[Official] WF Book Sharing Manifesto: Authors/Publishers, please read

[Faria]

If the book really is worth it for me, I buy it.

And for every one like you, there are a hundred who will not buy. Of that hundred, of course many wouldn't buy no matter what, but at least a few might have made a purchase and then did not. So where you would have made, maybe, three sales, instead you make one.

When a person pays hard-earned cash for a book, usually the book gets read. Downloaded books tend to get skimmed.

So as an author, you get far fewer sales and then hardly anybody reads your content as soon as it hits the electronic exchange. What, then, is the point of writing if you can't expect to make money or even have people read what you say?

If you want books worth reading, it must be worthwhile to produce books, or people who can write well will do something else instead.

 

[Morell]

And for every one like you, there are a hundred who will not buy. Of that hundred, of course many wouldn't buy no matter what, but at least a few might have made a purchase and then did not. So where you would have made, maybe, three sales, instead you make one.

When a person pays hard-earned cash for a book, usually the book gets read. Downloaded books tend to get skimmed.

So as an author, you get far fewer sales and then hardly anybody reads your content as soon as it hits the electronic exchange. What, then, is the point of writing if you can't expect to make money or even have people read what you say?

If you want books worth reading, it must be worthwhile to produce books, or people who can write well will do something else instead.

I write for sharing... though I don't depend on that income so that changes a lot for me...
Though you made me thinking about one old work of mine I compiled together for the temple of the Valar. Maybe it's time to release it again...

 

[diana_i_gusarova]

Occult books are not entertainment literature. Not fiction. People buy or download it to study or work on it. It is designed for a very specific user base. And the usual book marketing doesn't work here. For an example. I am currently studying ancient astrology. And I bought a Chris Brennan paper book. I have it in electronic form in both Russian and English. But I need a paper book. And I bought it, despite the high price (almost a tenth of my monthly earnings). If I didn't need this book, no marketer would convince me to spend money on it.

 

[Morell]

I was thinking that I should say a word or two about marketing here, because standart way of offering the book in the store is extremely ineffective considering the competition.

If you want your books to sell, either write something that is demanded already... or create a demand. For example start a YT or social network on the topic of your interest and once it is big enough, you can offer them a book and you can expect that 1 of hundred buys a book. So if you have 10 000 subscribers, you can expect to sell 100 books. You need to keep in mind that a lot of subies are inactive and don't care much, so base must be big enough to be truly profitable.

The world doersn't care about one person or about following the rules, the life always finds a way and so do humans, each of them following their own path, their own needs and desires. It won't play the way we expect it to. But if we figure out how to play by the real rules of the world, then we profit the best... and that the most obvious ways are rarely effective ones.

 

[SkullTraill]

So yes, every time someone clicks on a PDF, that's $2-$5 that the author isn't getting.

Objectively wrong. Many (not all) small time occult authors come on WF and see their books have been downloaded 100s of times, and immediately get the idea that “omg I’ve lost 100s of dollars all these downloads would have been sales!!! Nooooo!!”

What a joke, and how self absorbed do you have to be to think that. I’ve said this before and I will say this again. NEARLY NOBODY who pirates your book WOULD HAVE PAID for it. Stop being delusional. A tiny, tiny percentage, maybe. But there will be a much higher percentage of people who end up buying current and future books after reading and enjoying a book that they downloaded for free. It’s also going to be a small percentage, maybe 3% vs 1% who would have paid for your book and didn’t because it was pirated. But overall it’s a net gain. BIG IF: only if your book is actually good. If your book is dogshit then of course people who pirate your stuff will never pay for it again.

The people who are most mad about their books being pirated are typically mediocre authors who greatly overestimate the value of their work. And honestly, if authors like that quit writing because of piracy. THEN GOOD. There’s so many dog shit low effort occult books out there.

Unlike a mainstream book, you are typically not able to skim a book in a book store before buying an occult book. There is no way to know if the book is going to be good or not. And a lot of shitty little “rehashers” and “regurgitators” take advantage of this by releasing poor quality books knowing people have to pay to get the book and then have no recourse when they realize the book is shit.

So what happens then when I pay for a shitty book and I don’t want it? I just have to suck it up? Fuck you.

Authors who love the game and genuinely produce top-tier content never worry about small piracy sites like WF because they know there are people who value having physical book and they know there are people who respect them and their work and they know that in the long run people being exposed to their work will result in more sales for them.

It’s understandable to be a little upset about your work being pirated, but if you QUIT WRITING because of piracy (I’m sorry for being brutally honest) that means YOUR WORK IS SHIT… and you know people who get to actually get to read your work would never pay for it again/wouldnt have paid for it if they knew how shit it was.

