What happens to an ‘old soul’ after many reincarnations?

[Beyond Everything]

I already laid down my arguments against such a point of view. Please, address them. I don't care if it's your own personal view or the standpoint of a major religion. I think it's wrong and I explained why I think that is the case. So, if you want us to continue our discussion, please, address my counterarguments to this position.

You didn't make an argument, you simply said you didn't understand , you don't find, you think one is more satisfactory etc. That's not an argument, that's just your personal incredulity and emotions, based in not having studied a different viewpoint, which is what I recommended for you to do.

In any event, none of this is provable and veers into metapuke - however my views are largely based on a very long time of serious esoteric work. Not my 'feelings' or what sounds 'good' in my head.

 

[Suayakoat]

And my views are based on years upon years of practice in remembering previous lifetimes, seeing future incarnations and, yes, i did that too, talking with eterical entities to reach where I am. All that time and effort the train of thought is the same-one soul possessing many bodies lives through many reincarnation cycles to face the ultimate choice-to merge with its Creator or to become one. That is what I believe in and my practice have proven to me that is the truth. (I bolded it all intentionally.) So, when you tell me to go and look into some religions that have a completely different and you add in very long time of serious esoteric work I am obliged to resent and present a counterargument. If you think I haven't done enough work on this question, then I will tell you are simply wrong!

Now about the issue-aside from the fact that when you recover your memory from past lifetimes, or peek into future ones you just feel it 100% that it is your own free will in control and your own character on the line-the one soul in many bodies perspective provides a simpler and more consistent with reality explanation for the processing of the karma generated by a single entity-the soul, rather than have to rely on an elaborate scheme of births of different consciousnesses born throughout time to enact a single karmic stream. Plus, it also adds on clarity, consistency and fairness to the exposure of the single soul to reality and better explains its path from emergence to exit out of the Universe or merger with its Creator. This is why I stick by my words and my comments already made in this thread. Now, the burden of proof is up to you to show why the perspective of a single soul in many bodies throughout its development is wrong and what "esoteric work" can produce an honorable replacement for it?

 

[Beyond Everything]

Now, the burden of proof is up to you

lol I don't think you understand the concept of 'burden of proof'. Your position is not the 'default' position by any stretch, therefore a different position doesn't demand more evidence than the zero you yourself have presented.

But if we want to look at evidence, the fact that the human population has exploded from miniscule to billions is evidence against what you're saying

 

[Suayakoat]

But if we want to look at evidence, the fact that the human population has exploded from miniscule to billions is evidence against what you're saying

How is that so?

 

[Beyond Everything]

How is that so?

A clearer piece of evidence against your idea that free will constitutes the incarnational process would be any starving baby in the third world. What possible developmental gain is there in that? lol But your position is incoherent anyway- you believe in free will instituting the process but also karma.

Esoterically, I already stated the reality- a human must create/transform into a higher subtle body, and this is accomplished by esoteric work (and a great deal of luck if another higher- developed being takes an interest in you). Without some significant esoteric development, you're gone, you're toast. What remains is some energetic remnants which go on to constitute things like so-called ghosts, and so-called past life memories in other people...and there is no 'creator', that's a primitive anthropomorphic belief, the universe comes about due to process and forces. Not some godly brain that decided to include children starving to death.

 

[Suayakoat]

@Beyond Everything ,wow, your ignorance is indeed overwhelming! If you have done true esoteric work you would know nothing in the Universe "just" disappears and what we perceive as our Soul continues on a journey from and back to the Source uninterrupted on and on for eons until it either merges with it or becomes a new Source. That is the Great Circle of Life and we are all just specks of it. Your position of disappearance and a need for something "developed" as you put it to take an interest in you so you could continue your path is nothing but a position of fear. And all fear can do is always the same-cloud the truth and twist it for the consciousness to hide into convincing lies that take away your own control over your destiny and replace it with existential uncertainty with feels like you have no power over your own choices. Been there, done that, not a nice place to be in, and most of all-a place full of lies and far away from the truth about your powerful Self. Just try to walk pass your existential dread and you may find it all was just your own mind trying to delude you from the truth of being by choosing a suitable lie.

And as far as starving children are concerned they are the clearest evidence for karma, more than anything else. For why should something you perceive as innocent be suffering if not for karma they have committed in their past lives or are about to commit in their future ones? It IS karma in action for them. They face this uneasy fate precisely because they are in alignment with deeds that require such an outcome. It's precisely karma that explains their condition more than anything else if taken at face value. But what people are doing is they aren't taking their condition at face value-they are trying to blame the completely fair and balanced karmic system for their condition and that is wherein distortions occur. It's not the system's fault they have committed (or are about to commit) actions that garner them life in misery, it's their own and what they should do to deal with such a destiny isn't to blame the world for their misfortune and beg for mercy to everyone but rather look inside themselves, remember their past lives or look at the trajectories of their future ones, and do some inner work to grow out of the behavioral patterns that put them in that situation to begin with. That's my advice for starving children and as you can see it comes directly from a belief in the karmic system, not a denial of it. Just do your part in making the world a better place, no matter what is your condition and fate will balance out your contribution with a suitable reward back at you. But I doubt too many people are willing to see reality for what it is. Complaining and victim blaming are just so much much easier, aren't they?

