What happens to an ‘old soul’ after many reincarnations?

[Kepler]

H

M-theoryish

 

[Suayakoat]

@HoldAll I believe we make our own destiny by persevering through difficulties and choosing harsh life over comforting death (as I said that is the only choice that matters in my own comments) therefore it's entirely up to us to choose whether we want to face the difficulties of our existence and continue it or do we wish for sweet bliss in non-existence. I understand my framework may be a little bit over-the-top but I feel like it explains everything very well. We are "rewarded" for putting up effort into bettering our existence by it becoming less challenging and actually pleasant after it. And it then requires us to put in some more effort to become even more pleasant and to conform to our own wishes. And this process can go forever and ever, as much as we desired, or, to put it more bluntly-as much as we are willing to tolerate it.

@Beyond Everything why are you so annihilistic? Doesn't the world offers you chances to satisfy your desires, to move forward and express yourself, or simply to be, as you would like you to be? Is it all grim and dark for you? What is the childish and simplistic in the idea we all come from a chain of consciousness coming from consciousnesses devising reality upon reality? Why becoming a Creators sounds so nihilistic? Yes, pain and suffering are a part of life-it's inescapable. But so are creation and gratitude, and beyond them all-existence itself. Doesn't the fact that you exist, and continue to exist, brings you joy in itself? Why should we turn our backs on everything beautiful in this life just because we must also suffer and take hardship in order to continue experience it, to continue existing?

P.S. And yes, it's a school, and an opportunity, and a myriad of things simultaneously, too.

P.S. 2. @PinealisGlandia very interesting perspective, indeed, I do also accept that the Universe, and not just the Universe-but existence itself, is always expanding, yet, we all things are in balanced and any quantity is always kept in an e=ample supply with any other quantity it affects, and effects as all is beautifully and exceptionally well regulated!

 

[Beyond Everything]

@Beyond Everything why are you so annihilistic? Doesn't the world offers you chances to satisfy your desires, to move forward and express yourself, or simply to be, as you would like you to be? Is it all grim and dark for you? What is the childish and simplistic in the idea we all come from a chain of consciousness coming from consciousnesses devising reality upon reality? Why becoming a Creators sounds so nihilistic? Yes, pain and suffering are a part of life-it's inescapable. But so are creation and gratitude, and beyond them all-existence itself. Doesn't the fact that you exist, and continue to exist, brings you joy in itself? Why should we turn our backs on everything beautiful in this life just because we must also suffer and take hardship in order to continue experience it, to continue existing?

I specifically brought up the wasp larvae slowly devouring another creature while alive for a reason. What explanation is there for it if there's a creator? You say that sort of thing is inescapable. If it is inescapable, then what is this so-called creator actually doing? It sounds like existence and life have their own rules that have nothing to do with a creator. What does the creator do in that case? Just reflect on it and you'll see the creator idea is either superfluous, or involves you in positing creator beings that are extraordinarily sadistic.

We are biologically programmed to believe in creators and entities behind any actions we see. Studies of young children demonstrate this. That's all that is going on in your idea.

 

[duager]

It seems to me that we exist on Earth not merely as separate souls. All living beings are part of a single informational field. If we exist here at all, it is more likely for purposes unknown to us—purposes of this unified mind or informational field.

Accordingly, if “reincarnation” does exist, it probably enriches not us as individuals, but this “unified mind” through experience. I do not believe that a human soul can reincarnate into some kind of “higher being” or become an “angel” or a “demon.”

 

[akenu]

I specifically brought up the wasp larvae slowly devouring another creature while alive for a reason. What explanation is there for it if there's a creator? You say that sort of thing is inescapable. If it is inescapable, then what is this so-called creator actually doing? It sounds like existence and life have their own rules that have nothing to do with a creator. What does the creator do in that case? Just reflect on it and you'll see the creator idea is either superfluous, or involves you in positing creator beings that are extraordinarily sadistic.

We are biologically programmed to believe in creators and entities behind any actions we see. Studies of young children demonstrate this. That's all that is going on in your idea.

That's pretty much the concept of Demiurge in Gnosticism.