So to anyone who quits writing because of a little piracy: GOOD! You’ll never be able to stop WF, and WF will always look out for the little guy. You may think you’re the little guy but you’re not. The little guy is the person who buys books out of desperation, FOMO, or being mislead only to realize this book is half nonsense and half rehashed Agrippa and now they’ve lost their hard earned money on something that wasn’t worth it.

Stupid shit.

 

[Faria]

NEARLY NOBODY who pirates your book WOULD HAVE PAID for it.

There are a few authors, probably even some who read this forum, whose books I would have definitely purchased if not for them being free to skim here. There's a sort of casino dopamine hit you can get from cracking open a potentially brain-melting book, and even if it turns out to be some dude's bad poetry and ramblings about the Qabalah, it's still a desire fulfilled. You get to see what's in between the covers of something you wanted to see... and normally that costs money. Using these free files shortcuts that process.

The people who are most mad about their books being pirated are typically mediocre authors who greatly overestimate the value of their work. And honestly, if authors like that quit writing because of piracy. THEN GOOD. There’s so many dog shit low effort occult books out there.

I used to have the entire Michael Ford collection.... every single thing he ever put in print that I could find. They were all some of the absolute worst books I've ever read cover to cover, but I bothered to do so because I had a real physical book. If I had access to the PDF back then, I'd have skimmed a few pages, called it retarded, and never become one of his major collectors. Somewhere, he's bound to have made enough off that to at least eat a nice steak or buy a cool shirt or something, but a vibrant PDF exchange keeps that from happening very often for him as an author. Obviously he's not doing it for the $4 per title or whatever he makes off it, but I'm sure he'd be feeling much more successful as a writer if people had to buy his books to see what kind of ridiculous things he says.

It’s understandable to be a little upset about your work being pirated, but if you QUIT WRITING because of piracy (I’m sorry for being brutally honest) that means YOUR WORK IS SHIT… and you know people who get to actually get to read your work would never pay for it again/wouldnt have paid for it if they knew how shit it was.

Writing a book takes a lot of work, and the occult field is small but chock full of people who want free books, so a large part of the audience feels entitled to the work for free despite having the option to buy it. I agree with you that most of the occult material ever published is shit, and virtually everything contemporary is regurgitated something or other, but if you want to put in the time to make something that is not, it takes real work. Anyone writing for occult audiences has got to understand that they are throwing that time down a wishing well in terms of selling a book. Granted, people can give freely of themselves, but better quality products tends to follow better creator rewards.

 

[SkullTraill]

There are a few authors, probably even some who read this forum, whose books I would have definitely purchased if not for them being free to skim here. There's a sort of casino dopamine hit you can get from cracking open a potentially brain-melting book, and even if it turns out to be some dude's bad poetry and ramblings about the Qabalah, it's still a desire fulfilled. You get to see what's in between the covers of something you wanted to see... and normally that costs money. Using these free files shortcuts that process.

You know what they say about countering a generalized statement with a personal anecdote?

I used to have the entire Michael Ford collection.... every single thing he ever put in print that I could find. They were all some of the absolute worst books I've ever read cover to cover, but I bothered to do so because I had a real physical book. If I had access to the PDF back then, I'd have skimmed a few pages, called it retarded, and never become one of his major collectors. Somewhere, he's bound to have made enough off that to at least eat a nice steak or buy a cool shirt or something, but a vibrant PDF exchange keeps that from happening very often for him as an author. Obviously he's not doing it for the $4 per title or whatever he makes off it, but I'm sure he'd be feeling much more successful as a writer if people had to buy his books to see what kind of ridiculous things he says.

So you’re bragging about supporting, buying a steak for, and collecting the work of a shit author? What are you talking about? This proves my point even more. Why should anyone have to pay for shit books and waste their time reading them “cover to cover”?

???

Writing a book takes a lot of work, and the occult field is small but chock full of people who want free books, so a large part of the audience feels entitled to the work for free despite having the option to buy it. I agree with you that most of the occult material ever published is shit, and virtually everything contemporary is regurgitated something or other, but if you want to put in the time to make something that is not, it takes real work. Anyone writing for occult audiences has got to understand that they are throwing that time down a wishing well in terms of selling a book. Granted, people can give freely of themselves, but better quality products tends to follow better creator rewards.