 

[Ohana]

And as far as starving children are concerned they are the clearest evidence for karma, more than anything else. For why should something you perceive as innocent be suffering if not for karma they have committed in their past lives or are about to commit in their future ones? It IS karma in action for them. They face this uneasy fate precisely because they are in alignment with deeds that require such an outcome. It's precisely karma that explains their condition more than anything else if taken at face value. actions that garner them life in misery, it's their own and what they should do to deal with such a destiny isn't to blame the world for their misfortune and beg for mercy to everyone but rather look inside themselves, remember their past lives or look at the trajectories of their future ones, and do some inner work to grow out of the behavioral patterns that put them in that situation to begin with. That's my advice for starving children and as you can see it comes directly from a belief in the karmic system, not a denial of it. Just do your part in making the world a better place, no matter what is your condition and fate will balance out your contribution with a suitable reward back at you. But I doubt too many people are willing to see reality for what it is. Complaining and victim blaming are just so much much easier.

I don't have any advice for starving children. If I see someone starving I'll give them money or food. I think giving them food will allow them to be in a better mindset to do inner work.

Thought there might be some meditative practices to conserve energy. But I'm still going to give them food because that just feels like a good thing to do. And within the karma framework I also win by doing this because good karma

 

[Suayakoat]

I'm not preventing anyone from doing charity, just pointing out, a rather inconvenient truth, but truth nonetheless, that there might be a deeper reason for them to be starving and that reason has everything to do with their behavior, so, they should look around for the root of their misery and not just blame the entire karmic system for it. I found the karmic system entirely self-consistent and fair, so, the suffering starving children are experiencing should have as much to do with their own behavior as with the work of others.

P.S. I know that is an unpopular opinion to hold, but I do think it's justified in the context of the Universe balancing out everything within itself.

 

[System Error Message]

Have you played nobody wants to die? Jokes aside there is no limit to the age of a soul and reincarnation. A soul can "die" from being drained over time. Souls dont have the same thing bodies and the mental/astral/energy component has. Meaning souls dont think, they just be. You can think of every incarnation of an aspect to the identity of the soul.

@Beyond Everything how do you know there is no Soul and no reincarnation? I can quickly give you a very powerful counterargument to your thesis-what constitutes the Soul and what reincarnates through the lifetimes is essentially the same thing-a free will! There is only one will in many bodies and these different bodies are only but its different stages of development. That is how the Soul and its evolution are best explained-if there was no Soul and we were only "an energy complex" how do you explain karma and Soul evolution? How does your model fits in the Path of consciousness through the material world? What creates, and erases, the new consciousnesses according to your model and where does their karma goes? The one will in many bodies bound by the laws of cause and effect-which manifest themselves as karma is the best explanation for what we observe and any, and all, candidates for better explanations need to handle those questions first-how do you reconcile a very limited existence of consciousness bound to a body with the karma it generates, and how does the evident existence of personalities on different levels of their spiritual development occurs without a reincarnation? Please, answer those questions if you still think your explanation is the best one.

As far as the topic is concerned-I have my personal believes about the subject I wish to share here-I think the oldest Souls ultimately always encounter The Choice-the greatest choice any soul stumbles upon and the one which ultimately paves the way for its final destination. This is the choice as to whether to merge with the Source, or become a Source themselves. This is what the final evolution of the Soul manifests into and it's essentially the mechanism for the removal of really really old Souls from this form of existence. If the Soul chooses to merge with the Source its free will disappears into its own and then its existence as an independent entity ceases. In other terms the Soul is dead to the world but it had managed to achieve the highest level of bliss and maturity accessible to it in this Universe and thus it is very happy that it finally doesn't need to do anything else but submit to the will of the Creator. On the other hand if the Soul wishes to become a Creator itself than it must take up the mantle of the heaviest mission available to Souls in this Universe-how to choose a plan for another Universe itself and become the Creator in its own right. And the existence of these two options for very old souls is the reason why there are no too old Souls which would tend to stick around here, in the "lower" dimensions. The oldest ones have either chosen to merge or to become Creators and this is where they have gone while leaving us with the "kindergarten" of Souls, so to speak.

I sure do remember the past. Things become clearer once you can see. Its not just physical forms like humans but there are many beings in existence that their bodies simply arent physical but different in nature, and even their souls can be different. the variety of creation is actually huge that there are also beings without souls.

the soul is the very basis or foundation of a person. its easy to think that its a single will, or a single dreamer, or god that there is no soul, but thats not the case. I've seen the flow of souls before, the pile of inactive or souls that had yet to incarnate. You might consider this my gnosis but this is my experience from sight.

For an incarnation to happen, the soul and body must match, though the same soul can live through multiple species, even in other worlds too. Though it is the soul that chooses the body or life. Sometimes a soul will reincarnate due to a need or urgency, The soul becomes much clearer in some practices in the occult that focus on the basis of the self, developing ESP, realisation of the self and connecting with the world. Religion believes in the soul but to me the major religions are basically a scam from entities to get you to just hand over your soul to them, based on their own verses and what they would mean supernaturally. So one argument from me about the soul is, if it doesnt exist, why the religion and the ask to give yourself over to that deity in scripture?