 

[Suayakoat]

@Beyond Everything the answer to your query is hidden in understanding existence and the query themselves! As I say a Creator is forced to let some things He doesn't like slip into existence in order to make it real. That has everything to do with existential friction and the nature of reality. Everything that exists must conform to the laws of logic. And the most basic of those laws is that non-existence cannot non-exist. It means non-existence itself creates existence by not having any barriers to itself unraveling against itself. Thus, any system of rules that is congruent with this principle is an actual formula of an Universe that does exists. (I can go on a huge rant here how this applies to different cases, for example the mathematical Universe where these claims solve centuries old problems in the foundations of mathematics and force out inconsistencies like Godel's incompleteness theorems but that is not the purpose here-right here and now I want to teach you some basic existential science!) That ultimately means you don't get a perfect system, just a logical one. And that applies for any kind of being no matter how powerful it is. Thus, when you introduce any kind of positivity in your system, like joy for example, you must balance it out with negativity. LOGIC DEMANDS IT! It is not a choice for the part of your Creator-it is a constraint put there by existence itself! This is how pain, and sorrow, and ultimately suffering arise. Not as a willful feature of the system, but as a measure of the counterpoint to its joy, and happiness, and ultimately-its positivity! You want to have joy and happiness-then contend with pain and sorrow-that is the payoff for the existential friction that existence itself creates. This is why there will never be "perfect" Universes where only positivity exists and this is also why the Creator must create as much negativity as He does positivity-it's all for the sake of the existential equation that we all exist under!

 

[Beyond Everything]

I want to teach you some basic existential science!)

You've done no such thing. You've simply juggled some words as if they were physical properties that are discretely measurable then stated -based on absolutely nothing- that you're obeying logic.

 

[Suayakoat]

There is knowledge far deeper than anything this civilization has ever has its meager intelligence gazed upon and I have seen it all! That's what I'm trying to convey here and instead of actually trying to learn something you refuse it as a blind man refuses to acknowledge the existence of the Sun...how pathetic! You really speak volumes of the hubris and ignorance of the people of this day and age.

P.S.. They are not physical (whatever that word may mean in your mind) but existential properties and they are not measurable but only perceivable-if you want to understand the reason behind the existence of this existence I beg you to actually open your mind to the possibility of logic being not a mere tool for asserting the validity of statements but of perceiving the mode of existence itself. And btw do not try to limit logic by laws like the excluded middle or identity but let it take the shape it does have by freeing your mind to follow its flow. Only then can you access higher knowledge and actually hold what I'm trying to convey in here. You have waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much prejudices and misconceptions to even try walking the path of the absolute Truth if you continue stating petty perceptions of imposed ultimate universal evil as the definitive truth of reality and misidentifying the potential of your thought to grasp its ultimate form!

 

[Beyond Everything]

if you continue stating petty perceptions of imposed ultimate universal evil as the definitive truth of reality

I never once stated that. Like everything else, you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[HoldAll]

@HoldAll I believe we make our own destiny by persevering through difficulties and choosing harsh life over comforting death (as I said that is the only choice that matters in my own comments) therefore it's entirely up to us to choose whether we want to face the difficulties of our existence and continue it or do we wish for sweet bliss in non-existence. I understand my framework may be a little bit over-the-top but I feel like it explains everything very well. We are "rewarded" for putting up effort into bettering our existence by it becoming less challenging and actually pleasant after it. And it then requires us to put in some more effort to become even more pleasant and to conform to our own wishes. And this process can go forever and ever, as much as we desired, or, to put it more bluntly-as much as we are willing to tolerate it

You proceed from the assumption that you'll be able to continue where you left off in your next life, e.g. not reincarnate as a mother who has to take care of her three children while still mourning the death of the other two, who may be illiterate on top of it and not even remotely interested in the ideas you hold now. For many of us here, occultism is so attractive because it promises solutions to the ineffable puzzle that is the universe - which you seem to have worked out already. So much certainty… Have you ever investigated the question of free will, coming to different conclusions at different times? Your emphasis on choice rests on assumptions that you view as self-evident (benign creator god, an inviolable soul, the inherent justice of the workings of the universe, etc.), which thinkers have repeatedly called into question across time.

What you're describing is a personal belief system that you consider correct but you must concede that others see things differently. There are good grounds for nihilism, atheism, or pessimism that may not fit into your worldview, and you don't need to convince people to look at the bright side instead.

Unrelated to your posts in this thread but I always marvel at the sheer presumptuousness of mere mortals who promulgate 'universal laws' as if trying to make the world dance to their tune. "I think, therefore I am, and therefore everything has to work as I say!" Rubbish. Uncertainty leads to wisdom, philosphical certainty to stagnation.

 

[akenu]

There is knowledge far deeper than anything this civilization has ever has its meager intelligence gazed upon and I have seen it all! That's what I'm trying to convey here and instead of actually trying to learn something you refuse it as a blind man refuses to acknowledge the existence of the Sun...how pathetic! You really speak volumes of the hubris and ignorance of the people of this day and age.