1. Occult literature is among the least affected by piracy, even considering how niche the interest is as a whole, due to various factors such as collectors value, fear of traps/curses etc.
2. If most of the published occult material is shit how can you expect people to blind buy occult literature. People aren’t going to start buying useless books first and waiting for one day there to be authors who write good books instead of scamming to make a quick buck. No. First, let there be good books, then the reader mindset will change. In fact, that already is the case. As I have said many times before, if someone pirates a book and it’s actually really good, there is a very high chance that the person who pirated a book will purchase the next book by the author or a collectors edition etc. much more likely in occult literature than any other field of literature

You have not made a single compelling point? Like… what is this? “I pirate books personally… so piracy is bad”… and then “I bought some really shit books, but that’s great cause now I have a collection of shit books and the shit author can afford a steak and also I read them cover to cover… so piracy is bad” and finally the classic “Nooo! People didn’t resort to piracy because the quality of occult literature was so hit or miss!! Actually authors started releasing shit literature because of piracy!!!”

WTF is this. Don’t waste my time with this shit. You know what it looks like to me? It looks like (and this is pure conjecture) you wanted to get rich and retire off of being an author and you thought to yourself, let me write some shit books first, and when the money starts rolling in, THEN I’ll write an actual good book” and then no one bought that shit and you immediately resort to “omg fuck piracy, can’t have good books with all this piracy around”.

 

[Faria]

You know what they say about countering a generalized statement with a personal anecdote?

No, I do not. Feel free to let us know how that's relevant.

My point is that I am certain, from my own experience at the very least, that pirated books cost authors sales. Yes, the number of people who would have purchased the book is maybe 1% of those who would download it; but with the download available, that 1% becomes significantly less. The number of pirate-to-purchasers is also probably fairly small.

You have mentioned that some authors have complained about sales losses. Who? And were their complaints speculative or did they share data?

You have also mentioned that some authors like having their books available to funnel interest to their work. Who? I'd like to know which authors have said this.

Why should anyone have to pay for shit books and waste their time reading them “cover to cover”?

For me, to know what's written in them. Maybe others have different reasons.

But whether the book is good or bad, the author got paid. Do I care? No. Would I feel guilty if I did rip him off? No. But the fact is that he did get paid, and as an author I'm sure he's happy about that. I have a hard time imagining Michael Ford taking time to write 400 pages of psychotic infernal dragon sex mythology unless he was expecting his fifty bucks or whatever amount he had in mind as a profit for writing it.

It looks like (and this is pure conjecture) you wanted to get rich and retire off of being an author

Why would you have that idea? Seriously, what have I said that would give that impression?

I do not believe that the pirate-to-purchaser numbers cover the loss in sales. Somehow that means I expect to get rich from writing?

 

[SkullTraill]

No, I do not. Feel free to let us know how that's relevant.

It’s a sign of low intelligence.

I am certain

Then there’s no point arguing any more. I am certain of the opposite so let’s leave it at that.

You have mentioned that some authors have complained about sales losses. Who? And were their complaints speculative or did they share data?

Of course not. They bitch and moan but they obviously do not take the time to collect or analyze the data no doubt because it would never ratify their claims.

You have also mentioned that some authors like having their books available to funnel interest to their work. Who? I'd like to know which authors have said this.

No one has explicitly told me that but let me borrow a page from your book and say that I’m an author who’s saying that.

For me, to know what's written in them. Maybe others have different reasons.

And that was worth the money you spent on them? It’s gonna be a pass from me, dawg. Fuck that stupid shit.

But whether the book is good or bad, the author got paid. Do I care? No. Would I feel guilty if I did rip him off? No. But the fact is that he did get paid, and as an author I'm sure he's happy about that. I have a hard time imagining Michael Ford taking time to write 400 pages of psychotic infernal dragon sex mythology unless he was expecting his fifty bucks or whatever amount he had in mind as a profit for writing it.

Do I care if a worthless author is getting paid, happy and going to write more worthless books? No. I do not care.

Why would you have that idea? Seriously, what have I said that would give that impression?

I do not believe that the pirate-to-purchaser numbers cover the loss in sales. Somehow that means I expect to get rich from writing?

It was just a wild guess.

 

[Faria]

It’s a sign of low intelligence.

I've been posting here for a bit, and you have read at least a couple of my posts.
Do you think that I am a person of low intelligence?

Then there’s no point arguing any more. I am certain of the opposite so let’s leave it at that.

Ok.

Of course not. They bitch and moan but they obviously do not take the time to collect or analyze the data no doubt because it would never ratify their claims.

If you have some solid figures to share, I do not, but I would love to know if there is actual economic data about how well the whole "try first then buy" concept actually works for individual authors. Not suggestive magazine type articles about it, but actual data, if it exists.

