave like this?

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[Dashman90]

If this worked, why would Bertriaux have to behave like this?

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If what worked and behaved like what?

Post automatically merged: Friday at 8:16 PM

I don't have the reference at hand, but I do recall that his imagery and recommendations are pretty extreme. The one that comes to mind involves visualizing one's self as some kind of Haitian monster and astrally attacking the object of desire with rapacious lust.
I can't say which would be easier - the more well known person or less well known - I imagine he would say go with whatever comes out of your lust following his suggestive method of description. I believe the Lucky Hoodoo spirits should probably be consulted, and I do recall he gives various methods for divination which are purely experimental. One should also consider the spirits are a part of the process, especially since he enthusiastically recommends that possession by them is essential and necessary.


My understanding is that most of these instructions were done via postal correspondence, so I imagine his responses would be on a case by case basis. There is an element of the fragmentary here, but consider the Workbook isn't necessarily a systematic compilation, but nor is it really a hodge-podge. I agree that there is a level of experience that is expected, and there are probably elements he did not publish in the workbook. Some terms he doesn't bother to even supply a definition for. But I think he wants the general reader to be creative, using their imaginations bouncing off his examples.

But the rule for most operations (the "Enochian" style square's for instance) seems to fall under patterns based on the number 16, so the figures he develops all flow from there. I think this number and its derivatives are very important within his framework.

As far as external materials, all I can think of is Kenneth Grant, who ties Bertrieaux's work into his general scheme of the "Revival", though frequently repudiating homosexual methods as being a misinterpretation of the XI degree OTO scale - even by Crowley himself.

I havent got to the part with the Haitian monster yet but thanks for the warning

 

[Beyond Everything]

I thought I linked to the blog post describing the 'sex pest' behavior of Bertiaux, here I'll paste some of it from 'Frater Barrabbas'

'My initiation consisted of first being completely naked, presented to the various spirits and lwa of the dead, then being forced to drink a third of a bottle of Wild Turkey, and finally, being sexually accosted by this man. I remember distinctly lying naked on the floor of his temple, with this rather flabby fury man laying on top of me, pinning me down while attempting to french kiss me (as I gritted my teeth) and thereby arouse me. Yet all it did was bring out in me a sense of complete revulsion and a stubborn willpower to keep myself from being violated in any manner. I succeeded in that, but then probably didn’t receive the full blessing of being magickally affected or transformed by Michael’s operation. I was given a title and an accolade later, but I actually felt little changed, and I was just relieved that I had avoided any spiritual contamination. My teacher just accepted all of this without a single complaint, and didn’t intercede for me when it was obvious that I was resisting Bertiaux with all my efforts. I was also restrained out of courtesy and some degree of openness to Michael, since otherwise, I would have become violent towards him.

I now know why Christopher didn’t interfere with Michael when he was assaulting me, and that is, he had hopes to receive the many blessings of Bertiaux’s initiations. Indeed, he underwent many initiations, got his bishop’s consecration and other titles, and much of this is actually documented in his books. Christopher, or Bill Schnoebelen, which was his real name, completely cooperated with Michael Bertiaux for a couple of years. He probably had to endure quite a bit of sexual abuse at his hands. I have heard that others who have sought out initiations from Michael Bertiaux received far more than they bargained for, having to forbear him with the favor of anal sex as a certification of the transmission of legitimate occult initiations. Although I had been offered such enticements myself, after just one episode, I tactfully demurred any further accolades. I found Michael’s admission price for initiation into his dubious mysteries much too high to pay, and I knew that I could get the same lore and initiations (if I really wanted them) from other less exploitative sources.

---

While I stayed with Michael for that one full weekend (and there was another brief weekend some months later), I had to fend him off constantly'

Sounds like a desperate hard-up guy using any excuse to try and finagle some action. Not someone whose occult workings work.

 

[Dashman90]

I thought I linked to the blog post describing the 'sex pest' behavior of Bertiaux, here I'll paste some of it from 'Frater Barrabbas'

'My initiation consisted of first being completely naked, presented to the various spirits and lwa of the dead, then being forced to drink a third of a bottle of Wild Turkey, and finally, being sexually accosted by this man. I remember distinctly lying naked on the floor of his temple, with this rather flabby fury man laying on top of me, pinning me down while attempting to french kiss me (as I gritted my teeth) and thereby arouse me. Yet all it did was bring out in me a sense of complete revulsion and a stubborn willpower to keep myself from being violated in any manner. I succeeded in that, but then probably didn’t receive the full blessing of being magickally affected or transformed by Michael’s operation. I was given a title and an accolade later, but I actually felt little changed, and I was just relieved that I had avoided any spiritual contamination. My teacher just accepted all of this without a single complaint, and didn’t intercede for me when it was obvious that I was resisting Bertiaux with all my efforts. I was also restrained out of courtesy and some degree of openness to Michael, since otherwise, I would have become violent towards him.