P.S.. They are not physical (whatever that word may mean in your mind) but existential properties and they are not measurable but only perceivable-if you want to understand the reason behind the existence of this existence I beg you to actually open your mind to the possibility of logic being not a mere tool for asserting the validity of statements but of perceiving the mode of existence itself. And btw do not try to limit logic by laws like the excluded middle or identity but let it take the shape it does have by freeing your mind to follow its flow. Only then can you access higher knowledge and actually hold what I'm trying to convey in here. You have waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much prejudices and misconceptions to even try walking the path of the absolute Truth if you continue stating petty perceptions of imposed ultimate universal evil as the definitive truth of reality and misidentifying the potential of your thought to grasp its ultimate form!

Well, how many decades have you spent gathering this knowledge that you preach now?

Look, I have also been a Zelator at one point in time; I am sure @HoldAll used to be one, as well. It's a natural progression that people get overly excited and start preaching their universal truth. As time went on, I found out that it was neither universal nor the truth.

 

[Kepler]

I specifically brought up the wasp larvae slowly devouring another creature while alive for a reason. What explanation is there for it if there's a creator? You say that sort of thing is inescapable. If it is inescapable, then what is this so-called creator actually doing? It sounds like existence and life have their own rules that have nothing to do with a creator. What does the creator do in that case? Just reflect on it and you'll see the creator idea is either superfluous, or involves you in positing creator beings that are extraordinarily sadistic.

I don't use a transcendent model with an architect God(ess[es]) but another way of understanding that according to that system is that if your example isn't "good" for inhabitants in the grand scheme then Creation is finding this out through the process of life for Judgement.

A butterfly larvae devours itself.

Processes for biological life and consciousness to emerge upon self-sustaining organized solar and chemical reactions in cosmic imperative might be imperfect now, but refines the raw, reorganizes and becomes more. Viewed as Judgement or natural selection is important to consider as a good theory shouldn't have to assume a Creator, but shouldn't rule it out either.

We are biologically programmed to believe in creators and entities behind any actions we see. Studies of young children demonstrate this. That's all that is going on in your idea.

Instinctual teleology may be natural part of recognizing life's genuine connections to nature that would need further development and refinement for the fallibilist to reach truer conclusions and shouldn't be dismissed or overstated to suit a final conclusion.

 

[Suayakoat]

Well, I guess I should tone down my exclamations a little bit. I might have overstepped myself a little bit with the praise of the civilization I was part of in previous lifetimes in comparison with this one but I continue to stand behind my statements. I just kind of got too emotional about it and wrote too much. For which I'm now sorry.

Now, on the topic. I don't claim my information comes from channeling and memories alone thou these (especially the last one) are my main methods of reaching it. It all started about 15 years ago when I started remembering previous lifetimes. Later I got into contact with immaterial entities, too. And little by little, over the years, I began receiving more and more information about the structure of this Universe and the laws of reality themselves. But besides purely memory or communication the knowledge I received also has its "internal structure" of a sort. It means things in itself can be proven from prior statements just like mathematical theorems are proven from axioms. This is another reason why I believe in it so hard. It's simply logical. Beyond that I know my feelings and experiences associated in receiving it. This is why I have no doubt in what I know and, as you call me, I'm such a Zelator when it comes to it. That's my story in short. I'm sorry if any of you (I mean the commentators above) are caught in doubt and disbelief but I have seen the truth, in a way, and I can not just pretend all things are bleak and unmnemonic any longer. At least, that's the hill I will die on in this lifetimes.

And finally, as long as skepticism, nihilism, pessimism, and all the other in this company are concerned I see them just as nothing but part of the "cloud" of disbelief. No, not mere disbelief in a particular religion, ideology, or just magical belief system, but disbelief in existence itself. I see them as nothing but presumptions of an ultimate inability to understand reality and the replacement of it with man-made "shortcuts" for knowledge that people are too afraid, blocked or in some other way disabling themselves of grasping. And that is not the path to Truth (in my modest opinion itself) but to self-approved annihilation. I see it as such: A soul which doesn't care about the Truth any more is one bound to annihilate itself. And all those feelings and states you described are all but the characteristics of a soul that made such a choice. Well, I made the opposite one-I want to expand till infinity and this is why I preach what I do. You may not like it. You are free to do so. But don't pretend it is not true simply because it's not your path. Please.