And that was worth the money you spent on them?

In the long run, yes, I think so. They are extreme and bizarre, and challenging.

 

[Morell]

I'm with @SkullTraill on this.

You see, the isue with piracy is that it is not an issue, but symptom of an issue. Consider this: Piracy of computer games almost disapeared when Steam was lauched. Why? Because before that people needed to make copies and hacked games even performed better than official ones. (Assassinc creed 2 demanded login to web that unironicaly collapsed so official games didn't wrok while pirated ones did) Also moving game from PC to CP was a problem. CD/DVD got scratched, etc. This is not problem of people not wanting to pay, it's problem with miserable quality of service.

Or Netflix, that for a short time killed piracy of movies and series, putting them all on one place for low fee, untilll it broke with all those companies offering only their series... causing this kind of piracy to flourish again.

Now to us... We have a service problem too. You buy a book, especially occult and have no idea if it is what you want or even if you want that one. Descryptions are misleading, sellers do not know what they are selling. Not to mention Amazon with its policy of selling licences instead of books, making it same way as Steam while books are not the same as games. No. We need completely new approach at large.

But at personal level of single writer, your weapon of choice is not justice, but advertisement. Doreen Virtue or Silver Raven Wolf sold shit, yet they made a fortune, because they got community, they created the demand for selling their books. Without that you have to provide what people desire. Which of course is not quality, people want to read what they want to hear. Quality occult literature however sells too. Ixaxaar bets on quality of both content and print, selling print after print of their books.

So, if you are not selling, you are the one doing something wrong. Piracy is barely telling you that your book is out, being an advertismenet on itself. If it is good, some will go and look if they want to buy the paper. Price of books is also crazy, honestly. In Europe the books are cheaper than in USA too. ( even50% less)

But people will buy if they are convinced that it is what they want. Why do you think that advertisement is evolving now so hard? Big companies now hire psychologists to make their advertisement more efective, alṕps more adictive, so they can earn more money.

And you can do soemthing too to raise your sellings. It's in your hands. Keep in mind, that piracy indeed doesn't matter. Some movie companies now watch for how their movies are pirated as yet another variable showing how they are popular, because that peans that people are interested in them and even if they pirate one piece, they are more likely to buy next one...

 

[Faria]

Doreen Virtue or Silver Raven Wolf sold shit, yet they made a fortune,

I don't know about Doreen Virtue, but in 1999 SRW told me what she was making from her books and it was clear even then that writing was no path to meaningful money. A lot of occult-related authors are doing much more than just writing, and obviously these people probably couldn't care less about book sales because they're mostly in it for the other stuff.

If it is good, some will go and look if they want to buy the paper

That is the common theory. But is it true? I suspect - again, without any hard data - that the number of sales gained this way is very low, and that the number of people who chose to skim the free version and not buy (but who would have paid if that wasn't an option) are enough to make the writing gig a lot less financially attractive.

Just to be clear... my two points here are that A) piracy does impact author revenue, and B) author revenue is why people write good books. People will write books to be read and shared, and people will write awful books attempting to make money, but if we as a civilization want quality things to read, cash money is the bait that makes it happen. When a person is looking ahead at months of hard work, and then there's hordes of people who will pass it around for free as soon as it hits the market, the enthusiasm to produce quality content drops. Even if it's five bucks, authors want their five bucks, and the promise of that gets books written. Beneficent sharing leads to starvation, heartless not-sharing leads to prosperity.

 

[Morell]

but if we as a civilization want quality things to read, cash money is the bait that makes it happen.

Bait for who? Writer maybe, but not the reader. The bait for readers is recommendation, but not one in the begining of the book. It is when people spread the news about the book, speak about it and recomend it, that spreads the world and convinces people to buy. That gets us back to advertisement again.

Even if it's five bucks, authors want their five bucks, and the promise of that gets books written. Beneficent sharing leads to starvation, heartless not-sharing leads to prosperity.

Bookwriting was never really way to make money, you said it yourself and you are right. So I accepted that. As Occultist I do magic and trust that I get enough. No reason to fight over every copy. In fact, occult speaking, it would be contraproductive. I never wrote books to earn money. I wrote to write and share. Writing for money stinks to me. I don't do it to get rich. I'm not Booster Gold... what a sad character in fact...

 

[diana_i_gusarova]

In Russia, there is an online store called LitRes, where you can legally buy electronic copies of books for a small amount of money. Currently, such services are offered by two of the largest marketplaces - Ozon and Wildberries.
Perhaps this way will be able to reconcile the interests of authors and readers.