I now know why Christopher didn’t interfere with Michael when he was assaulting me, and that is, he had hopes to receive the many blessings of Bertiaux’s initiations. Indeed, he underwent many initiations, got his bishop’s consecration and other titles, and much of this is actually documented in his books. Christopher, or Bill Schnoebelen, which was his real name, completely cooperated with Michael Bertiaux for a couple of years. He probably had to endure quite a bit of sexual abuse at his hands. I have heard that others who have sought out initiations from Michael Bertiaux received far more than they bargained for, having to forbear him with the favor of anal sex as a certification of the transmission of legitimate occult initiations. Although I had been offered such enticements myself, after just one episode, I tactfully demurred any further accolades. I found Michael’s admission price for initiation into his dubious mysteries much too high to pay, and I knew that I could get the same lore and initiations (if I really wanted them) from other less exploitative sources.

---

While I stayed with Michael for that one full weekend (and there was another brief weekend some months later), I had to fend him off constantly'

Sounds like a desperate hard-up guy using any excuse to try and finagle some action. Not someone whose occult workings work.

I thought I linked to the blog post describing the 'sex pest' behavior of Bertiaux, here I'll paste some of it from 'Frater Barrabbas'

'My initiation consisted of first being completely naked, presented to the various spirits and lwa of the dead, then being forced to drink a third of a bottle of Wild Turkey, and finally, being sexually accosted by this man. I remember distinctly lying naked on the floor of his temple, with this rather flabby fury man laying on top of me, pinning me down while attempting to french kiss me (as I gritted my teeth) and thereby arouse me. Yet all it did was bring out in me a sense of complete revulsion and a stubborn willpower to keep myself from being violated in any manner. I succeeded in that, but then probably didn’t receive the full blessing of being magickally affected or transformed by Michael’s operation. I was given a title and an accolade later, but I actually felt little changed, and I was just relieved that I had avoided any spiritual contamination. My teacher just accepted all of this without a single complaint, and didn’t intercede for me when it was obvious that I was resisting Bertiaux with all my efforts. I was also restrained out of courtesy and some degree of openness to Michael, since otherwise, I would have become violent towards him.

I now know why Christopher didn’t interfere with Michael when he was assaulting me, and that is, he had hopes to receive the many blessings of Bertiaux’s initiations. Indeed, he underwent many initiations, got his bishop’s consecration and other titles, and much of this is actually documented in his books. Christopher, or Bill Schnoebelen, which was his real name, completely cooperated with Michael Bertiaux for a couple of years. He probably had to endure quite a bit of sexual abuse at his hands. I have heard that others who have sought out initiations from Michael Bertiaux received far more than they bargained for, having to forbear him with the favor of anal sex as a certification of the transmission of legitimate occult initiations. Although I had been offered such enticements myself, after just one episode, I tactfully demurred any further accolades. I found Michael’s admission price for initiation into his dubious mysteries much too high to pay, and I knew that I could get the same lore and initiations (if I really wanted them) from other less exploitative sources.

---

While I stayed with Michael for that one full weekend (and there was another brief weekend some months later), I had to fend him off constantly'

Sounds like a desperate hard-up guy using any excuse to try and finagle some action. Not someone whose occult workings work.

Oh haha. Funny how I skipped that the first time. Yeah thanks for sharing. Fucking hell. Thats bad and not surprising at the same time

 

[stalkinghyena]

'My initiation consisted of first being completely naked, presented to the various spirits and lwa of the dead, then being forced to drink a third of a bottle of Wild Turkey, and finally, being sexually accosted by this man. I remember distinctly lying naked on the floor of his temple, with this rather flabby fury man laying on top of me, pinning me down while attempting to french kiss me (as I gritted my teeth) and thereby arouse me. Yet all it did was bring out in me a sense of complete revulsion and a stubborn willpower to keep myself from being violated in any manner.

That is sooo hot!

I wonder if this was like a were-spider initiation thing. I've met the Spider Goddess in trance, but have yet to transform - it could be I way too am partial to bi-pedality. I think its a good idea to try to avoid confusing visionary complications with physical ones.